Celtics

[BGesus4]

The fact that you can't say that the warriors are an elite defensive team but also bring up the Heat is comedy. At least be somewhat objective.

Well, I’m not a Celtics fan. It’s my opinion based on what I saw. I’m sorry it weighs so heavily on you. Are you a warriors fan?

 

[auror]

Warriors defense was the difference. They schematically closed off the paint (usually helping with 2 long guys on drives who were aggressively diving/reaching for the ball against Brown/Tatum), while simultaneously (for the most part) not allowing the same open looks they had from kickouts it in Game 1+3.

I'd love to see a breakdown from a coach, because I feel like the Celtics didn't make enough adjustments in games 5/6. They got hot in the 3Q in game 5, but weren't really successful schematically.

Meanwhile, Warriors were getting Curry iso'd on Horford in space with no rim protection all 4Q. Celtics tried to double once and got burned for a wide open corner 3. The space difference was insane, and the Celtics had a lot of success with having wide open shooters earlier in the series and all playoffs long.

 

[Matrim55]

Warriors defense was the difference. They schematically closed off the paint (usually helping with 2 long guys on drives who were aggressively diving/reaching for the ball against Brown/Tatum), while simultaneously (for the most part) not allowing the same open looks they had from kickouts it in Game 1+3.

This is correct. The biggest weakness in Tatum's game right now is his handle against blitzing doubles -- it's just not tight enough to split them. Same thing with Brown. The way to beat blitzes is to either pass the ball early and catch them in no man's land or to be quick & tight enough off the dribble to just split them. The Dubs were able to account for the former by having a bunch of S-Tier defenders (Draymond, Klay, Payton, Wiggins) on the court in the biggest moments, which allowed them to help way off of Smart & Horford but still recover.

For the latter, Tatum & Brown tried but they're just not tight enough. So that meant GSW were never getting into frantic rotations, and all their help-and-recover moments were super manageable. (Kemba, for what it's worth, absolutely annihilates blitzing doubles).

Ime's biggest adjustment was going to PP early and hoping he'd get hot. But he never got his confidence up this series, and especially in Game 6 he looked a little bit overawed by the moment. Once the Dubs realized they didn't have to be in his shorts, it was kind of over.

Think back to the great Celtics quarters earlier in the series. It wasn't primarily Tatum & Brown running wild, it was guys like White, Smart, Al, PP and Grant punishing GSW for blitzing those guys. Once those guys stopped hitting shots... that was that.

 

[Dean Wormer]

I'm reminding myself that Tatum is just 24 years old. At 24, Curry had only cracked 20 PPG once, and hadn't made it to a western conference finals yet. Got bounced in the first round of the playoffs.

The fact that Jaylen Brown (25) and Robert Williams (24) showed up this big in a finals series is really impressive. Even Smart (28) has another 5 years in his prime... though he didn't show up this time around.

Still sorely disappointed.

Really excited about Ime as a coach though.

A healthy Robert Williams is beastly. Love his defense, but you have to offset Smart’s lack of offense with a dependable sub off the bench, like Poole for GS.
Jaylen and Tatum are good enough to win a ship, but they need help. And I think Jayson played hurt and just wore down. Good job, good effort.

 

[superjohn]

If they stay healthy the Warriors should be beastly next season. Klay more back to what he was before his injury (it seems to always be year 2 where you really feel back) a healthy James Wiseman, and an expanded role for Kuminga. That team will remain the elite of the elites in terms of shooting, be even more scary defensively, will have some low post scoring, and much more size and athleticism than this squad. They must be giddy about the versatility they'll have next year.

 

[polycom]

Well, I’m not a Celtics fan. It’s my opinion based on what I saw. I’m sorry it weighs so heavily on you. Are you a warriors fan?

No not even close to a warriors fan. It doesn't way so heavily on me you wanted to dance on my head, and I wasn't going to stand for it.

 

[polycom]

This is correct. The biggest weakness in Tatum's game right now is his handle against blitzing doubles -- it's just not tight enough to split them. Same thing with Brown. The way to beat blitzes is to either pass the ball early and catch them in no man's land or to be quick & tight enough off the dribble to just split them. The Dubs were able to account for the former by having a bunch of S-Tier defenders (Draymond, Klay, Payton, Wiggins) on the court in the biggest moments, which allowed them to help way off of Smart & Horford but still recover.

