Anecdotal: huge falloff in the state of US Soccer

[upstater]

I've watched a lot of youth soccer, both girls and boys, in the northeast and midwest (Indiana, Ohio, Michigan, northern Kentucky) over the last year or two, mainly age groups U13-U16. There is a huge falloff from the level of play of several years ago. It is really easy to see. A few things are driving this:

1. The bankruptcy of US Soccer (due to the pandemic) took them out of subsidizing the youth game, so top youth clubs have less support now.
2. Huge demographic plunge in this age group, especially on the younger side around U13-U15s as they were born after the 2008 economic meltdown.
3. Clubs are losing coaches as they struggle to maintain revenues, and the urge to raise tuition prices has bitten them in the butt even more as you can see a lot more talent remaining at the travel club level these days than years ago.

I'm watching HS soccer games this fall and I see some truly athletically gifted kids who are playing travel ball, and really they have very little nuance to their game. Back when US Soccer was subsidizing the clubs, kids like these would get spots on the elite clubs and they'd be trained by coaches with A licenses, college coaches, and even UEFA Pro coaches. Saw a girls HS team full of ECNL players get shut down by a bunch of punters who were as athletic (or even more) but all they did was kick balls away. Game ended in a 0-0 tie. Woeful soccer. Several years ago an ECNL loaded HS team would easily find the right strategy to take advantage of rec. league stuff. These ECNL girls tried the same attack over and over and over with little variation. They didn't seem schooled at all on what to do in that situation. And many of them were club teammates as they went to this private school just to stay together in the fall.

On the boys side, the numbers are just dwindling in my neck of the woods (Western NY) and I expected to see our teams get blown out, but instead they are holding their own against the MLS league youth clubs.

I truly think we are about to see a plunge in 10 years when it comes to men's and women's soccer.

Maybe the national teams will still do well since they cater to the unicorns, but overall, soccer in this country is less healthy than it was several years ago.

Is anyone else seeing this?

 

[ZooCougar]

I've watched a lot of youth soccer, both girls and boys, in the northeast and midwest (Indiana, Ohio, Michigan, northern Kentucky) over the last year or two, mainly age groups U13-U16. There is a huge falloff from the level of play of several years ago. It is really easy to see. A few things are driving this:

1. The bankruptcy of US Soccer (due to the pandemic) took them out of subsidizing the youth game, so top youth clubs have less support now.
2. Huge demographic plunge in this age group, especially on the younger side around U13-U15s as they were born after the 2008 economic meltdown.
3. Clubs are losing coaches as they struggle to maintain revenues, and the urge to raise tuition prices has bitten them in the butt even more as you can see a lot more talent remaining at the travel club level these days than years ago.

I'm watching HS soccer games this fall and I see some truly athletically gifted kids who are playing travel ball, and really they have very little nuance to their game. Back when US Soccer was subsidizing the clubs, kids like these would get spots on the elite clubs and they'd be trained by coaches with A licenses, college coaches, and even UEFA Pro coaches. Saw a girls HS team full of ECNL players get shut down by a bunch of punters who were as athletic (or even more) but all they did was kick balls away. Game ended in a 0-0 tie. Woeful soccer. Several years ago an ECNL loaded HS team would easily find the right strategy to take advantage of rec. league stuff. These ECNL girls tried the same attack over and over and over with little variation. They didn't seem schooled at all on what to do in that situation. And many of them were club teammates as they went to this private school just to stay together in the fall.

On the boys side, the numbers are just dwindling in my neck of the woods (Western NY) and I expected to see our teams get blown out, but instead they are holding their own against the MLS league youth clubs.

I truly think we are about to see a plunge in 10 years when it comes to men's and women's soccer.

Maybe the national teams will still do well since they cater to the unicorns, but overall, soccer in this country is less healthy than it was several years ago.

Is anyone else seeing this?

Wow. So much to unpack here. Serves them right I guess since the system was never designed to develop better players but instead to seperate affluent families from their money.

Kids intentionally enrolling in private schools to keep playing together? It shouldn’t be like that. We create so many barriers.

