Big 12 may not be forced to expand

[lv99]

Greg S w a i m tweet from today:

"Told this morning #Big12 won't have to add teams, unless they want to, and #ND not fully joining #ACC in football is the precedent."

It appeared that the Big 12 might have to expand to satisfy the demands of the other BCS members. The other BCS members don't really like the idea that the Big 12 is able to split their part of the playoff money with only 10 members and that the Big 12 doesn't have a championship game which is a risk for a loss that could affect making the playoffs. Apparently it's difficult for the other BCS members to force the Big 12 to have a certain number of schools when they're allowing Notre Dame a route to the BCS without even being in a conference.

The last tweets from S w a i m from months ago were that the Big 12 would probably have to expand. This was consistent with the waiver the Big 12 was trying to get for having a championship game with only 10 members. Bowlsby was talking about trying to get the waiver in an article I read a few weeks ago.

Yet another nail in the coffin of conference realignment, assuming this is true.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

Swa i m is full of .

Not saying either scenario is going to happen, but when it does, the info won't be coming from him.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Greg S w a i m tweet from today:

"Told this morning #Big12 won't have to add teams, unless they want to, and #ND not fully joining #ACC in football is the precedent."

It appeared that the Big 12 might have to expand to satisfy the demands of the other BCS members. The other BCS members don't really like the idea that the Big 12 is able to split their part of the playoff money with only 10 members and that the Big 12 doesn't have a championship game which is a risk for a loss that could affect making the playoffs. Apparently it's difficult for the other BCS members to force the Big 12 to have a certain number of schools when they're allowing Notre Dame a route to the BCS without even being in a conference.

The last tweets from S w a i m from months ago were that the Big 12 would probably have to expand. This was consistent with the waiver the Big 12 was trying to get for having a championship game with only 10 members. Bowlsby was talking about trying to get the waiver in an article I read a few weeks ago.

Yet another nail in the coffin of conference realignment, assuming this is true.

S w a i m has this ass-backwards. While the conf championship game is an opportunity for a loss, one team will also get an RPI/BCS ratings bump by beating the other. Oklahoma St. lost a title opportunity because of the bump from the SEC championship game. So the Big 12 wants a title game (1) for the money and (2) for the increased chance it provides to improve seeding or a chance to get into the playoff. The Big 12 is at a disadvantage as long as it stays at 10. So far it has mostly hurt OSU and K-State. As soon as it hurts UT we'll see how their attitude changes.

 

[frankthetank]

I have never believed that this guy has ever known anything, but I'm fairly certain that the blind squirrel did find the nut here in the sense that any suggestion that the Big 12 *had* to expand because the other power leagues were insisting upon it was ridiculous. The Big 12 would have an interesting legal case on its hands when the entire reason that they're at 10 today is because the Big Ten, Pac-12 and SEC raided them and those same leagues attempted to turn around and dock their playoff pay because their league is too small. Delany and Slive don't give a crap if the Big 12 has 10 schools - a weaker Big 12 is better in their minds in order to have another shot at prying away assets like Texas, Oklahoma and Kansas 10 years from now.

 

[freescooter]

The Big 12 will likely "have to expand" not in the legal sense but because it will make sense ultimately. The will see their teams getting bypassed by other conferences becasue of championship games, and they'll also be pressured on the other end when an undefeated Ohio State or USC loses its title game and gets bypassed by a 10-3 opponent opening the way for a B12 team. The media (read ESPN) will spin it such that that ultimately the B12 will expand. Not every decision is driven by "legal" requirements. sometimes it is effectively the result of peer pressure. When Texas ends up in the Orange Bowl because Iowa out pointed them for the final playoff spot, things will change.

 

[B1GALUM]

I have never believed that this guy has ever known anything, but I'm fairly certain that the blind squirrel did find the nut here in the sense that any suggestion that the Big 12 *had* to expand because the other power leagues were insisting upon it was ridiculous. The Big 12 would have an interesting legal case on its hands when the entire reason that they're at 10 today is because the Big Ten, Pac-12 and SEC raided them and those same leagues attempted to turn around and dock their playoff pay because their league is too small. Delany and Slive don't give a crap if the Big 12 has 10 schools - a weaker Big 12 is better in their minds in order to have another shot at prying away assets like Texas, Oklahoma and Kansas 10 years from now.

Frank. Agree that the B1G would see Texas, Oklahoma and Kansas as assets; however, how likely would any of these teams be an option for the B1G given each has a variation of a "Tech Problem": Texas-Texas Tech, Oklahoma-Oklahoma State, Kansas-Kansas State.

 

[frankthetank]

The Big 12 will likely "have to expand" not in the legal sense but because it will make sense ultimately. The will see their teams getting bypassed by other conferences becasue of championship games, and they'll also be pressured on the other end when an undefeated Ohio State or USC loses its title game and gets bypassed by a 10-3 opponent opening the way for a B12 team. The media (read ESPN) will spin it such that that ultimately the B12 will expand. Not every decision is driven by "legal" requirements. sometimes it is effectively the result of peer pressure. When Texas ends up in the Orange Bowl because Iowa out pointed them for the final playoff spot, things will change.