For the latter, Tatum & Brown tried but they're just not tight enough. So that meant GSW were never getting into frantic rotations, and all their help-and-recover moments were super manageable. (Kemba, for what it's worth, absolutely annihilates blitzing doubles).

Ime's biggest adjustment was going to PP early and hoping he'd get hot. But he never got his confidence up this series, and especially in Game 6 he looked a little bit overawed by the moment. Once the Dubs realized they didn't have to be in his shorts, it was kind of over.

Think back to the great Celtics quarters earlier in the series. It wasn't primarily Tatum & Brown running wild, it was guys like White, Smart, Al, PP and Grant punishing GSW for blitzing those guys. Once those guys stopped hitting shots... that was that.

Brown not being able to go left really at all is also a huge issue.

 

[husky429]

If they stay healthy the Warriors should be beastly next season. Klay more back to what he was before his injury (it seems to always be year 2 where you really feel back) a healthy James Wiseman, and an expanded role for Kuminga. That team will remain the elite of the elites in terms of shooting, be even more scary defensively, will have some low post scoring, and much more size and athleticism than this squad. They must be giddy about the versatility they'll have next year.

They'll be good until Curry gets old. His gravity on the court just changes the game. He doesn't rely on size or athleticism... that shooting could be good for another 5 or more years if he stays healthy.

 

[BGesus4]

No not even close to a warriors fan. It doesn't way so heavily on me you wanted to dance on my head, and I wasn't going to stand for it.

Way to really put your foot down! Great job!

 

[MexicoHusky]

Celtics definitely grew this year. Tatum in particular. Not the best showing in the finals. Hopefully Tatum and Brown tighten up their handle in the years to come. No shame.

 

[polycom]

Way to really put your foot down! Great job!

Do better next time...

 

[superjohn]

They'll be good until Curry gets old. His gravity on the court just changes the game. He doesn't rely on size or athleticism... that shooting could be good for another 5 or more years if he stays healthy.

It's amazing how they went from the best team in basketball, to the worst team in basketball and back to the best team in basketball while sticking with their plan. They're positioned incredibly well going forward because of it...

I'm interested in what the Celtics do with Smart, he's really good but they don't have any point guard play. Tatum, Brown, and Robert Williams is a pretty filthy core...

I'm really interested in what the Mavs do to get Luka some talent, they started with Christian Wood which seems like a good start...

Also really interested in what the Nuggets do. They seem stuck because they're paying ungodly sums for Murray and Porter Jr. who are always injured and Aaron Gordon who is blah. With the help of Murray and Porter Jr. the team would be nasty but you don't want to run the risk of wasting Jokic's prime on waiting and praying on injury prone players to stay healthy.

 

[HuskyHawk]

It's amazing how they went from the best team in basketball, to the worst team in basketball and back to the best team in basketball while sticking with their plan. They're positioned incredibly well going forward because of it...

I'm interested in what the Celtics do with Smart, he's really good but they don't have any point guard play. Tatum, Brown, and Robert Williams is a pretty filthy core...

I'm really interested in what the Mavs do to get Luka some talent, they started with Christian Wood which seems like a good start...

Also really interested in what the Nuggets do. They seem stuck because they're paying ungodly sums for Murray and Porter Jr. who are always injured and Aaron Gordon who is blah. With the help of Murray and Porter Jr. the team would be nasty but you don't want to run the risk of wasting Jokic's prime on waiting and praying on injury prone players to stay healthy.

Part of the problems the Celtics had behind Smart was that Pritchard just choked in the moment. Regular season shot 41% from 3, efg% of 56% and a good A to TO ratio. He looked the part of a backup PG with more shooting ability than Smart has. Despite getting good open looks, he just missed everything, especially in the finals.

They have an MLE to play with. I'm also not ready to give up on Nesmith. Kid was a shooter coming out of Vandy and his defense has become very good, impressive shot blocker as a guard. But shot 27% from 3 this year. If he can fix his shooting, he's exactly what they need.

Payton Pritchard Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Draft Status and more | Basketball-Reference.com

Checkout the latest stats of Payton Pritchard. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, draft status, shoots, school and more on Basketball-Reference.com

www.basketball-reference.com

 

[aceboon]

special stuff from Draymond and from the Warriors overall, yes the Celtics have issues with ballhandling and decision making but alot of credit needs to be given to GSW's defense. They were #1 in the league before Draymond's back injury.

