Aaliyah Edwards finally getting some love from ESPN top 25 players

[bballnut90]

Couldn't disagree more with people who have Boston at #1. She MAY be one of the most dominant players in the country in the past few years, but her numbers are not there this season so far.

Let's look at it differently. Diana Taurasi - greatest player all time, and it's not really close. BUT she didn't make the all star team this year and was left off the Olympic team. Why? Her numbers were down. Why? She's lost a step and is getting older.

Now, Boston is not "getting older" or slowing down, but her numbers simply are not there. To reward her as a potential NPOY candidate is simply not right (IMHO). She's not even 2nd team AA this season, unless you want to reward her for either hype, publicity, or past performance.

Would I want her on my team in a NC game? OF course. But her numbers are simply not strong this season and to say "but she's still the best even tho her numbers are down" is a disservice to every other great player out there who is putting up gaudy numbers, often against really good competition.

"OH but her team is so good she's not getting the opportunity to put up big numbers". OK then let's look at non-scoring numbers. Rebounds per game. 9.6. currently 37th in the country.

She is averaging 24 minutes per game, highest on the team. I get that SC is deep and her numbers would be better if she played 30+ MPG, but you can't have it both ways.

Bottom line i just think it's unfair. Maybe as SC's schedule gets into SEC play she will play more minutes and her numbers will go up. But right now, she may be the "best" according to popular opinion, but she shouldn't be on any AA lists at this point.


My point is the experts need to look at more than hype, past performance, cupcake schedules, etc. and be better experts. Just my $.02.

With that logic a lot of UCONN players wouldn't have nearly as much hardware:
-Diana Taurasi won POY awards in 2004 averaging 15.6 points per game when she was honored.
-Sue Bird swept POY awards averaging 14 points per game
-Jen Rizzotti won POY awards averaging 11 points per game
-Ralph and Abrosimova were both 1st Team All Americans averaging 13-14 per game
-Moriah Jefferson made 1st Team All America averaging 12.6 points per game
-Gabby Williams made 2nd Team All America averaging 11.2 points per game
-Morgan Tuck made 2nd Team All America averaging 13 points at the time she was honored
-Stef Dolson made 2nd Team All America averaging 12.5 points per game

 

[hoopsnloops32]

Agree about the bolded part of Boston. If the season ended today I don't think anyone would pick her as POY based on her coasting through all but 2-3 games. Knowing what we know about her, and how she's played quite well in big games so far, I think it'd be short sighted to not have her at least top 3-4 since we know conference play is coming and she's likely logging bigger minutes in those showings compared to the cupcake games.

Your second bolded point is valid. UCONN has definitely played a tougher schedule and the players deserve credit for it. That said, I think Edwards playing 50% more minutes outweighs Brink/Boston playing a lighter schedule thus far. The last bolded point I disagree with though. Boston has had her best games of the season against quality competition (Stanford, UCLA and Maryland). Brink too has played her best in big games (South Carolina, Gonzaga, Creighton, Tennessee). Both have put up pedestrian numbers against overmatched opponents when the games were never in question. Jones is more of a mixed bag in terms of performance in big games. I'd put her in the 10-15 range, I don't think she deserves #6. Cooke has not performed well in big games and has padded her stats against cupcake teams. I wouldn't include her in the top 25.

Agree with your last statement, early season surveys are hard to gauge considering there isn't a full body of work to go off of. Fun to analyze and discuss though.

Brinks minutes are so low because of foul trouble though. Which should count against her.

 

[EricLA]

I'm with you. EricLA, virtually word for word with your argument about Aliyah Boston's standing in ESPN's listing (including that she'll be the number one draft pick and acknowledging that she truly is an outstanding player).

One nitpick from me, albeit one for which I'll likely get riddled by DT's legion of fans: to say Diana is the GOAT, and 'it's not even close' is your opinion, and many others, but not mine. She's in the conversation, which also should include Maya and Breanna, as well as others who didn't play for Geno.

But that's an argument for another day, and one we've had many times over.

Well here's the problem with Maya and Stewie, again IMHO. Maya COULD have been a GOAT, but she chose to cut her career short. Her numbers were magical for the 7 or 8 years she was there, but no longevity. Same for Holdsclaw BTW, altho her reasons were different. Stewie the same. she's only been in the league for 7 years. She may end up the GOAT, but no one has accomplished as much as Dee in the 18 or so years she's been a pro...

But 100% - Dee is my goat by a wide margin, and that's all my opinion.