 

[SubbaBub]

We have more pool players in playing and starting in top european leagues than ever before. We even have a few domestic players that could play overseas if they chose. Most are really young, which is actually good since everything has to be about 2026. The drop off was between the class of 2010 WC (2002-2012) and now. There are no veteran holdovers from 2014 or even the 2018 cycle.

The pool is undersized and lacks finishing ability. Our centerbacks pool is terrible minus Miles Robinson who is hurt. We actually have a bunch of quality midfielders and wingers. The fullbacks are pretty good but other that Jedi Robinson are far too inconsistent. There are also a lot of redundant skill sets which lakes changing tactics difficult. There really isn't a lot of difference between Pulisic, Reyna, Aaronson, McKinnie, Musah. They are all decent at multiple things but exceptional at nothing.

The offense should be based on getting the ball deep and wide for cutbacks or playing direct longer balls to take advantage of speed. Trying to breakdown a defense with multiple passes doesn't work because we move the ball too slowly. Playing out of the back was a disaster vs. Japan. The back 7 suck at passing. Not having ARob was noticeable. GGG really needs to consider Ream. He's not great and will be the weak link but he plays in the top league and has worked pretty well with Arob for Fulham. No other option is going to be much of an improvement. Long should have played himself off the plane to Qatar. I don't need to see De la torre anymore either. You're going to play Adams, McKennie, Musah and Acosta as your main midfielders and can use Aaronson or Reyna if you need to. That leaves spots for Weah, Prefok and any other strikers you want to try. Leave Morris home too. He adds nothing.

 

[upstater]

We have more pool players in playing and starting in top european leagues than ever before. We even have a few domestic players that could play overseas if they chose. Most are really young, which is actually good since everything has to be about 2026. The drop off was between the class of 2010 WC (2002-2012) and now. There are no veteran holdovers from 2014 or even the 2018 cycle.

The pool is undersized and lacks finishing ability. Our centerbacks pool is terrible minus Miles Robinson who is hurt. We actually have a bunch of quality midfielders and wingers. The fullbacks are pretty good but other that Jedi Robinson are far too inconsistent. There are also a lot of redundant skill sets which lakes changing tactics difficult. There really isn't a lot of difference between Pulisic, Reyna, Aaronson, McKinnie, Musah. They are all decent at multiple things but exceptional at nothing.

The offense should be based on getting the ball deep and wide for cutbacks or playing direct longer balls to take advantage of speed. Trying to breakdown a defense with multiple passes doesn't work because we move the ball too slowly. Playing out of the back was a disaster vs. Japan. The back 7 suck at passing. Not having ARob was noticeable. GGG really needs to consider Ream. He's not great and will be the weak link but he plays in the top league and has worked pretty well with Arob for Fulham. No other option is going to be much of an improvement. Long should have played himself off the plane to Qatar. I don't need to see De la torre anymore either. You're going to play Adams, McKennie, Musah and Acosta as your main midfielders and can use Aaronson or Reyna if you need to. That leaves spots for Weah, Prefok and any other strikers you want to try. Leave Morris home too. He adds nothing.

Yes, but i'm saying the 13-16 year olds are worse than anything that came before them.

 

[gtcam]

I've watched a lot of youth soccer, both girls and boys, in the northeast and midwest (Indiana, Ohio, Michigan, northern Kentucky) over the last year or two, mainly age groups U13-U16. There is a huge falloff from the level of play of several years ago. It is really easy to see. A few things are driving this:

1. The bankruptcy of US Soccer (due to the pandemic) took them out of subsidizing the youth game, so top youth clubs have less support now.
2. Huge demographic plunge in this age group, especially on the younger side around U13-U15s as they were born after the 2008 economic meltdown.
3. Clubs are losing coaches as they struggle to maintain revenues, and the urge to raise tuition prices has bitten them in the butt even more as you can see a lot more talent remaining at the travel club level these days than years ago.