 

[Matrim55]

They have an MLE to play with. I'm also not ready to give up on Nesmith. Kid was a shooter coming out of Vandy and his defense has become very good, impressive shot blocker as a guard. But shot 27% from 3 this year. If he can fix his shooting, he's exactly what they need.

They have a MLE and four TPEs: 17.2m, 9.7m, 6.9m and 3.8m. So they have the chance to add a bunch of significant contributors and remake that bench if they want to.

My guess is they use the big TPE to acquire a shooter -- someone who works off the ball, and that other teams will have to chase around screens every second he's on the court. Duncan Robinson fits but is too expensive. Luke Kennard is ideal, and given that he's no better than 9th on the Clippers depth chart, and completely redundant with Powell on the roster, and that the Clips are massively into both the luxury tax and repeater tax, my guess is he'd be get-able for a future first.

Getting Kennard (or someone in that salary range) would put the Celtics way, way into the tax, and Wyc's not going to be like Ballmer or Lacob in that way, not even with a contender. So my guess is that Nesmith (who I still have stock in) and Theis would both be traded out into someone's cap space. That'd cost second-rounders, most likely, but would also open up two decent-sized (4m and 9m) TPEs they could roll into NEXT summer.

Replacing Theis, who was mostly unplayable in the postseason, would be easy -- get someone like Biyombo. Then the other piece the team would need is an explosive ball-handler who can put pressure on the rim. Devon Carter would be a good example.

At that point, this is the 11-man depth chart that'd put the Celtics into the tax by about $7m:

PG: Smart, White, Carter
SG: Brown, Kennard, Pritchard
SF: Tatum
PF: Horford, Grant
C: Timelord, Biyombo

I don't know if that's going to be good enough to get over the hump -- the Nets, Dubs, Bucks, Clips and Nuggets all have potential to be absolutely massive next year. Bet it's a more talented and explosive group than this year, especially if the guys who matter most continue on their linear improvement.

 

[auror]

They have a MLE and four TPEs: 17.2m, 9.7m, 6.9m and 3.8m. So they have the chance to add a bunch of significant contributors and remake that bench if they want to.

My guess is they use the big TPE to acquire a shooter -- someone who works off the ball, and that other teams will have to chase around screens every second he's on the court. Duncan Robinson fits but is too expensive. Luke Kennard is ideal, and given that he's no better than 9th on the Clippers depth chart, and completely redundant with Powell on the roster, and that the Clips are massively into both the luxury tax and repeater tax, my guess is he'd be get-able for a future first.

Getting Kennard (or someone in that salary range) would put the Celtics way, way into the tax, and Wyc's not going to be like Ballmer or Lacob in that way, not even with a contender. So my guess is that Nesmith (who I still have stock in) and Theis would both be traded out into someone's cap space. That'd cost second-rounders, most likely, but would also open up two decent-sized (4m and 9m) TPEs they could roll into NEXT summer.

Replacing Theis, who was mostly unplayable in the postseason, would be easy -- get someone like Biyombo. Then the other piece the team would need is an explosive ball-handler who can put pressure on the rim. Devon Carter would be a good example.

At that point, this is the 11-man depth chart that'd put the Celtics into the tax by about $7m:

PG: Smart, White, Carter
SG: Brown, Kennard, Pritchard
SF: Tatum
PF: Horford, Grant
C: Timelord, Biyombo

I don't know if that's going to be good enough to get over the hump -- the Nets, Dubs, Bucks, Clips and Nuggets all have potential to be absolutely massive next year. Bet it's a more talented and explosive group than this year, especially if the guys who matter most continue on their linear improvement.

They need a Horford replacement, too. I don't know if Grant is at his ceiling, but they're going to need another small ball 5 that can guard in space and protect the rim while stretching the floor on offense, if not this year then the next.

 

[Matrim55]

They need a Horford replacement, too. I don't know if Grant is at his ceiling, but they're going to need another small ball 5 that can guard in space and protect the rim while stretching the floor on offense, if not this year then the next.

Yeah, but those guys don't grow on trees. There's a reason Al's making 27m/yr.

Anyway, best comp for him right now is probably Larry Nance, Jr. But given his age, his salary and the fact that Al still clearly has a couple of years left in him, I'm not sure it makes sense to go for him at this point.

 

[auror]

Yeah, but those guys don't grow on trees. There's a reason Al's making 27m/yr.

