Calhoun never lost to teams like this

[CAST-BONE]

Um...actually, no he didn't. He had an incredibly small share of those losses in 26 years. For a program like UConn, a WTF loss is a non conference defeat to a non P5 (or an unranked non P-5 team - so NOT like Gonzaga or Calipari's Memphis teams). Sure, there are in- conference games lost to a decided underdog, but that happens from time to time everywhere.

In 26 regular seasons, he had 8 of those with 3 (Yale, Hartford and BU) occurring in his first year in Storrs (two on the road). The other 5 are Ohio in '94, Dayton in '01 (with Caron sitting out), St. Bonnies in '02, Umess in '05 and UCF in '12. Four. One of those (SB) was at home. KO has 4 (New Mexico, Yale, Wagner and Northeastern). Three at Gampel.

So no, JC won the games he was supposed to. In fact he was more uptight and intense in those games than many/most of the top 10 matchups. He wouldn't let his team use talent as an excuse. He believed that those games set the foundation for the rest of the season. We are a long, long way from those days.

If Jim Calhoun is a top 5-10 coach all time in college then why are we trying to compare Kevin Ollie to him? Ollie became our head coach with no such experience, UConn may never had a chance to hire Jim Calhoun if Northeastern fired him after he only posted 3 winning records in his first 7 seasons; Patience young grasshopper.

 

[Da_Aisijimo_Gou]

... nor did any UConn coach take over a team with the death penalty. With that said, I really think Ollie's problems are personal more than personnel.

True dat ... nor did any UConn coach take over a team with that team's talent and help guide it to a national championship. 2 sides exist with most coins; perhaps personal issues exist individually, within the roster, coaches, etc. Same story applies, just win baby. Go Huskies!

 

[Sonova]

If Jim Calhoun is a top 5-10 coach all time in college then why are we trying to compare Kevin Ollie to him? Ollie became our head coach with no such experience, UConn may never had a chance to hire Jim Calhoun if Northeastern fired him after he only posted 3 winning records in his first 7 seasons; Patience young grasshopper.

Kevin Ollie doesn't have to be Jim Calhoun. But he has to be good enough to keep UConn as an elite program. Sixth place finishes in the American won't do that. The comparison was made that suggested that JC had similiar (more than his share of) losses as we've seen from KO. I completely disagree with that. If anything, we spent a quarter of a century being one of the few programs that never got the early season, out of nowhere (WTF) upset. For those of you old enough to remember, some of JC's most uncomfortable displays of "affection" and intensity were during the early season part of the schedule. People would offer wonder/cringe why he would be so upset up 20+ vs Coppin State...it's because he insisted that the team stay focused and that games like Wagner and Northeastern would create the habits and fundamentals that would be needed against better competition.

As for your comparison above, it's apples and oranges...the times were MUCH different then (as were the expectations and salaries). Jim Calhoun took over an independent Northeastern program that was making the move from Div 2 to Div 1. Kevin Ollie took over an established, elite program that had been to 2 Final Fours in the previous 4 years.

 

[CAST-BONE]

Kevin Ollie doesn't have to be Jim Calhoun. But he has to be good enough to keep UConn as an elite program. Sixth place finishes in the American won't do that. The comparison was made that suggested that JC had similiar (more than his share of) losses as we've seen from KO. I completely disagree with that. If anything, we spent a quarter of a century being one of the few programs that never got the early season, out of nowhere (WTF) upset. For those of you old enough to remember, some of JC's most uncomfortable displays of "affection" and intensity were during the early season part of the schedule. People would offer wonder/cringe why he would be so upset up 20+ vs Coppin State...it's because he insisted that the team stay focused and that games like Wagner and Northeastern would create the habits and fundamentals that would be needed against better competition.

As for your comparison above, it's apples and oranges...the times were MUCH different then (as were the expectations and salaries). Jim Calhoun took over an independent Northeastern program that was making the move from Div 2 to Div 1. Kevin Ollie took over an established, elite program that had been to 2 Final Fours in the previous 4 years.