I'm watching HS soccer games this fall and I see some truly athletically gifted kids who are playing travel ball, and really they have very little nuance to their game. Back when US Soccer was subsidizing the clubs, kids like these would get spots on the elite clubs and they'd be trained by coaches with A licenses, college coaches, and even UEFA Pro coaches. Saw a girls HS team full of ECNL players get shut down by a bunch of punters who were as athletic (or even more) but all they did was kick balls away. Game ended in a 0-0 tie. Woeful soccer. Several years ago an ECNL loaded HS team would easily find the right strategy to take advantage of rec. league stuff. These ECNL girls tried the same attack over and over and over with little variation. They didn't seem schooled at all on what to do in that situation. And many of them were club teammates as they went to this private school just to stay together in the fall.

On the boys side, the numbers are just dwindling in my neck of the woods (Western NY) and I expected to see our teams get blown out, but instead they are holding their own against the MLS league youth clubs.

I truly think we are about to see a plunge in 10 years when it comes to men's and women's soccer.

Maybe the national teams will still do well since they cater to the unicorns, but overall, soccer in this country is less healthy than it was several years ago.

Is anyone else seeing this?

Ive been involved in the game for over 50 years
Everything is cyclical
Big push with the girls now is lacrosse when 15-20- yrs ago it was basketball

The thing I've noticed is that the coaches in the high school and under do not stress tactical training- everything is techniques and working on unnecessary skills that create bad habits.

The other aspect is that premier soccer has become cost prohibitive to a larger number of families and ties these kids up year round

The better players are going to prep schools or the soccer academies.

As far as coaching licenses- these days all it means is you went to a license school, played some soccer and got a piece of paper. I never bothered and out coached so many A, B and C level licensed coaches.

 

[ZooCougar]

Ive been involved in the game for over 50 years
Everything is cyclical
Big push with the girls now is lacrosse when 15-20- yrs ago it was basketball

The thing I've noticed is that the coaches in the high school and under do not stress tactical training- everything is techniques and working on unnecessary skills that create bad habits.

The other aspect is that premier soccer has become cost prohibitive to a larger number of families and ties these kids up year round

The better players are going to prep schools or the soccer academies.

As far as coaching licenses- these days all it means is you went to a license school, played some soccer and got a piece of paper. I never bothered and out coached so many A, B and C level licensed coaches.

At our high school the big focus was getting kids to run a 6 minute mile. Total waste of time. I think the long term prospects of turning high school into development dynamo is less than zero unfortunately. To really develop kids they have to be playing 8,9 or 10 months a year and high schools won’t do that.

 

[upstater]

Ive been involved in the game for over 50 years
Everything is cyclical
Big push with the girls now is lacrosse when 15-20- yrs ago it was basketball

The thing I've noticed is that the coaches in the high school and under do not stress tactical training- everything is techniques and working on unnecessary skills that create bad habits.

The other aspect is that premier soccer has become cost prohibitive to a larger number of families and ties these kids up year round

The better players are going to prep schools or the soccer academies.

As far as coaching licenses- these days all it means is you went to a license school, played some soccer and got a piece of paper. I never bothered and out coached so many A, B and C level licensed coaches.

About the coaches, I guess I have noticed the higher credentialed guys around our club are also the best coaches. We had a UEFA Pro guy who is now unaffordable. No other premier club even picked him up. It's like this for some of our best coaches.

 

[Chuck]

The popularity is there at a base level, but @upstater is talking about the elite level, something I have little experience with other than watching some kids pulled from our high school team until they come back after getting recruited by colleges.

Here's what I see in our town. Soccer has by far the most participants from a young age through high school, but the lowest following of anyone that doesn't have a kid playing. Our boys/girls teams will most likely win state championships (because they are good teams in a small school division), and have a chance at their county tournaments vs. huge schools. But nobody goes to their games until late playoffs.

The football team only wins because they play schools that barely field teams. The play is noticeably bad, but the whole town shows up. Lacrosse doesn't yet get football numbers of followers, but has taken the kids/parents that are now avoiding football. We have multiple kids on the boys team that will play high-level D3 or possibly low level D1 soccer in college. Soccer didn't do a good job picking up those losses.

So what's the answer Upstater (to be clear, it's a question, not an attack)? The best football players only play about 13ish games per year. Basketball has AAU, but that's got to be as bad or worse than US soccer clubs. The kids playing soccer are playing a LOT, all year long (fall and spring seasons with training at a minimum), but they would never be international-level talent. At some point, soccer should be a simple game and the cream rises to the top with touches. Are they just not playing soccer, or are they not getting noticed?

