ACC, Big Ten...you've chosen poorly

[billybud]

I'd wager that recruiting is 80-90% regional for the majority of programs. There are a handful of schools such as Michigan, ND, Duke, NW, Vandy and Stanford who have specific reasons/philosophies for shopping nationally. You also have to throw in The B1G West Division Schools, as the majority of programs are located in states with little home grown talent. If you're Minnesota or Iowa you better be recruiting Texas, Florida, Cali, GA, etc. If not you are in BIG trouble. If FSU or Miami are regularly recruiting NJ, outside of the occasional can't miss prospect, something has gone horribly wrong with their connections at home.

You are right...teams out of region will attempt to cherry pick an area...Last year, three of FSU's starting 11 on offense were from New Jersey. Schools will go out of state for needs. Some northern schools look south for DB's and speedy WR's/RB's. Florida schools look north for offensive lineman.

 

[billybud]

I will now go where angels fear to tread...talk race, genetics, and football recruiting.

There is a reason that every single medalist in the men's 100 meter for the last five Olympics has ancestral origins in West Africa. It can not be a coincidence. West Africans, as a whole, have more fast twitch muscle cells and different leg muscle physiology from northern european derived peoples. It is no coincidence that 13% of the US population is so heavily represented in football/basketball and track.

It is no coincidence that you do not see Black power lifters medal at the Olympics or world meets. That is a northern european thing. The ice age evolved europeans to have shorter limbs to conserve heat. And it is no coincidence that you see more Whites playing O line than wide receiver. And, controversially, recent findings show that the average person with ancestry based in europe, has some Neanderthal DNA while Africans do not.

It is not a coincidence that Ohio State's two deep at LB, CB, and safety last year were African American.

There are exceptions to every rule...e,g. you'll have a Joey Bosa or Wes Welker....

But...I think that programs that do not have access to a black population of high school football players will find it more difficult to compete at the highest level

 

[pj]

I will now go where angels fear to tread...talk race, genetics, and football recruiting.

There is a reason that every single medalist in the men's 100 meter for the last five Olympics has ancestral origins in West Africa. It can not be a coincidence. West Africans, as a whole, have more fast twitch muscle cells and different leg muscle physiology from northern european derived peoples. It is no coincidence that 13% of the US population is so heavily represented in football/basketball and track.

It is no coincidence that you do not see Black power lifters medal at the Olympics or world meets. That is a northern european thing. The ice age evolved europeans to have shorter limbs to conserve heat. And it is no coincidence that you see more Whites playing O line than wide receiver. And, controversially, recent findings show that the average person with ancestry based in europe, has some Neanderthal DNA while Africans do not.

It is not a coincidence that Ohio State's two deep at LB, CB, and safety last year were African American.

There are exceptions to every rule...e,g. you'll have a Joey Bosa or Wes Welker....

But...I think that programs that do not have access to a black population of high school football players will find it more difficult to compete at the highest level

Angels don't fear to tread there, everyone knows it ... but who doesn't have access to blacks? They are all over the country. It's true SEC country has more, which may be their largest source of competitive advantage. However, among football playing schools, only Nebraska/Minnesota/Iowa/Colorado/Utah are in a region with low black population. http://www.indexmundi.com/facts/uni.../all-states/black-population-percentage#chart

 

[billybud]

Your chart makes one wonder why New York, with a similar size population, and a higher percentage of Blacks, does not put out the football players that Florida does.

Urban basketball orientation? Spring weather?

 

[SubbaBub]

Kids and kids parents like to be able to go to the games. Regional schools and regional conference mates allow that to occur more often. That is why regional football matters.

No kid is picking UConn over Ohio State, but he might pick UConn over Iowa State if he is from Florida.

 

[noeynox]

I will now go where angels fear to tread...talk race, genetics, and football recruiting.

There is a reason that every single medalist in the men's 100 meter for the last five Olympics has ancestral origins in West Africa. It can not be a coincidence. West Africans, as a whole, have more fast twitch muscle cells and different leg muscle physiology from northern european derived peoples. It is no coincidence that 13% of the US population is so heavily represented in football/basketball and track.

It is no coincidence that you do not see Black power lifters medal at the Olympics or world meets. That is a northern european thing. The ice age evolved europeans to have shorter limbs to conserve heat. And it is no coincidence that you see more Whites playing O line than wide receiver. And, controversially, recent findings show that the average person with ancestry based in europe, has some Neanderthal DNA while Africans do not.

It is not a coincidence that Ohio State's two deep at LB, CB, and safety last year were African American.

There are exceptions to every rule...e,g. you'll have a Joey Bosa or Wes Welker....

But...I think that programs that do not have access to a black population of high school football players will find it more difficult to compete at the highest level

This post reminds me of when Jimmy The Greek got fired from CBS. I was a kid and remember the interview, but I think what really did him in was his opinion of black QBs.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

Depends - Michigan has recruits from all over the place. In fact, they more recruits from NJ (5, with the potential for 2 more) than the entire Midwest (4, with the potential for 2 more). They have no commitments from Ohio or Illinois and only 1 from Michigan (the 2 possible recruits are from Michigan).

