Best baseball player ever?

[storrsroars]

Yea Judge got better hitting stats in 2022 for hitting, but he didn't pitch.

Ohtani pitched close to Cy Young level, and he literally carried the Angels on his back on his own.

That's the definition of a MVP. It's not Ohtani's fault all the good players were injured, and he had to play with AAA caliber players.

For whatever reason, MVP doesn't always denote "best player". It was fairly rare that an MVP was chosen from a non-playoff team before Trout. Without looking it up, off top of my head the last one might've been Steve Carlton.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

“Trout is a AAA player” is your very wrong and disingenuous inference. It was absolutely not the implication.

Bullspit.

There was nothing within his post that could lead one to conclude he was omitting Trout from that statement. The implication was clear, per him, Ohtani was surrounded by AAA talent. The implication would be that Ohtani's teammates (Trout was not excluded) are AAA talents. It isn't that difficult to interpret. Claiming that he somehow excluded Trout does however require projecting a lot of verbiage that was not part of the post.

 

[WestCoastHusky]

Bullspit.

There was nothing within his post that could lead one to conclude he was omitting Trout from that statement. The implication was clear, per him, Ohtani was surrounded by AAA talent. The implication would be that Ohtani's teammates (Trout was not excluded) are AAA talents. It isn't that difficult to interpret. Claiming that he somehow excluded Trout does however require projecting a lot of verbiage that was not part of the post.

You are just trolling. I have never implied Trout was AAA talent and you know. You are just making up. The line up I posted or a variation of it is what Ohtani played with the majority of 2022.

 

[Scoe]

Yea Judge got better hitting stats in 2022 for hitting, but he didn't pitch.

Ohtani pitched close to Cy Young level, and he literally carried the Angels on his back on his own.

That's the definition of a MVP. It's not Ohtani's fault all the good players were injured, and he had to play with AAA caliber players.

Did he carry them to the playoffs? No ifs or buts or what ifs just a simple yes or no.

Did he hit 62 hrs and with a .311 BA again no ifs or buts or what ifs just a simple yes or no.

 

[WestCoastHusky]

Did he carry them to the playoffs? No ifs or buts or what ifs just a simple yes or no.

Did he hit 62 hrs and with a .311 BA again no ifs or buts or what ifs just a simple yes or no.

Based on those criteria, Judge should be the MVP.

We just have different definition on what the definition of the MVP. It would be nice if the media would just define those criteria before the season so there are no surprises

Baseball is still a team sport, even Trout and Ohtani can't do it by themselves. You still need other moving parts. Ohtani is having a historical season in 2023, but the Angels got hit with the injury bug again so who knows at this point.

 

[WhereistheDove?]

There was nothing within his post that could lead one to conclude he was omitting Trout from that statement.

Basic common sense.

 

[Scoe]

Based on those criteria, Judge should be the MVP.

We just have different definition on what the definition of the MVP. It would be nice if the media would just define those criteria before the season so there are no surprises

Baseball is still a team sport, even Trout and Ohtani can't do it by themselves. You still need other moving parts. Ohtani is having a historical season in 2023, but the Angels got hit with the injury bug again so who knows at this point.

So that’s a yes to both those questions so ok. There’s is a lot changing your stories in your arguments, making excuses for Ohtani. No one is doubting he is the best player in baseball, that doesn’t he should be handed the mvp every year because he pitches. Facts show why Judge won mvp and his team was battered with injuries so you can’t use the injury excuse. If you have to come up with YouTube conspiracy videos your not the mvp.

This is a hill you are going to die on I get it, how Ohtani “got screwed out” of an mvp even though 2 guys in the Angels lineup had had a higher BA then Ohtani. If Ohtani batted at least .290 and hit 40 hr I could see somewhat of an argument.

 

[navery12]

Bullspit.

There was nothing within his post that could lead one to conclude he was omitting Trout from that statement. The implication was clear, per him, Ohtani was surrounded by AAA talent. The implication would be that Ohtani's teammates (Trout was not excluded) are AAA talents. It isn't that difficult to interpret. Claiming that he somehow excluded Trout does however require projecting a lot of verbiage that was not part of the post.

This is the poorest job of trolling I've ever seen. Anyone with a kindergarten education knew what he was saying. And that's besides the point that he specifically mentioned the 2nd half, and Trout was hurt that entire time

 

[Scoe]

This is the poorest job of trolling I've ever seen. Anyone with a kindergarten education knew what he was saying. And that's besides the point that he specifically mentioned the 2nd half, and Trout was hurt that entire time

Doesn’t sound like an mvp to me MVPs carry their team that’s an MVP that’s what Judge did. In his paragraph he also added great hitters in Yankee lineup lol like who DJ Lemiehu (season ending injury) Matt Carpenter ( out till the ALCS missed the last 2 months ) and Benintendi ( out for the season). So much for injury excuses for Ohtani.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

Ohtani's batting number would looked way better if he had better production around him in the battering lineup. Judge had that while Ohtani played with literally an AAA team with most of his teammates from last year no longer in MLB.

It's not Ohtani's fault all the good players were injured, and he had to play with AAA caliber players.

Did Trout hit 40 home runs in 2022? Did he play 120 games? Did you exclude him from the AAA teammates that you claimed twice Ohtani played the 2022 season with?

Yeah, I'm trolling and making things up

 

[WestCoastHusky]

Did Trout hit 40 home runs in 2022? Did he play 120 games? Did you exclude him from the AAA teammates that you claimed twice Ohtani played the 2022 season with?