Oh, I think the Big 12 may very well end up in that position. They probably do need to expand for the long-term (it's just a matter of what their options are). I just never bought that the Sugar Bowl contract had some type of clause that the Big 12 needed to have at least 12 schools, which is what guys like Swaim were claiming. That was always bogus and drove me nuts when people would try to point to that as a reason for Big 12 expansion.

 

[IMind]

I think WVU might push it too. They really are out on an island geographically. Cincinnati and Lousiville probably made the most sense... but UConn and Cincinnati probably make almost as much.

 

[huskymedic]

I think WVU might push it too. They really are out on an island geographically. Cincinnati and Lousiville probably made the most sense... but UConn and Cincinnati probably make almost as much.

Speaking of WVA - Can money buy WVU happiness as Big 12 member?

 

[UCFBfan]

I think expansion is over for now. It sucks but there are a few things that need to play out before conferences reassess where they're at. The B1G needs to see how the Rutgers experiment works and see if bringing in a UConn would solidify the NYC market or if it's a lost cause and now they're stuck with a crappy athletic program.

The Big 12 needs to see if having 10 teams and no Championship Game is a positive or negative in getting a team into the playoffs.

Those two scenarios are what need to play out before UConn has a prayer of escaping the AAC. So all we can do now is win, fill the stadium, and continue to increase it's media presence. Unfortunately it will probably be 5 years or so before any of that smoke clears. Stinks but it's likely our reality.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

 

[MattMang23]

The Big 12 would have an interesting legal case on its hands when the entire reason that they're at 10 today is because the Big Ten, Pac-12 and SEC raided them and those same leagues attempted to turn around and dock their playoff pay because their league is too small.

Yet when the Big East gets raided, those conferences have no problem telling the Big East their postseason payout is now diminished because their conference is no longer good enough...

Maybe Cincy, USF and UConn should try suing the entire NCAA, sounds like they'd have a case

 

[Nostical]

I think expansion is over for now... all we can do is win, and fill the stadium

We certainly need to win and fill the stadium---and be more convincing in the cable metrics game. Those are clear conditions precedent to any conference reconsideration. But let's not lose sight (as Carl's link shows) that we've been raising our academic pedigree under Ms Herbst at a pace unprecedented in our history. She's publicly stated that the model that drives her vision is Michigan, and during her relatively short tenure, the progress we've made toward AAU is actually astounding. (Imagine if she'd been here 5 years sooner.)
But it's also evident that academics and athletics (football) need to run on parallel tracks. While far from parallel, there's been progress. Coaching changes have already begun with our new OC and there's an understanding born of our rejection that says our next HC hire will be a thoughtful and important choice. We've rebranded. Our new wordmark, logo, and uniform designs are now current and compelling. We now need to ready plans for stadium expansion. And we need to win.
So with all that where do we land? While the Big XII may be the most plausible for all the reasons Frank detailed, (and an early invite would be accepted) I don't think Herbst sees the Big XII as a particularly good fit for UConn. She's not unhappy that the CR process has slowed so we can continue marching toward AAU and transforming our football image by competing at high levels in the AAC. Frankly, she needs some time to "pretty us up" for those two other more refined and respected suitors. In many ways UConn is like the smart librarian with horned rim glasses and her hair in a bun-- competent enough at her job, respected for her achievements, but overlooked on date night. Then Ms Herbst signs on as a mentor, and like a female Henry Higgins, convinces her to wear contacts and let her hair down. Same girl but what a difference! Now watch how all those heads, both B1G and small, start turning.

 

[junglehusky]

Yet when the Big East gets raided, those conferences have no problem telling the Big East their postseason payout is now diminished because their conference is no longer good enough...

Maybe Cincy, USF and UConn should try suing the entire NCAA, sounds like they'd have a case

Well, it's not the NCAA, it's whatever we're calling the BCS these days. And with those three schools pocketing the exit money I don't know how sympathetic a jury or judge would be.

What I think will be interesting to see is which happens first - the next round of conference expansion, or expansion of the playoff to six or eight teams. This would be something that likely wouldn't happen for ~10 years or more. Perhaps most of the schools conferences will be happy with the payouts of the contract bowls and the playoff stays at four. Perhaps the money is so good they expand the playoff and add more contract bowls (effectively making the lower tier bowls even more irrelevant). On the other hand maybe John McCain manages to get his a la carte TV channel legislation passed and ESPN can no longer print money, and the college sports economy collapses...

 

[junglehusky]

UConn, the sexy librarian... Nostical, you've been watching either too much Lifetime or too much Cinemax!

 

[Nostical]

UConn, the sexy librarian... Nostical, you've been watching either too much Lifetime or too much Cinemax!