The big names will always recruit national, that's why they want schools in talent rich states.

Harbaugh & Michigan are having a field day in Jersey this year...

http://www.northjersey.com/sports/h...from-penn-state-then-picks-michigan-1.1498748

 

[billybud]

Taking a look at 3.4.5 stars (Rivals 2013)

1295 were from Florida
277 from Alabama
462 from Ohio
78 from New York
758 from Georgia
333 Louisiana
190 Michigan
284 North Carolina

less than 55....

Wisconsin
Hawaii
Connecticut (39)
Minnesota
Massachusetts
Nebraska
Oregon
Iowa
Nevada
Idaho
West Virginia
Wyoming

 

[SAMCRO]

This post reminds me of when Jimmy The Greek got fired from CBS. I was a kid and remember the interview, but I think what really did him in was his opinion of black QBs.

Ya, I remember that. Wasn't he out at dinner or something, had a few drinks, and went on to talk about how slave owners would breed the biggest and strongest male slaves with the biggest and strongest female slaves to have the biggest and strongest slave baby's? There was definitely more to it, as you mentioned, on whether black athletes were smart enough to play QB? I can't recall.

 

[SAMCRO]

This post reminds me of when Jimmy The Greek got fired from CBS. I was a kid and remember the interview, but I think what really did him in was his opinion of black QBs.

Ya, I remember that. Wasn't he out at dinner or something, had a few drinks, and went on to talk about how slave owners would breed the biggest and strongest male slaves with the biggest and strongest female slaves to have the biggest and strongest slave baby's? There was definitely more to it, as you mentioned, on whether black athletes were smart enough to play QB? I can't recall.

Here's the video clip that got him fired. It was also comments about black coaches. That if blacks take over coaching there would be no jobs left for white people in football.

 

[billybud]

Michael Johnson...gold medalist

"Quote: "All my life I believed I became an athlete through my own determination, but it's impossible to think that being descended from slaves hasn't left an imprint through the generations. Difficult as it was to hear, slavery has benefited descendants like me—I believe there is a superior athletic gene in us."

 

[Kolumbo]

Taking a look at 3.4.5 stars (Rivals 2013)

1295 were from Florida
277 from Alabama
462 from Ohio
78 from New York
758 from Georgia
333 Louisiana
190 Michigan
284 North Carolina

less than 55....

Wisconsin
Hawaii
Connecticut (39)
Minnesota
Massachusetts
Nebraska
Oregon
Iowa
Nevada
Idaho
West Virginia
Wyoming

No Texas?
I still think adding say Houston to the Big 12 is no biggie for UT. Texas should be able to recruit wherever it wants, including Florida.

 

[Ldandy]

Your chart makes one wonder why New York, with a similar size population, and a higher percentage of Blacks, does not put out the football players that Florida does.

Urban basketball orientation? Spring weather?

Yes and Yes.

The metro Northeast is predominantly a basketball culture. Kids in the inner cities grow up playing basketball, and often don't have access to football/baseball or their programs are woefully underfunded. Spring football does not exist in the majority of the Northeast, so athletes are often far more raw coming out of HS or completely unidentified by college recruiters. The Athletes are there, the opportunities not as much.

The Deep South is clearly a football culture. Kids grow up playing the game above all others. They have access to far better coaching and competition. Recruiters are all over the state so identifying talent is typically not an issue. Better weather is certainly a major plus for camps and training facilities, as is the availability of Spring football practice for most programs.

 

[noeynox]

Here's the video clip that got him fired. It was also comments about black coaches. That if blacks take over coaching there would be no jobs left for white people in football.

Yeah, I forgot some of that. What I remembered was the quote about the thighs and I related it to @billybud 's comments about the fast twitch muscles in the legs. Jimmy the Greek never recovered from that. I don't believe he was being a racist but his comments were too controversial. Especially the part about the coaches and QBs.

 

[IMind]

Yes and Yes.

The metro Northeast is predominantly a basketball culture. Kids in the inner cities grow up playing basketball, and often don't have access to football/baseball or their programs are woefully underfunded. Spring football does not exist in the majority of the Northeast, so athletes are often far more raw coming out of HS or completely unidentified by college recruiters. The Athletes are there, the opportunities not as much.

The Deep South is clearly a football culture. Kids grow up playing the game above all others. They have access to far better coaching and competition. Recruiters are all over the state so identifying talent is typically not an issue. Better weather is certainly a major plus for camps and training facilities, as is the availability of Spring football practice for most programs.

I think you hit the nail on the head when you said funding. Here in PA high school programs get major dollars. The smallest school districts have football stadiums that probably rival the best programs in CT... and youth football football starts at 4 years of age, 5 days a week. The youth organizations get their playbooks from the head coach of the local high school. We DID NOT have this in CT growing up. Soccer maybe the #1 sport by the number of participants, but it's not taken anywhere near as seriously by most of the participants as youth football is here. It probably explains the number of PA kids as well. And this is in Eastern PA... an area that I think is actually under-recruited.