Anyway, best comp for him right now is probably Larry Nance, Jr. But given his age, his salary and the fact that Al still clearly has a couple of years left in him, I'm not sure it makes sense to go for him at this point.

I'm a bit wary of a rapid decline from Al. He's 36 and was somewhat inconsistent in the playoffs game to game (especially in the rounds that played games more frequently). Inconsistency is the first stage before drop-off. It's important to fill out the bench, but he's a starter.

Since they don't grow on trees, you have to prioritize finding one, and unfortunately they don't have much draft pick capital anymore.

 

[HuskyHawk]

They have a MLE and four TPEs: 17.2m, 9.7m, 6.9m and 3.8m. So they have the chance to add a bunch of significant contributors and remake that bench if they want to.

My guess is they use the big TPE to acquire a shooter -- someone who works off the ball, and that other teams will have to chase around screens every second he's on the court. Duncan Robinson fits but is too expensive. Luke Kennard is ideal, and given that he's no better than 9th on the Clippers depth chart, and completely redundant with Powell on the roster, and that the Clips are massively into both the luxury tax and repeater tax, my guess is he'd be get-able for a future first.

Getting Kennard (or someone in that salary range) would put the Celtics way, way into the tax, and Wyc's not going to be like Ballmer or Lacob in that way, not even with a contender. So my guess is that Nesmith (who I still have stock in) and Theis would both be traded out into someone's cap space. That'd cost second-rounders, most likely, but would also open up two decent-sized (4m and 9m) TPEs they could roll into NEXT summer.

Replacing Theis, who was mostly unplayable in the postseason, would be easy -- get someone like Biyombo. Then the other piece the team would need is an explosive ball-handler who can put pressure on the rim. Devon Carter would be a good example.

At that point, this is the 11-man depth chart that'd put the Celtics into the tax by about $7m:

PG: Smart, White, Carter
SG: Brown, Kennard, Pritchard
SF: Tatum
PF: Horford, Grant
C: Timelord, Biyombo

I don't know if that's going to be good enough to get over the hump -- the Nets, Dubs, Bucks, Clips and Nuggets all have potential to be absolutely massive next year. Bet it's a more talented and explosive group than this year, especially if the guys who matter most continue on their linear improvement.

I’m watching Pat Connaughton as the possible shooter off the bench. Seems like a fit to me, and making the Bucks weaker is a win.

As for a big, Biyombo wouldn’t cost much but I’m not sure what is needed. I’m more concerned with backing up Rob with a better rim protector. Al is starting at the 4 right now. They need to get creative to keep Al.

I sure hope they can hold on to Nesmith. If he could figure out his shooting he’d solve a lot of problems on the bench

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Is this the part of the offseason where Celtics fans convince themselves that good players will come to Boston for less money and playing time just to play for the Celtics?

Let's see some completely unrealistic trade proposals while we are at it.

 

[Waquoit]

Is this the part of the offseason where Celtics fans convince themselves that good players will come to Boston for less money and playing time just to play for the Celtics?

Maybe they'll want to be "a part of something"?

But seriously, I think it's tougher to bust stones about the Celtics with Stevens in charge. I think he has a plan and will be proactive. Ainge was lost ever since he drafted Tatum.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Maybe they'll want to be "a part of something"?

But seriously, I think it's tougher to bust stones about the Celtics with Stevens in charge. I think he has a plan and will be proactive. Ainge was lost ever since he drafted Tatum.

I don't have a lot of options for teams to mock right now until the Knicks blow the draft and free agency, again. Then we can focus on the Knicks.

 

[Waquoit]

I don't have a lot of options for teams to mock right now until the Knicks blow the draft and free agency, again. Then we can focus on the Knicks.

That will be true bipartisanship.

 

[Matrim55]

Maybe they'll want to be "a part of something"?

But seriously, I think it's tougher to bust stones about the Celtics with Stevens in charge. I think he has a plan and will be proactive. Ainge was lost ever since he drafted Tatum.

After drafting Tatum he signed two all-stars, traded for a third, drafted a fourth starter and two crucial bench pieces.

Really weird take.

 

[Dean Wormer]

After drafting Tatum he signed two all-stars, traded for a third, drafted a fourth starter and two crucial bench pieces.

Really weird take.

Ainge did a very good job as GM, just burnt himself out is all. As a Knicks fan I'd trade him for our brain trust any day. And Stevens is a basketball savant so it doesn't look like the Celtics are trending anywhere but up.