I still think the problem is dilution of athletes in a US that has a lot of popular sports and soccer's place in the pecking order. If you are the best athlete in your town, you can pick between baseball, soccer, football, basketball, lacrosse, and even hockey or others. What's going to make you pick soccer? Some of it is culture and family history, but not enough pick soccer.

 

[upstater]

What's going to make you pick soccer? Some of it is culture and family history, but not enough pick soccer.

Being on the shorter side. You're probably not playing football or basketball. I am completely out of it when it comes to who plays baseball. A lot of kids play hockey around here, but I don't think they lose all that much.

Several years ago when I watched the DA that so many of the USMNT come from, he skill level was very high. Ditto with the women. The highest levels have dropped in the level of play. And anecdotally I attribute this to lack of subsidy and support, top coaches not returning, low numbers demographically.

 

[John]

Wow. So much to unpack here. Serves them right I guess since the system was never designed to develop better players but instead to seperate affluent families from their money.

Kids intentionally enrolling in private schools to keep playing together? It shouldn’t be like that. We create so many barriers.

separate affluent families from their money

this is US youth soccer in a nutshell. Gullible and clueless parents of kids that should be in travel write big checks to play on "premier" clubs. Don't even get me started on clubs pushing (and parents falling for) the entire "play for college" shtick, especially with how colleges pack the rosters with internationals (definitely the men, and getting moreso with the women now).

 

[LIuconn]

Kids need to play futsal or small side on a very small field. Develop space creation, not running in straight lines

 

[ZooCougar]

separate affluent families from their money

this is US youth soccer in a nutshell. Gullible and clueless parents of kids that should be in travel write big checks to play on "premier" clubs. Don't even get me started on clubs pushing (and parents falling for) the entire "play for college" shtick, especially with how colleges pack the rosters with internationals (definitely the men, and getting moreso with the women now).

It’s parents spending thousands a year on BS USSF/ UEFA licensed coaches to yet an “elite” experience.

If this was really any good and these kids actually had “elite” potential we would have like 5 national teams worth of studs by now.

 

[John]

It’s parents spending thousands a year on BS USSF/ UEFA licensed coaches to yet an “elite” experience.

If this was really any good and these kids actually had “elite” potential we would have like 5 national teams worth of studs by now.

exactly. And some of these ECNL and academy clubs are hot garbage, particularly the non-MLS academy clubs. This not to mention the level of soccer (essentially it's very overpriced travel) being played at the lower levels of "premier"

 

[upstater]

exactly. And some of these ECNL and academy clubs are hot garbage, particularly the non-MLS academy clubs. This not to mention the level of soccer (essentially it's very overpriced travel) being played at the lower levels of "premier"

Do you really believe this? Almost no one I talk to believes this. These clubs would destroy travel clubs. And a lot of MLS players come out of those non-MLS academies. Our club has 7 guys in MLS right now and we're not even a big club. The level has definitely dropped off, but I would not say it overpriced travel or anywhere near that.

 

[John]

Do you really believe this? Almost no one I talk to believes this. These clubs would destroy travel clubs. And a lot of MLS players come out of those non-MLS academies. Our club has 7 guys in MLS right now and we're not even a big club. The level has definitely dropped off, but I would not say it overpriced travel or anywhere near that.

My post perhaps wasn't clear. I'm not saying that ECNL or DA is travel-level. I'm talking about EDP types of clubs, especially in lower flights - those are generally complete rip-offs preying on naive parents and charging thousands for a travel-level soccer experience. Getting back to DA, I don't know where you are from, but in CT there are two DA clubs, and both have fallen off a cliff quality-wise in the past few years (Oakwood and Beachside). Beachside couldn't even manage to keep their girl's program afloat and folded it a few years ago, and now is boys-only. Any player worth their salt bail out of these two non-mls clubs and go to Revs or one of the NY MLS clubs if they are geographically able to. A lot has to do with the ownership of these two clubs, both owned by dinosaurs who are running their respective clubs into the ground.

