ACC wants UConn if ND comes too

[businesslawyer]

I bet there are a lot of posters on this board who spent a lot of Saturday's at home in high school waiting for girls to leave their boyfriends. I bet most of you were doing her homework for her too.

Hey -- there was no reason to come after me personally. It was a long time ago.

 

[Carl Spackler]

the big east in any form that's being discussed is going to be a mess for athletics and revenue sharing. If it's the only way to move forward and retain a BCS affiliation, it's what we've got to do, but it won't make any geographic or monetary sense long term. It will be temporary. There's too much money involved in all of this, and completely destroying any natural rivalries in the northeast among intercollegiate basketball and football? Dumb.

I can guarantee that the media industry will not stand for ratings of intercollegiate sports broadcasts to decline and interest decline in the northeast. Syracuse, Pitt, with only BC to support them in the north east market, are simply not going to draw the interest. There's several years of BC track record to look at. BC, Cuse and Pitt can't play each other every week, and the big name programs down south in both football and basketball aren't coming to town every week either, and not every year either.

An all sports northeast intercollegiate athletic league has got to form eventually for the money involved around the broadcasting. If the ACC isn't strong enough to do it now, eventually they will crack too. They're poised to make it happen now, and the guy that orignially wanted to make it happen three decades ago, unfortunately would be on the outside looking in, well actually looking all around at it - Paterno.

Syracuse, Pittsburgh and Boston College alone are not big enough draws to own the northeast in major intercollegiate sports, nor are UConn and Rutgers alone big enough. Penn State sits inthe middle of all that.

Syracuse, Pittsburgh, Boston College, Rutgers, UConn, Maryland, Virginia and Virginia Tech?

there's a conference that owns the most valueable media markets in the world from virginia to boston.

Will the ACC finish what they started and kill the big east? That's what it all really boils down to, for me.

 

[The Funster]

Why would Swofford pay another $30 million a year for something, the New York/New England market, that he can get for free when UConn and Rutgers join the MAC. He has absolutely no incentive to expand, because time helps him. If the Big East dissolves, as he hopes, he is NEVER, EVER offering UConn or Rutgers. Why would he add two future MAC teams? If the Big East looks like it might survive, maybe he sticks another shiv in the conference and takes UConn and Rutgers. He has to think the league is going to survive to do that.

If, as I suspect, he doesn't want UConn or Rutgers anyway and doesn't have the votes to add them if he did, then we get to work on rebuilding the Big East as soon as possible.

Because if he doesn't add UConn and Rutgers, someone else will. Look, I won't speak for Rutgers but UConn is a rising star academically. It's invested a huge amount into the University, academically and athletically. It is accepting a higher level of student and will have a higher level of graduate. It has arguably the top men's and women's hoops program and a growing football program. It features a top soccer program. It's reputation on all fronts is growing. On top of that, we are part of the tristate market. What's not to like? If Swofford's goal is to ruin the BE and thus marginalize UConn then Swofford really is incompetent because there is no way that will happen. If you think the B1G would pass up the opportunity to have two schools in the NE you have another thing coming because Pitt and Cuse along with BC don't lock up this market. No matter what angle you look at, UConn can add value.

That being said, I would much rather rebuild the BE but not with the non football schools. That is the long, hard road, though, and there is no guarantee of success.

The ACC is at the table, the B1G is at the table and so is UConn. UConn has a better hand than you give them credit for and I have a growing feeling that Herbst knows how to play it.

 

[noeynox]

I still don't see how this is an option. No matter what happens, the Big East is dead. Whether it's now...or in a few years. All it takes is one domino to fall somewhere to get a whole lot of participants moving. If any BE school gets a sniff of another conference, they are jumping, television deal or no. Even if the BE starts looking good in a few years, any school with the opportunity will jump, mainly because they think any other school will do the same. We've got the ultimate game theory scenario going right now.

I don't get it either. The Big East is headed toward being a basketball conference once again, and I don't think the Basketball only schools care either. I think they've had it with the FB thing, it is a headache they don't need.

If we/or any remaining FB schools don't get into another BCS league, I could see the FB schools banding together and adding Temple, Buffalo, UMass and UCF maybe ECU or Memphis if TCU doesn't come along. I don't think that is a BCS league, but it may develop into a decent all sports conference with good basketball with a strong eastern presence. Yuck, I hate it, but I think the split may come because BBall wants to wash their hands of the football headache.