I agree with you and wish Ollie displayed a bit more of JC's intensity, and he had his share dressdowns during losses in conference as well. I mean can you imagine what he said at half of the NC game vs Butler?
On the second point I think that the time and expectations are always relative. The Northeastern and UConn programs each faced challenges, they were just different types of challenges based on the prestige and history of each program. You highlighted Northeasterns challenges but didn't note UConn faced a tournament ban, recruiting on a 1 yr contract, no head coaching experience, and moving to a new shiity conference in Ollies 2nd and national title year. Again if 4 National Championships since 1999 hasn't built this Program enough equity to survive a few underperforming seasons then the ESPN propaganda machine is more real than I ever thought and we were doomed before we ever started.

 

[Sonova]

I agree with you and wish Ollie displayed a bit more of JC's intensity, and he had his share dressdowns during losses in conference as well. I mean can you imagine what he said at half of the NC game vs Butler?
On the second point I think that the time and expectations are always relative. The Northeastern and UConn programs each faced challenges, they were just different types of challenges based on the prestige and history of each program. You highlighted Northeasterns challenges but didn't note UConn faced a tournament ban, recruiting on a 1 yr contract, no head coaching experience, and moving to a new shiity conference in Ollies 2nd and national title year. Again if 4 National Championships since 1999 hasn't built this Program enough equity to survive a few underperforming seasons then the ESPN propaganda machine is more real than I ever thought and we were doomed before we ever started.

Fair enough on some level. I don't disagree that Ollie faced challenges...though I'd call them 1st world challenges in the game of college coaching. I'd just say that in today's world, at this level, no one cares that he had no head coaching experience or that he had a one year contract. By that I mean, what's the excuse now? Or last year? We're in year five. And we're playing in a league where those obstacles shouldn't be too much to overcome (especially) at this point. We're a 6th place, .500 team in the AAC with generally better talent, better pedigree/history , a bigger budget and now better facilities than (nearly) every other team in our conference. I'd have patience if I thought we were improving (even slowly) as a program or if Ollie was improving as a coach from KO's first year until now. We're not and he's not. And that should make all of us impatient and really nervous. We're not in the powerful Big East anymore where the stage was always big enough to sustain a middling year every now and then. If you put the last few years together, do you really think/see/sense that we're about to turn the corner and return to being in the national conversation? I sure don't. And I'm not reacting to just the start of this season...

 

[temery]

I don't disagree that Ollie faced challenges...though I'd call them 1st world challenges in the game of college coaching.

Duke and Kentucky have first world basketball problems. UConn has 2nd world problems in s 3rd world league.

 

[Leebo]

Lots of new faces come out of the woodworks when these things happen, I see.

 

[David 76]

I wish people would get over Ollie's facial expressions. I really don't think that is going to turn the tide for us.

 

[Sonova]

Duke and Kentucky have first world basketball problems. UConn has 2nd world problems in s 3rd world league.

Clever. But out of context. The original point that I was responding to was about Kevin Ollie's challenges (no head coaching experience, post season ban, move to AAC) in his first two years not UConn's current situation. Getting his first head coaching gig as the UConn coach after only couple of years of assistant experience at his alma mater coming off of 2 FFs, 1 NC in the previous four years and a team that would take him to an NC in his second year isn't a challenge of any world. It's like being the only winner in a giant powerball lottery of coaching.

 

[Palatine]

I wish people would get over Ollie's facial expressions. I really don't think that is going to turn the tide for us.

Body language is important. Ollie acts like a sad sack on the bench.

 

[temery]

Clever. But out of context. The original point that I was responding to was about Kevin Ollie's challenges (no head coaching experience, post season ban, move to AAC) in his first two years not UConn's current situation. Getting his first head coaching gig as the UConn coach after only couple of years of assistant experience at his alma mater coming off of 2 FFs, 1 NC in the previous four years and a team that would take him to an NC in his second year isn't a challenge of any world. It's like being the only winner in a giant powerball lottery of coaching.

Oh.

 

[temery]

I wish people would get over Ollie's facial expressions. I really don't think that is going to turn the tide for us.

It's a symptom, not the cause.

 

[Deadrody]

Wow, you guys don't remember the early years when they would lose to teams like: Hartford, Yale, BU, St Peters or go the season with 3 or 4 conference wins.

The early days ? Was that when the UConn was thought to be a major national program ? Uh, no.