Ha! Wrong networks. If I'm not mistaken isn't that the plot line for most shows on the Playboy channel--not that I'm too knowledgable about it.

 

[CL82]

We certainly need to win and fill the stadium---and be more convincing in the cable metrics game. Those are clear conditions precedent to any conference reconsideration. But let's not lose sight (as Carl's link shows) that we've been raising our academic pedigree under Ms Herbst at a pace unprecedented in our history. She's publicly stated that the model that drives her vision is Michigan, and during her relatively short tenure, the progress we've made toward AAU is actually astounding. (Imagine if she'd been here 5 years sooner.)
But it's also evident that academics and athletics (football) need to run on parallel tracks. While far from parallel, there's been progress. Coaching changes have already begun with our new OC and there's an understanding born of our rejection that says our next HC hire will be a thoughtful and important choice. We've rebranded. Our new wordmark, logo, and uniform designs are now current and compelling. We now need to ready plans for stadium expansion. And we need to win.
So with all that where do we land? While the Big XII may be the most plausible for all the reasons Frank detailed, (and an early invite would be accepted) I don't think Herbst sees the Big XII as a particularly good fit for UConn. She's not unhappy that the CR process has slowed so we can continue marching toward AAU and transforming our football image by competing at high levels in the AAC. Frankly, she needs some time to "pretty us up" for those two other more refined and respected suitors. In many ways UConn is like the smart librarian with horned rim glasses and her hair in a bun-- competent enough at her job, respected for her achievements, but overlooked on date night. Then Ms Herbst signs on as a mentor, and like a female Henry Higgins, convinces her to wear contacts and let her hair down. Same girl but what a difference! Now watch how all those heads, both B1G and small, start turning.

Nice post.

 

[B1GALUM]

The expansion is over but it's never over talk continues ...

http://www.foxsportskansascity.com/...realignment-merry-?blockID=903201&feedID=5089

"To oversimplify things, as long as the per-school payout rakes in more with 10 members than, say, 12 or 14, Big 12 bigwigs will probably keep touting the status quo. At the moment, in Bowlsby’s world, less really is more.

"Of course," Neinas says. "It’s nice to see that the conference is doing so well, and the institutions are reaping the benefits of their labor. Everybody worked hard to make the conference bigger and stronger, and Bob Bowlsby’s got a steady hand on the tiller. And I think everything is looking good."

That’s Neinas’ forecast, and he’s sticking to it. But storm fronts can crop up where you least expect them, even with the College Football Playoff crashing the party in 2014 to make the rich even richer. As long as Park Place sits unclaimed while he’s building high-rise hotels on Boardwalk, Big Ten commissioner Jim Delany is going to keep throwing the dice.

"I think that the ACC’s grant-of-rights probably thwarts the Big Ten’s potential expansion," Neinas allows. "At least at this point."

Wait. ‘Probably?’ ‘At this point?’ You mean if we were to lay a friendly wager on the membership of the Big 12 in, say, six years’ time …

"Well," Neinas replies, "there’s nothing more constant than change."

 

[FAIRTIDES]

We certainly need to win and fill the stadium---and be more convincing in the cable metrics game. Those are clear conditions precedent to any conference reconsideration. But let's not lose sight (as Carl's link shows) that we've been raising our academic pedigree under Ms Herbst at a pace unprecedented in our history. She's publicly stated that the model that drives her vision is Michigan, and during her relatively short tenure, the progress we've made toward AAU is actually astounding. (Imagine if she'd been here 5 years sooner.)
But it's also evident that academics and athletics (football) need to run on parallel tracks. While far from parallel, there's been progress. Coaching changes have already begun with our new OC and there's an understanding born of our rejection that says our next HC hire will be a thoughtful and important choice. We've rebranded. Our new wordmark, logo, and uniform designs are now current and compelling. We now need to ready plans for stadium expansion. And we need to win.
So with all that where do we land? While the Big XII may be the most plausible for all the reasons Frank detailed, (and an early invite would be accepted) I don't think Herbst sees the Big XII as a particularly good fit for UConn. She's not unhappy that the CR process has slowed so we can continue marching toward AAU and transforming our football image by competing at high levels in the AAC. Frankly, she needs some time to "pretty us up" for those two other more refined and respected suitors. In many ways UConn is like the smart librarian with horned rim glasses and her hair in a bun-- competent enough at her job, respected for her achievements, but overlooked on date night. Then Ms Herbst signs on as a mentor, and like a female Henry Higgins, convinces her to wear contacts and let her hair down. Same girl but what a difference! Now watch how all those heads, both B1G and small, start turning.

Pygmalion reference? UCONN from Elissa Doolittle to Julie Andrews (1960's) version.

 

[upstater]

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/20/u...les-hurting-farmers.html?pagewanted=1&_r=0&hp

There will be great changes afoot in the next 20 or 30 years. You might see another 1930s era mass emigration in the middle of the country.