 

[WestCoastHusky]

the big east in any form that's being discussed is going to be a mess for athletics and revenue sharing. If it's the only way to move forward and retain a BCS affiliation, it's what we've got to do, but it won't make any geographic or monetary sense long term. It will be temporary. There's too much money involved in all of this, and completely destroying any natural rivalries in the northeast among intercollegiate basketball and football? Dumb.

I can guarantee that the media industry will not stand for ratings of intercollegiate sports broadcasts to decline and interest decline in the northeast. Syracuse, Pitt, with only BC to support them in the north east market, are simply not going to draw the interest. There's several years of BC track record to look at. BC, Cuse and Pitt can't play each other every week, and the big name programs down south in both football and basketball aren't coming to town every week either, and not every year either.

An all sports northeast intercollegiate athletic league has got to form eventually for the money involved around the broadcasting. If the ACC isn't strong enough to do it now, eventually they will crack too. They're poised to make it happen now, and the guy that orignially wanted to make it happen three decades ago, unfortunately would be on the outside looking in, well actually looking all around at it - Paterno.

Syracuse, Pittsburgh and Boston College alone are not big enough draws to own the northeast in major intercollegiate sports, nor are UConn and Rutgers alone big enough. Penn State sits inthe middle of all that.

Syracuse, Pittsburgh, Boston College, Rutgers, UConn, Maryland, Virginia and Virginia Tech?

there's a conference that owns the most valueable media markets in the world from virginia to boston.

Will the ACC finish what they started and kill the big east? That's what it all really boils down to, for me.

ACC is trying to destroy the BE with ESPN's blessing. They did not have to expand now, but they did it to weaken the BE so we won't get the next TV deal. If we don't, I hope there is a massive, massive, massive lawsuit against the ACC/ESPN for damages. Someday we will find out exactly what happened behind the scenes, but I would imagine ESPN promised ACC more money if they take Pitt and Cuse. It is cheaper to destroy the BE vs. having to compete for a huge TV deal against ESPN's competitors. If UCONN is damaged in any way, I hope we will be forefront of that lawsuit if we are not part of the club.

Right now, our best option is rebuild the BE so it will maintain the BCS bid until our next move. We don't have many other options left.

 

[noeynox]

There is no doubt ESPN has their hands all over the ACC offering Cuse and Pitt. I think Marinatto did no one any favors screaming out loud about taking the Big East TV contract out into the open market.

If the BE is assured its BCS bid, I agree that is our BEST option. I just don't see it. I also see the BBall schools saying, the heck with this, were only going to be left picking up the pieces again in a few years when a couple of other schools leave.

It is really sad, that the BE presidents could not look each other in the eye and swear solidarity to each other. They stood to cash in collectively. Short of that, the FB schools should have moved out as one unit and added teams as THEY saw fit, without the BBall schools influence.

 

[WestCoastHusky]

There is no doubt ESPN has their hands all over the ACC offering Cuse and Pitt. I think Marinatto did no one any favors screaming out loud about taking the Big East TV contract out into the open market.

If the BE is assured its BCS bid, I agree that is our BEST option. I just don't see it. I also see the BBall schools saying, the heck with this, were only going to be left picking up the pieces again in a few years when a couple of other schools leave.

It is really sad, that the BE presidents could not look each other in the eye and swear solidarity to each other. They stood to cash in collectively. Short of that, the FB schools should have moved out as one unit and added teams as THEY saw fit, without the BBall schools influence.

That's exactly why Marinatto needs to be fired. The minute we turned down the TV deal, he should have got all the FB schools together and ask for total commitment in the form of higher exit fees etc. Had BE raised the fee to $25M or more, CUSE and Pitt might have thought twice before they are leaving. At minimal, we would have got $40M+ out of them.

BE was in line to get a higher TV deal than the ACC. If we get something much less, someone better get sued to make up the difference.

 

[tzznandrew]

That's exactly why Marinatto needs to be fired. The minute we turned down the TV deal, he should have got all the FB schools together and ask for total commitment in the form of higher exit fees etc. Had BE raised the fee to $25M or more, CUSE and Pitt might have thought twice before they are leaving. At minimal, we would have got $40M+ out of them.

BE was in line to get a higher TV deal than the ACC. If we get something much less, someone better get sued to make up the difference.

The BE tried to raise the cost after the first raid, but a higher rate would have been voted down. It would have been voted down again.

 

[WestCoastHusky]

The BE tried to raise the cost after the first raid, but a higher rate would have been voted down. It would have been voted down again.