You seriously cannot even consider ANY loss under Calhoun to be a "WTF" loss until at least 1988 or 1989, but I would say it had to be after 1990 at least.

 

[Danzz]

Calhoun had his share of bad losses. Every coach has them.

 

[Milo65]

Jim Calhoun is heads and shoulders a better coach. Ollie in my opinion is an excellent recruiter, with average coaching ability. Calhoun's teams did all of the little things, Defended, Rebounded, and were prepared for games. Ollie's teams do NOT, they have trouble rebounding, trouble defending the 3, and run very stagnant offensive sets. Ollie's teams have not figured out how to attack a zone because Ollie's offenses is an NBA isolation offense that is predicated by the ball handler having the ability to break down his man. This is difficult against the zone and even more difficult if you do not have Shabazz or Boat at the point. In 26 seasons at UConn Jim Calhoun had 6 WTF loses. 6!
'86-87 (First Year) Yale and BU
'93-94 Ohio
'00-01 Dayton- Dayton is a stretch as they have had good teams
'01-02 St. Bonaventure
'11-12 UCF


In 3+ seasons Kevin Ollie has already had 6 WTF loses and still hasn't beaten Houston. This isn't Phi Slamma Jamma either!

'13-14 Houston
'14-15 Yale, Houston
'15-16 Houston
'16-17 Wagner, Northeastern

Now with that being said, Ollie is one of a very few coaches that is able to recruit at a P5 level in this terrible conference. This team is very young and will grow. I'll take Ollie's ability to recruit any day, as even Jim Calhoun had some very tough seasons at Northeastern.

 

[UConn_Top_Dog]

I think many of you are missing the fact that college basketball is not the same sport it was 25-30 years ago. The players are bigger, stronger, quicker. The rules have been adjusted to favor the offense. And simply, there are more good skilled players now. The game has evolved. There is more parity now and games are not going to be as predictable. So one cannot just simply compare KO to Coach Calhoun. It's illogical.

 

[Sonova]

I think many of you are missing the fact that college basketball is not the same sport it was 25-30 years ago. The players are bigger, stronger, quicker. The rules have been adjusted to favor the offense. And simply, there are more good skilled players now. The game has evolved. There is more parity now and games are not going to be as predictable. So one cannot just simply compare KO to Coach Calhoun. It's illogical.

It seems to me that most are in violent agreement that JC and KO shouldn't be compared. Because they aren't in the same stratosphere of ability/talent. Not because of some different era theory. Jim Calhoun would win today. Just like K, Boeheim, Izzo, Pitino. Good coaches (and the aforementioned are beyond "good") adjust and if anything, their value increases. Their teams have an identity, they execute, they (generally) get the most out of their team based on its overall composition, and, the players get better under their tutelage. KO's teams have done none of that these last few years.

The good news is that Kevin Ollie doesn't have to be as good as Jim Calhoun. But he's just gotten out coached by coaches/programs that he does need to be better than. And coaches who make much less and have far less resources and talent. And that's a big problem. And that's been a somewhat subtle theme during KO's tenure. Guys like Larry Brown, Fran Dunphy, Mick Cronin and Kelvin Sampson to a lesser degree have outcoached him despite having less (in some cases) or comparable talent. And while the KO supporters will understandably point to Izzo twice, Billy Donovan twice, Jay Wright and John Calipari in his first two seasons, those are sure looking like the exception rather than the rule. He was running Jim Calhoun's schemes with Jim Calhoun's recruits and it showed. As he's shifted to his players and his schemes....

And sorry, I can't shake the statement that ere are more good skilled players today. Not in the college game in my opinion. Call me old school (or just old), but imho there were MANY more good, skilled players 10-20 years ago in college basketball (maybe even in pro basketball) than there are today. Look at the draft. You can't give away a second round pick anymore (sometimes even non lottery picks) because the talent is so watered down. Guys enter the draft with very little readiness for the NBA. Athletes in general (and in all sports) continue to get bigger, stronger, faster as a result of specialized training, nutrition, etc. but more good skilled players? Not to these eyes. Blame it on early entry. Blame it on AAU. Blame it on David Stern if you want. But the caliber of basketball from a fundamentals, skills and team aspect in the 80s, 90s and 00s is so above the product on the court today. And in the college ranks, the teams that we had that didn't make the final four in the 90s (94, 95, 96) and the 2000s (02, 06) would maybe run the table in today's day and age. Lots of schools could say that btw. The product, in general, is a far cry what it once was. Is there more parity? Sure but there's always more teams that are mediocre vs good/great in any era. And with good players leaving top programs early, mid and low major schools that have four year cores can compete. And, thankfully for the month of March, the NCAA tournament is a foolproof formula that benefits from parity and general mediocrity...unless excellence and a high level of play is what you base success and enetertainment value on.