On the ECNL side there is one very strong girls club, CFC. CFC's boys product is mid-level, nothing special. The other ECNL club FSA puts out a horrific girls product. FSA has a decent boys program, but there's been rumors ECNL is pissed off with year after year of poor girl's results and may be looking to boot the club. I have no idea if this is true or if ECNL would do such a thing. FSA has great facilities, but the soccer product is spotty and there is a never-ending revolving door of coaches. What CT needs is a consolidation of these clubs, but it will never happen while parents keep writing the big checks.

 

[upstater]

My post perhaps wasn't clear. I'm not saying that ECNL or DA is travel-level. I'm talking about EDP types of clubs, especially in lower flights - those are generally complete rip-offs preying on naive parents and charging thousands for a travel-level soccer experience. Getting back to DA, I don't know where you are from, but in CT there are two DA clubs, and both have fallen off a cliff quality-wise in the past few years (Oakwood and Beachside). Beachside couldn't even manage to keep their girl's program afloat and folded it a few years ago, and now is boys-only. Any player worth their salt bail out of these two non-mls clubs and go to Revs or one of the NY MLS clubs if they are geographically able to. A lot has to do with the ownership of these two clubs, both owned by dinosaurs who are running their respective clubs into the ground.

On the ECNL side there is one very strong girls club, CFC. CFC's boys product is mid-level, nothing special. The other ECNL club FSA puts out a horrific girls product. FSA has a decent boys program, but there's been rumors ECNL is pissed off with year after year of poor girl's results and may be looking to boot the club. I have no idea if this is true or if ECNL would do such a thing. FSA has great facilities, but the soccer product is spotty and there is a never-ending revolving door of coaches. What CT needs is a consolidation of these clubs, but it will never happen while parents keep writing the big checks.

Ours is not an MLS club but it's affiliated with Jamie Vardy's new RNY club, their pro side is in MLS 2. They do lose boys to MLS, but what's even nuttier than paying for the premier clubs is moving across country to situate your child in Atlanta United. That's happened. Here's a dirty little secret: until the last 2 years it was CHEAPER to have your kid play for the DA clubs because they were subsidized by US Soccer. All travel, food, hotel paid for. The club has its own luxury bus and they'd send 4 teams on the road together. Parents never traveled.

I use to be a skeptic when it came to parents expecting their kids would play college ball, but I am genuinely surprised to see several kids get berths at D1, a few D2, and many D3 off my daughter's U17. One of them is a starter as a freshman for Ohio State and has already scored several goals. My youngest is still with the same club. The level of play at the club has dropped off a lot compared to my oldest. It doesn't mean they are losing but I find their competition is also much poorer now than it used to be. The boys side is still strong in MLS Next, 2nd in their division to DC United.

 

[ZooCougar]

Ours is not an MLS club but it's affiliated with Jamie Vardy's new RNY club, their pro side is in MLS 2. They do lose boys to MLS, but what's even nuttier than paying for the premier clubs is moving across country to situate your child in Atlanta United. That's happened. Here's a dirty little secret: until the last 2 years it was CHEAPER to have your kid play for the DA clubs because they were subsidized by US Soccer. All travel, food, hotel paid for. The club has its own luxury bus and they'd send 4 teams on the road together. Parents never traveled.

I use to be a skeptic when it came to parents expecting their kids would play college ball, but I am genuinely surprised to see several kids get berths at D1, a few D2, and many D3 off my daughter's U17. One of them is a starter as a freshman for Ohio State and has already scored several goals. My youngest is still with the same club. The level of play at the club has dropped off a lot compared to my oldest. It doesn't mean they are losing but I find their competition is also much poorer now than it used to be. The boys side is still strong in MLS Next, 2nd in their division to DC United.

College soccer lol. It’s still relevant for the women but for men it’s a joke. You’re supposed to be an established pro at the age you graduate college.

They might as well make men’s college soccer “club” at this point.

 

[ZooCougar]

Do you really believe this? Almost no one I talk to believes this. These clubs would destroy travel clubs. And a lot of MLS players come out of those non-MLS academies. Our club has 7 guys in MLS right now and we're not even a big club. The level has definitely dropped off, but I would not say it overpriced travel or anywhere near that.

Yeah because who would admit that they are wasting thousands of dollars a year.