After we turned down $1.4B TV deal, there better be some commitment from rest of the schools. If some schools are not in, BE should have asked the following question:

1. If we agree to turn down this deal, are we willing to make a commitment to each other that we will stay together for the next TV deal?

If people were waffling, they should have accepted the deal. That would be a leader who got a pulse on the whole college scene. Instead, we got Marinatto and here we are.

 

[2Infinity]

Because if he doesn't add UConn and Rutgers, someone else will. Look, I won't speak for Rutgers but UConn is a rising star academically. It's invested a huge amount into the University, academically and athletically. It is accepting a higher level of student and will have a higher level of graduate. It has arguably the top men's and women's hoops program and a growing football program. It features a top soccer program. It's reputation on all fronts is growing. On top of that, we are part of the tristate market. What's not to like? If Swofford's goal is to ruin the BE and thus marginalize UConn then Swofford really is incompetent because there is no way that will happen. If you think the B1G would pass up the opportunity to have two schools in the NE you have another thing coming because Pitt and Cuse along with BC don't lock up this market. No matter what angle you look at, UConn can add value.

That being said, I would much rather rebuild the BE but not with the non football schools. That is the long, hard road, though, and there is no guarantee of success.

The ACC is at the table, the B1G is at the table and so is UConn. UConn has a better hand than you give them credit for and I have a growing feeling that Herbst knows how to play it.

I agree with you Funster. NM...it almost sounds like you are still thinking of UConn in a way that many of us did back in the early days of BE membership. I even remember Scott Gray calling for UConn to leave the BE and rejoin the Yankee Conference because we just couldn't compete. He said that "rising star" UHart, should take our place in the BE, that THEY would be able to compete! What a buffoon!! Look what's happened since then!

We are a valuable addition to either the ACC or B1G. One of them will want us!

 

[EricLA]

I believe that ND has a tie into BE's BCS bid which they could lose if there are no BE football teams. Someone could clarify this. If they lose this they still have the NBC contract (not sure if details were ever disclosed) and will have to decide if the loss of BCS affiliation can hurt them in the future.

hmm. did not know that...

 

[jpm25]

2) It is not being Debbie Downer. Debbie Downer is dumping all over the Big East because we lost two mediocre football programs. The Big East is our league, and if there is any prayer of ever getting into the ACC, it is dependent on making the Big East a regional power and UConn a very strong athletic program. That won't happen unless we shore up the league.

3) It doesn't have to be a question of when. This can be a very strong league.

defending conference co-champions, no less. If you're right, that says alot about what remains.

 

[ctchamps]

hmm. did not know that...

businesslawyer answers this:

NO. ND does not have a tie in to the Big East's BCS slot -- ND's access to the BCS comes from a separate agreement it has with the BCS. ND going to the BCS does not take the Big East's slot.

ND's bowl tie ins with the Big East at the moment are limited to taking the Champs once in a four year cycle.​

 

[jpm25]

I believe that ND has a tie into BE's BCS bid which they could lose if there are no BE football teams. Someone could clarify this. If they lose this they still have the NBC contract (not sure if details were ever disclosed) and will have to decide if the loss of BCS affiliation can hurt them in the future.

not true - if they finish top 8 in BCS rankings they are guaranteed BCS bid. BE has nothing to do with it. They do leverage our bowl games, and we likely have better bowl games becuase of this relationship.

 

[ctchamps]

not true - if they finish top 8 in BCS rankings they are guaranteed BCS bid. BE has nothing to do with it. They do leverage our bowl games, and we likely have better bowl games becuase of this relationship.

bl corrected me as I showed one post before you wrote this. Didn't know about the top 8 ranking or improved bowl get. All this points to ND staying independent.

 

[UConnNick]

If TCU wasn't invited earlier, I don't see what has changed.

More importantly, unless the Big XII consists of idiots the last thing they want to do is destablize the Big EAst. That leads to the ACC moving to 16, which will lead to the Pac Ten following suit. If I'm the Big XII, I'm leaving the Big East alone. The XII already concluded they don't care about a championship game. So first choice is BYU, and second is probably Houston or Air Force.

Texas will never allow Houston to be admitted to the Big 12. They've been paranoid about legitimizing Houston's football program ever since the old days of the SWC. Houston dismantled Texas a few times during the Run-and-Shoot era of the late 80's/early 90's. The Longwhores are only up about +4 in the win column vs. the Cougars, and a couple of those wins came after Houston joined C-USA.