 

[temery]

If Ollie can coach Calhoun's recruits to a national championship, but not his own, why isn't the problem his recruiting instead of coaching?

 

[Sonova]

If Ollie can coach Calhoun's recruits to a national championship, but not his own, why isn't the problem his recruiting instead of coaching?

I think the real question is, why did he abandon the Jim Calhoun system? He talks "UConn" like its an inherited culture. Culture is an output not an input. Jim Calhoun's UConn was a program with a culture of mental and physical toughness that existed in all of his teams (Some incredibly talented. Some not so much). People used to talk about UConn imposing its will on other teams. About playing hard for 40 minutes. About relentless defense. About all five guys crashing the glass. Practices and the intensity of them were legendary and were a part of almost every national broadcast as the announcers couldn't believe how hard the team would work on Fridays and shoot arounds etc. The rebounding drills alone were brutal...and as a result, we were a terrific tough-minded rebounding teams on BOTH ends of the floor. I recall more than one opposing coach and announcers saying that sometimes UConn's best offense was a missed shot because we ruthlessly attacked the glass. We set picks and guys ran off them. We were terrific going to the basket with contact. We practiced all of those things full speed every day. As a result, we were ready come gametime.

Watch us now. We don't attack the rim with contact - we look to avoid it. We don't set screens. We don't fight over the top of screens on defense (which is why we give up a ton of open three point attempts). We don't really play at full speed beyond a fast break. And we sure don't rebound...in fact we retreat on the offensive glass unless we're in a desperate point in the game. And we don't get in good position on the defensive end - count the number of actual box outs next game.

Kevin's style Is an NBA approach (today, it's euphemistically called a player's coach. Jim Calhoun was never (ever) called that) and I'm not really talking about his offensive sets alone. Teams play an 82 game schedule and thus they really can't play all out every night or every play. Ever watch teams attack the offensive glass in the NBA? No. Because they concede the rebound 85% of time for a bunch of reasons that aren't germane to the college game. Picks, defense, etc. it's a similar theme. So is that what Kevin runs? Yeah. I think so. The Kevin Ollie that returned to UConn was an NBA KO that learned a lot about how to be a professional player for 13 years. Not the Kevin Ollie that would get trapped in JC's rebounding drill until exhaustion. If you've been fortunate enough to see both Calhoun practices and Ollie practices...we play like we practice. I'll leave it at that.

 

[bob15]

The early days ? Was that when the UConn was thought to be a major national program ? Uh, no.

You seriously cannot even consider ANY loss under Calhoun to be a "WTF" loss until at least 1988 or 1989, but I would say it had to be after 1990 at least.

What about the exhibition game loss to Marathon Oil back 1993?

 

[David 76]

No one is saying Ollie is as good a coach as Calhoun. Really Calhoun is irrelevant to Ollie's problems.
No one is saying that Ollie is not struggling.
We 're just tired of the "fire him!' Over-reaction and the irrelevant WWJCD?

 

[temery]

Rewriting history.

I think the real question is, why did he abandon the Jim Calhoun system? He talks "UConn" like its an inherited culture. Culture is an output not an input. Jim Calhoun's UConn was a program with a culture of mental and physical toughness that existed in all of his teams (Some incredibly talented. Some not so much). People used to talk about UConn imposing its will on other teams. About playing hard for 40 minutes. About relentless defense. About all five guys crashing the glass. Practices and the intensity of them were legendary and were a part of almost every national broadcast as the announcers couldn't believe how hard the team would work on Fridays and shoot arounds etc. The rebounding drills alone were brutal...and as a result, we were a terrific tough-minded rebounding teams on BOTH ends of the floor. I recall more than one opposing coach and announcers saying that sometimes UConn's best offense was a missed shot because we ruthlessly attacked the glass. We set picks and guys ran off them. We were terrific going to the basket with contact. We practiced all of those things full speed every day. As a result, we were ready come gametime.