I actually think one of the advantages UConn has is that it's smack dab in the middle of some decent football playing areas that are overlooked by the majority of college programs. Eastern PA, the New York suburbs, upstate NY, and New England. It just takes a lot of work to find those kids... they aren't scouted from 5th grade up. They don't have access to the regional camps that get the most attention... but I think Edsall proved they were there. Fast is fast, no matter what state you come from.

 

[dayooper]

Harbaugh & Michigan are having a field day in Jersey this year...

http://www.northjersey.com/sports/h...from-penn-state-then-picks-michigan-1.1498748

Yup, they are. Great talent in NJ this year.

 

[billybud]

I think you hit the nail on the head when you said funding. Here in PA high school programs get major dollars. The smallest school districts have football stadiums that probably rival the best programs in CT... and youth football football starts at 4 years of age, 5 days a week. The youth organizations get their playbooks from the head coach of the local high school. We DID NOT have this in CT growing up. Soccer maybe the #1 sport by the number of participants, but it's not taken anywhere near as seriously by most of the participants as youth football is here. It probably explains the number of PA kids as well. And this is in Eastern PA... an area that I think is actually under-recruited.

I actually think one of the advantages UConn has is that it's smack dab in the middle of some decent football playing areas that are overlooked by the majority of college programs. Eastern PA, the New York suburbs, upstate NY, and New England. It just takes a lot of work to find those kids... they aren't scouted from 5th grade up. They don't have access to the regional camps that get the most attention... but I think Edsall proved they were there. Fast is fast, no matter what state you come from.

Maine, Vermont, New Hampshire, Rhode Island, Massachusetts, and Connecticut combined had as many 3 through 5 stars as Hawaii. The football talent must be really hidden.

Rutgers does have a very fertile recruiting ground based on rated players per FBS school in the state..... as the only real football presence in the state, Rutgers could benefit greatly if they could corral the kids now leaving the state on scholarship.

 

[IMind]

Maine, Vermont, New Hampshire, Rhode Island, Massachusetts, and Connecticut combined had as many 3 through 5 stars as Hawaii. The football talent must be really hidden.

Rutgers does have a very fertile recruiting ground based on rated players per FBS school in the state..... as the only real football presence in the state, Rutgers could benefit greatly if they could corral the kids now leaving the state on scholarship.

You're conflating recruiting rankings with talent... I don't want to get into that discussion. How many scout/rivals camps, etc. are there in New England compared to Florida? Kids just don't get evaluated at all. Connecticut is middle of the pack when it comes to producing NFL talent. It's not Florida, but it's not exactly Alaska either.

 

[Sportsman5]

You're conflating recruiting rankings with talent... I don't want to get into that discussion. How many scout/rivals camps, etc. are there in New England compared to Florida? Kids just don't get evaluated at all. Connecticut is middle of the pack when it comes to producing NFL talent. It's not Florida, but it's not exactly Alaska either.

yes. the measure that matters is performance in college. High school ratings are incredibly random when differentiating between a single star. 2 star vs 3 star or 3 star vs 4 star often has to do with factors outside of the control of a player. Factors that come into play like exposure at camps, reputation of high schools, reputation of high school head coaches etc.
For example, Zordan Holman came into UConn without a scholarship, but got playing time as a true freshman. If he played in a football state, then he would have definitely got scholarship offers.

 

[billybud]

yes. the measure that matters is performance in college. High school ratings are incredibly random when differentiating between a single star. 2 star vs 3 star or 3 star vs 4 star often has to do with factors outside of the control of a player. Factors that come into play like exposure at camps, reputation of high schools, reputation of high school head coaches etc.
For example, Zordan Holman came into UConn without a scholarship, but got playing time as a true freshman. If he played in a football state, then he would have definitely got scholarship offers.

Connecticut (in 2014) had 21 NFL players current....as you said, middle of pack (ranked #26)...same as Colorado and almost the same as Indiana, Oklahoma and Minnesota.

But..Connecticut, like Oklahoma, is also in proximity to other states with recruits (Pennsylvania, New Jersey, and New York).

http://www.scout.com/nfl/story/1463436-nfl-roster-breakdown-by-state?s=127

 

[traitor71]

If FSU or Miami are regularly recruiting NJ, outside of the occasional can't miss prospect, something has gone horribly wrong with their connections at home.

In the case of Miami it was called Al Golden. He simply loved kids from that area for whatever reason.

 

[traitor71]

Your chart makes one wonder why New York, with a similar size population, and a higher percentage of Blacks, does not put out the football players that Florida does.

Urban basketball orientation? Spring weather?

Football is on some entirely other crazy level down here. It's sort of scary to see the importance that is placed on it even at a pee wee level.

 

[FDNY99]

In the case of Miami it was called Al Golden. He simply loved kids from that area for whatever reason.

I guess when you grow up in the well (Golden)...you go back to what you are familiar with.

 

[Ldandy]

I guess when you grow up in the well (Golden)...you go back to what you are familiar with.

Yeah pretty much this. All coaches do this to some extent.