 

[auggie22]

There is no doubt ESPN has their hands all over the ACC offering Cuse and Pitt. I think Marinatto did no one any favors screaming out loud about taking the Big East TV contract out into the open market.

If the BE is assured its BCS bid, I agree that is our BEST option. I just don't see it. I also see the BBall schools saying, the heck with this, were only going to be left picking up the pieces again in a few years when a couple of other schools leave.

It is really sad, that the BE presidents could not look each other in the eye and swear solidarity to each other. They stood to cash in collectively. Short of that, the FB schools should have moved out as one unit and added teams as THEY saw fit, without the BBall schools influence.

i was thinking about this last night - if espn is influencing the expansion plans of the acc and other conferences, then wouldn't it be in their best interests for the big east to stay together in some weakened form? if the acc pulls rutgers and uconn in as 15,16 they are going to expect that this addition is not dilutive, so they need to be compensated well for them. if uconn/ru stay in the big east, and the big east is forced to negotiate in a weakend form, then the acc gets uconn and ru content for a fraction of what they would pay in the acc. the screw would be if uconn sets up OOC rivalry games with bc and syracuse - presumably to curry favor with the conference they covet - then espn gets the more marketable content without paying for it.

 

[gars44]

That's exactly why Marinatto needs to be fired. The minute we turned down the TV deal, he should have got all the FB schools together and ask for total commitment in the form of higher exit fees etc. Had BE raised the fee to $25M or more, CUSE and Pitt might have thought twice before they are leaving. At minimal, we would have got $40M+ out of them.

BE was in line to get a higher TV deal than the ACC. If we get something much less, someone better get sued to make up the difference.

I'm no fan of Marinatto, but this isn't his fault. He wanted to take the deal. It was Pitt leading the way to reject it. Very much sounds like double dealing on the part of Pitt. Pitt with one foot out the door leads the conference to reject a secure, stable arrangement that Marinatto wanted to accept.

 

[intlzncster]

I'm no fan of Marinatto, but this isn't his fault. He wanted to take the deal. It was Pitt leading the way to reject it. Very much sounds like double dealing on the part of Pitt. Pitt with one foot out the door leads the conference to reject a secure, stable arrangement that Marinatto wanted to accept.

Never had a problem with Pitt's choice to leave. But the way they went about it was poor. Zero transparency, duplicity, shank in the bank, double dealing/speak, zero integrity/character, unethical, etc, etc...

EDIT: should have said 'shank in the back' up there....but I like the sound and implication of 'shank in the bank'....

 

[ctchamps]

I'm not a fan of assigning blame (although I'm sometimes guilty of this transgression. darn emotions). I'm more open to listing as many of the factors surrounding an issue to better identify how things evolved.

IIRC the vote for the new contract took place when all the conferences appeared relatively calm. The primary focus at that time was to secure all the members of the BE the best possible $$ that they could arrange. The disagreement between members regarding acceptance or non acceptance of the ESPN's new offer probably had a lot of different reasons.

Reasons schools voted for the contract:

1) Comfort with the relationship with ESPN.
2) Immediate needs for monies that were more important than any future increases
3) Uncertainty a better deal could come along; the conference was at a peak with its athletics and if they went through a period of bad teams they would have less leverage to negotiate as good a package as ESPN offered.
4) The relative uncertainty amongst major conferences made for a ticking time bomb. Take the contract and make it harder for schools to decide to leave if heck breaks loose.

Reasons schools voted against the contract:

1) Universities felt the contract greatly undervalued their worth
2) The conference just had delivered a coup when they got TCU who almost played for an NC. They were extending their reach into the Texas market. These factors deserved a bigger bump.
3) They thought they were in the drivers seat being the last conference to make an extended deal and they assessed the media landscape and believed the various needs of the networks would work in the BE's favor.

What events took place beyond anyone's control or anticipation.