Watch us now. We don't attack the rim with contact - we look to avoid it. We don't set screens. We don't fight over the top of screens on defense (which is why we give up a ton of open three point attempts). We don't really play at full speed beyond a fast break. And we sure don't rebound...in fact we retreat on the offensive glass unless we're in a desperate point in the game. And we don't get in good position on the defensive end - count the number of actual box outs next game.

Kevin's style Is an NBA approach (today, it's euphemistically called a player's coach. Jim Calhoun was never (ever) called that) and I'm not really talking about his offensive sets alone. Teams play an 82 game schedule and thus they really can't play all out every night or every play. Ever watch teams attack the offensive glass in the NBA? No. Because they concede the rebound 85% of time for a bunch of reasons that aren't germane to the college game. Picks, defense, etc. it's a similar theme. So is that what Kevin runs? Yeah. I think so. The Kevin Ollie that returned to UConn was an NBA KO that learned a lot about how to be a professional player for 13 years. Not the Kevin Ollie that would get trapped in JC's rebounding drill until exhaustion. If you've been fortunate enough to see both Calhoun practices and Ollie practices...we play like we practice. I'll leave it at that.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

I think the real question is, why did he abandon the Jim Calhoun system? He talks "UConn" like its an inherited culture. Culture is an output not an input. Jim Calhoun's UConn was a program with a culture of mental and physical toughness that existed in all of his teams (Some incredibly talented. Some not so much). People used to talk about UConn imposing its will on other teams. About playing hard for 40 minutes. About relentless defense. About all five guys crashing the glass. Practices and the intensity of them were legendary and were a part of almost every national broadcast as the announcers couldn't believe how hard the team would work on Fridays and shoot arounds etc. The rebounding drills alone were brutal...and as a result, we were a terrific tough-minded rebounding teams on BOTH ends of the floor. I recall more than one opposing coach and announcers saying that sometimes UConn's best offense was a missed shot because we ruthlessly attacked the glass. We set picks and guys ran off them. We were terrific going to the basket with contact. We practiced all of those things full speed every day. As a result, we were ready come gametime.

Watch us now. We don't attack the rim with contact - we look to avoid it. We don't set screens. We don't fight over the top of screens on defense (which is why we give up a ton of open three point attempts). We don't really play at full speed beyond a fast break. And we sure don't rebound...in fact we retreat on the offensive glass unless we're in a desperate point in the game. And we don't get in good position on the defensive end - count the number of actual box outs next game.

Kevin's style Is an NBA approach (today, it's euphemistically called a player's coach. Jim Calhoun was never (ever) called that) and I'm not really talking about his offensive sets alone. Teams play an 82 game schedule and thus they really can't play all out every night or every play. Ever watch teams attack the offensive glass in the NBA? No. Because they concede the rebound 85% of time for a bunch of reasons that aren't germane to the college game. Picks, defense, etc. it's a similar theme. So is that what Kevin runs? Yeah. I think so. The Kevin Ollie that returned to UConn was an NBA KO that learned a lot about how to be a professional player for 13 years. Not the Kevin Ollie that would get trapped in JC's rebounding drill until exhaustion. If you've been fortunate enough to see both Calhoun practices and Ollie practices...we play like we practice. I'll leave it at that.

This is getting crazy. Putting aside all the factual inaccuracies and, frankly, laughable revisionist history in your post - concerning Calhoun, the NBA, and a host of other topics - we are really going overboard with our attempts to diagnose this thing.

 

[zls44]

In 3+ seasons Kevin Ollie has already had 6 WTF loses and still hasn't beaten Houston.

Jan. 17, 2016 UConn 69, Houston 57
Jan. 30, 2014 UConn 80, Houston 43

 

[Chief00]

With the amount of talent on this team there is no reason why there shouldn't have been 2 blow outs and Sports Center in a quandary as to which spectacular plays to show. What is Ollie's coaching staff doing? Why is Freeman, Moore and Killings on the staff? What do they bring to the table?

Where is Jim Calhoun?

You are the scoreboard and your record.