Yeah, I'm trolling and making things up

I hope you been watching baseball long enough to know it takes more than 2 players, even generational talents, to have a winning team.

It is obvious we don't agree on what's the definition of the MVP.

No one gonna convince me Judge deserved the MVP over Ohtani in 2022. Judge had a great AL record breaking season, but Ohtani had a historical season. Ohtani was just more valuable and better.

Also, not one of you addressed the juiced ball controversy. Judge had "extra" help. Statistics showed many of those juiced balls were used at the small Yankees stadium.

Btw, Ohtani just jacked number 31st MLB leading home run just now, and it is not even the All Star Break. He is also getting into his Cy Young pitching form. He is basically Garrett Cole and Judge in one. Is he worth more than one Judge?

 

[WestCoastHusky]

Just to put things in perspective.

 

[storrsroars]

Just to put things in perspective.

Obviously Reggie Crawford is 2nd!

 

[WestCoastHusky]

If we are being fair, we really should be discussing juiced balls.

Here is a ton of info on this:

Will MLB supply these juiced balls for Ohtani this season if he is on pace to break Judge's record this year? Shohei is actually ahead of Judge's pace from last year.

Not that Shohei need it, but it can't hurt. We don't want his record to be tainted, but statistics showed they certainly were used more last year during Yankee games when Judge was chasing. Ohtani has been hitting a ton of 440+ feet bombs.

Albert Pujol, who played with Ohtani, has said Ohtani has the most power he ever seen. Pujol seen Bonds also. That's quite a statement from one power hitter about another.

 

[WestCoastHusky]

Freaking unbelievable. Trout is injured again. People should appreciate how durable Ohtani has been considering his workload. He only missed 2 games this season due to just taking days off. Trout is out 4 to 8 weeks again. When the Angels owner Arte decided not to sell the team despite getting multiple offers in multiple of Billions, he has cursed the team.

Warren injured, CRod injured, Urshela injured, Neto injured, Moore injured, Joyce injured, O'hoppe injured, Rendon inconclusive, Drury injured. And now Trout is injured.

It is back to Ohtani and the Salt Lake City Bees. This was the nickname for the Angels team last year, and it is becoming the reality again with Angels finally getting some wins 1st half of the season. I am pretty sure teams will pitch around Ohtani again like they did last year.

Angels' best move is to probably trade Ohtani right. Unfortunately, owner Arte is so stubborn that he will never give up his once in the lifetime unicorn until he has no choice.

 

[Dove]

He is a phenomenal Pitcher.

He is a phenomenal hitter designated hitter.

I don't think he had played more than 20 games in the OF. The other day I was wondering if I had ever seen him make a diving catch. Or throw a runner out. Or make a leap to rob a home run. No, never have.

Alas, he is a great talent.

 

[WestCoastHusky]

He is a phenomenal Pitcher.

He is a phenomenal hitter designated hitter.

I don't think he had played more than 20 games in the OF. The other day I was wondering if I had ever seen him make a diving catch. Or throw a runner out. Or make a leap to rob a home run. No, never have.

Alas, he is a great talent.

He is also a gold glove talent. Have you seen some of the plays he made as a pitcher? He has played outfield before in Japan. He makes amazing throws from the outfield. He can easily play any outfield position if he wants to due to his speed and talent. He is faster than Michael Vick.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

He is also a gold glove talent. Have you seen some of the plays he made as a pitcher? He has played outfield before in Japan. He makes amazing throws from the outfield. He can easily play any outfield position if he wants to due to his speed and talent. He is faster than Michael Vick.

 

[storrsroars]

Pirates have taken Ohtani deep four times tonight thru six. First time they've faced him.

Of course, since it's the Pirates, they're still losing, having given up four bombs themselves, including two in an inning where they K'd four Angels.

 

[Hey Adrien!]

I'll be in Toronto for an educational convention this upcoming week.

Our hotel is just a four minute walk from the Rogers Centre and we picked up tickets for Friday night's game against the Angels.

Bought cheap seats behind home plate (prices inflated due to Angels in town), but pumped to watch Ohtani live (and rooting for the Angels too!)

 

[Dove]

Thursday double-header:

9IP of 1 hit ball in game 1.
Hits two jack's in game 2.

Angels are not trading him. (can they get a duhhh?)

I only enjoy his talent through highlights.

 

[Hey Adrien!]

I'll be in Toronto for an educational convention this upcoming week.

Our hotel is just a four minute walk from the Rogers Centre and we picked up tickets for Friday night's game against the Angels.

Bought cheap seats behind home plate (prices inflated due to Angels in town), but pumped to watch Ohtani live (and rooting for the Angels too!)

The game I’m heading in Toronto is tonight. Bought tickets for $40 all in, cheapest seats are now $75 all in.

#theothanieffect

 

[storrsroars]

The game I’m heading in Toronto is tonight. Bought tickets for $40 all in, cheapest seats are now $75 all in.

#theothanieffect

Have fun. Be aware, it will be likely be obscenely loud. The one time I was there, the music cues for the crowd were non-stop.

Unfortunately, Rogers isn't as much fun since they cracked down on that couple having sex in the outfield hotel with the shades open.

 

[Hey Adrien!]

Great game at Rogers last night! Got to see a Shotani HR his first AB and the home team got the win (I started rooting for the Angels for Yankees’ benefit, but when in Rome…)

Rogers is a super unique stadium…how many stadiums face a cave from home plate? Definitely interesting sense of dimension with the roof across and the CN tower so close. Plus, you can see Lake Ontario from the stairwell…very concrete forward, though.