1) None of the major cable companies ran to subscribe to the LHN network.
2) Texas decided to show HS games to increase its content. Whether they did this to increase their recruiting efforts or to make the LHN more marketable or both we'll never know. But it started the ball rolling.
3) TA&M made an earth jarring decision to separate from the B12 and anything to do with Texas.
4) The B12 was unable to smooth relationships with TAM. Furthermore additional members including Texas and Oklahoma were exploring exit strategies.
5) Three ACC schools were found to have NCAA violations. I believe GT preceded these events but NC and Miami came to light around these events. More than likely FSU was contemplating an exit strategy.
6) WV went through its own set of turmoil with its football coach and its AD. Oliver Luck is hired just before the TA&M explosion, an AD without relationships to other BE AD's.
7) UConn makes an agreement with its long term AD Jeff Hathaway to end the relationship and hires interim AD Paul Pendergast.
8) Oliver Luck expresses WV's best interests are aligned with conferences other than the BE. Was this the consensus of the University, was he trying to make a name for himself and shooting from the hip, or was he a new guy who didn't have much time to get to know other AD's and that led him to express this viewpoint publicly, we'll never know. But that was the final catalyst for:

University of Pittsburgh and Syracuse University to make their decision to exit the BE.

In sum a lot of plausible and rational difference existed which prevented the new contract to be signed with ESPN, a contract that if signed could have reduced risks for BE football members wanting to move on. Furthermore a lot of sudden unexpected and jarring events took place that are hard to predict and prepare for. And they all aligned to create the perfect storm to end the BE conference alliance. More events will happen. Now that everyone is hyper alert we have accounted for the most likely scenarios. But there will most likely be a few unexpected twists that develop which very few of us are predicting. I'm hoping it is UConn to the B!G.

 

[gabect]

But that was the final catalyst for:

University of Pittsburgh and Syracuse University to make their decision to exit the BE.

In sum a lot of plausible and rational difference existed which prevented the new contract to be signed with ESPN, a contract that if signed could have reduced risks for BE football members wanting to move on. Furthermore a lot of sudden unexpected and jarring events took place that are hard to predict and prepare for. And they all aligned to create the perfect storm to end the BE conference alliance. More events will happen. Now that everyone is hyper alert we have accounted for the most likely scenarios. But there will most likely be a few unexpected twists that develop which very few of us are predicting. I'm hoping it is UConn to the B!G.

Nice analysis. There is no doubt this wasn't an overnight decision - it was a variety of factors building up over time, the ones you mentioned plus the Villanova mess, I think that created a rift as well. I also hope we go to the B1G when the dust settles. The ACC is great for rivalries/re-uniting the old BigEast and for travel but the B1G would benefit our football program more. We'll always be competitive in basketball.

 

[ctchamps]

Nice analysis. There is no doubt this wasn't an overnight decision - it was a variety of factors building up over time, the ones you mentioned plus the Villanova mess, I think that created a rift as well. I also hope we go to the B1G when the dust settles. The ACC is great for rivalries/re-uniting the old BigEast and for travel but the B1G would benefit our football program more. We'll always be competitive in basketball.

I've always been a UConn fan. I'm a nut men's bb fan. I went to more MM than I should admit. Not cool to be a middle aged gray haired and wrinkled person amongst so many physically and attractive youngsters. But I didn't care. I live in ACC territory now. I could get to games if UConn joins the ACC. So if I look at this thing from a personal perspective, I want UConn to be in the ACC. But I don't think would be the best outcome for UConn, not only for football, but the University as a whole. I think the ACC will be BE II down the road. So I'm hoping for the B!G in spite of the loss of BB prestige. No matter which way this thing heads, I want to be wrong about any of my premises that think UConn could have trouble. I've enjoyed eating crow on enough things to know my opinions have limitations.

 

[gabect]

Thanks for sharing, I bet you'd be one of the younger guys with the WBB crowd. If we join the B1G they might actually live up to their expectations in basketball one day. Other than Ohio St. and Oden that one year I always consistently bet against them in my brackets as they'd be some of the most overrated teams.

 

[ctchamps]

Thanks for sharing, I bet you'd be one of the younger guys with the WBB crowd. If we join the B1G they might actually live up to their expectations in basketball one day. Other than Ohio St. and Oden that one year I always consistently bet against them in my brackets as they'd be some of the most overrated teams.

Lol. I've enjoyed some of their games as well.

 

[toppencil]

Sorry to burst all your bubbles but UConn football is a tiny tiny little minnow in the college football world. Nobody will be asking them to join their conference anytime soon. The Big 10(12)?! you are delusional. They have a slim chance at the ACC if the SEC raids the ACC first. Right now, that looks unlikely.

UConn should come down from delusional mountain and show some loyalty to the Big East. Help rebuild it, increase its fan base and make it a stronger football conference. For the foreseable future Big East football will struggle to maintain its AQ status.

And no, basketball, soccer and all the other quality sports teams UConn fields don't matter; it's all about football. Basketball is huge in the northeast but relatively unimportant in the rest of the country.