Name all seven that are in MLS. I’m checking rosters.

And if it’s that joke MLS Next Pro then that doesn’t count.

 

[ZooCougar]

My post perhaps wasn't clear. I'm not saying that ECNL or DA is travel-level. I'm talking about EDP types of clubs, especially in lower flights - those are generally complete rip-offs preying on naive parents and charging thousands for a travel-level soccer experience. Getting back to DA, I don't know where you are from, but in CT there are two DA clubs, and both have fallen off a cliff quality-wise in the past few years (Oakwood and Beachside). Beachside couldn't even manage to keep their girl's program afloat and folded it a few years ago, and now is boys-only. Any player worth their salt bail out of these two non-mls clubs and go to Revs or one of the NY MLS clubs if they are geographically able to. A lot has to do with the ownership of these two clubs, both owned by dinosaurs who are running their respective clubs into the ground.

On the ECNL side there is one very strong girls club, CFC. CFC's boys product is mid-level, nothing special. The other ECNL club FSA puts out a horrific girls product. FSA has a decent boys program, but there's been rumors ECNL is pissed off with year after year of poor girl's results and may be looking to boot the club. I have no idea if this is true or if ECNL would do such a thing. FSA has great facilities, but the soccer product is spotty and there is a never-ending revolving door of coaches. What CT needs is a consolidation of these clubs, but it will never happen while parents keep writing the big checks.

Unless you really are an elite player with elite potential then your parents are just paying for glorified day care.

One of the root causes of this mess is that the USSF and MLS are blocking solidarity payments from happening. That’s how Academies that actually produce professional soccer players get compensated and/or subsidized.

It’s so funny because when European clubs buy American players they have actually sent solidarity payments to some of these clubs either out of pity or because they think it’s the right thing to do.

 

[upstater]

College soccer lol. It’s still relevant for the women but for men it’s a joke. You’re supposed to be an established pro at the age you graduate college.

They might as well make men’s college soccer “club” at this point.

Can say the same about UConn football.

But, I'll say this: daughters are frequently women.

 

[ZooCougar]

Can say the same about UConn football.

But, I'll say this: daughters are frequently women.

UConn Football is more likely to get people into the NFL than most men’s college soccer teams are going to get players into MLS, it’s a dead end,

 

[upstater]

Yeah because who would admit that they are wasting thousands of dollars a year.

Name all seven that are in MLS. I’m checking rosters.

And if it’s that joke MLS Next Pro then that doesn’t count.

I know only a few of them offhand, but when you walk into their training enter, there's the big number 7 in MLS blaring right there. And not NEXT PRO, but MLS.

Alex Bono, Bobby Shuttlesworth, Jordan Allen and Ethan Kutler are 4 I know of offhand.

AND by the way, the highest scoring USWNT player in history is also from the same club.

 

[upstater]

Unless you really are an elite player with elite potential then your parents are just paying for glorified day care.

One of the root causes of this mess is that the USSF and MLS are blocking solidarity payments from happening. That’s how Academies that actually produce professional soccer players get compensated and/or subsidized.

It’s so funny because when European clubs buy American players they have actually sent solidarity payments to some of these clubs either out of pity or because they think it’s the right thing to do.

What do you think is going on in all other sports? Clubs. The vast majority don't make it pro. The travel kids are not developing skills though that may translate into college.

By the way--do you have kids?

Our experience is that no matter what you do, it's going to cost thousands. We have a kid doing premier soccer and theater. Theater is MORE expensive. I talk to parents doing figure skating, dancing and ballet, tennis. It's all the same. Even more.

 

[ZooCougar]

I know only a few of them offhand, but when you walk into their training enter, there's the big number 7 in MLS blaring right there. And not NEXT PRO, but MLS.

Alex Bono, Bobby Shuttlesworth, Jordan Allen and Ethan Kutler are 4 I know of offhand.

AND by the way, the highest scoring USWNT player in history is also from the same club.

I want 7 names or it’s BS.

 

[upstater]

UConn Football is more likely to get people into the NFL than most men’s college soccer teams are going to get players into MLS, it’s a dead end,

Like I said, I specifically mentioned women. BUT the pro women's league is not a career either