 

[EricLA]

With that logic a lot of UCONN players wouldn't have nearly as much hardware:
-Diana Taurasi won POY awards in 2004 averaging 15.6 points per game when she was honored.
-Sue Bird swept POY awards averaging 14 points per game
-Jen Rizzotti won POY awards averaging 11 points per game
-Ralph and Abrosimova were both 1st Team All Americans averaging 13-14 per game
-Moriah Jefferson made 1st Team All America averaging 12.6 points per game
-Gabby Williams made 2nd Team All America averaging 11.2 points per game
-Morgan Tuck made 2nd Team All America averaging 13 points at the time she was honored
-Stef Dolson made 2nd Team All America averaging 12.5 points per game

I'm not gonna argue the minutia with you, but compare their numbers with other top player numbers in that era then get back to me (I don't have the time or energy to research that). I'm comparing Boston to all the other stats of today. You are cherry picking PPG numbers from as far back as 1995 in a total vacuum. You gotta do more research if you want to make the argument you are attempting.

You cherry picked PPG. not only that, but this is a different era. Different players, different skill sets, different styles of play, faster shot clock, and possibly most importantly, higher PPG on average than back in 1995.

Additionally, go back and look at where the guards ranked in steals, assists, A/TO ratio, and other guard stats. How did those UCONN guard compare in those years?

Boston is currently 37th in rebounding, so how does that measure up against the 36 post players better than her this season? Is Boston in the top 10 in any statistical measurement? Top 20? Top 30? My point is you gotta compare the post players to other post players - how are their PPG numbers? Rebounds? Steals? Blocks? Even assists? Dolson had a triple-double with assists. How many post players have ever achieved that?

 

[bballnut90]

Brinks minutes are so low because of foul trouble though. Which should count against her.

For the most part it's Tara keeping her minutes low rather than foul trouble. In 13 games she's had 5 games where she's been sent to the bench for being in foul trouble (either 2 fouls in the first half, picking up a 3rd in the 3rd, or picking up a 4th in the 4th)
vs SC-played 23 minutes
vs. Tennessee-played 26 minutes
vs. Florida Gulf coast-played 15 minutes
vs. Santa Clara-played 19 minutes
vs. Pacific-played 12 minutes (could have played more but game was a blowout so she sat almost the entire second half)

She's averaging 21.8 minutes in non-foul trouble games (compared to 20.8 overall) so Tara's still keeping her minutes quite low even when Brink isn't fouling.

 

[AzzisBraids]

Im going to be blunt, the media has a big stake in these awards despite whatever happens on the court prior and during the season.

If South Carolina stays undefeated, Aliyah will win the majority of the awards
If Caitlin Clark keeps on the triple double tallies and Iowa peaks, she could edge out Aliyah on some ballots
Azzi will be an All-American in some fashion regardless of whatever she does when she returns but if she starts dropping big numbers upon her return and they beat SC, she will be the favorite.
Brink is probably the most impactful player on both ends but her foul trouble persona negatively impacts her
Aneesah Morrow is brilliant but DePaul's record keeps her out of the national conversation.

At this point in the season, no other player can really play themselves in the narrative, the lid is pretty closed, so it will be up to these players on who plays their way up and down. Glad they showed Aaliyah and others some love, she has been playing out of her mind, should be recognized.

 

[bballnut90]

I'm not gonna argue the minutia with you, but compare their numbers with other top player numbers in that era then get back to me (I don't have the time or energy to research that). I'm comparing Boston to all the other stats of today. You are cherry picking PPG numbers from as far back as 1995 in a total vacuum. You gotta do more research if you want to make the argument you are attempting.

You cherry picked PPG. not only that, but this is a different era. Different players, different skill sets, different styles of play, faster shot clock, and possibly most importantly, higher PPG on average than back in 1995.

Additionally, go back and look at where the guards ranked in steals, assists, A/TO ratio, and other guard stats. How did those UCONN guard compare in those years?

Boston is currently 37th in rebounding, so how does that measure up against the 36 post players better than her this season? Is Boston in the top 10 in any statistical measurement? Top 20? Top 30? My point is you gotta compare the post players to other post players - how are their PPG numbers? Rebounds? Steals? Blocks? Even assists? Dolson had a triple-double with assists. How many post players have ever achieved that?

Well, for starters, Boston has 2 triple doubles under her belt at SC.

All of those UCONN players beat out others that had much more gaudy numbers, but the UCONN players took home hardware largely due to team success and outplaying competition in big games. If you research those players and delve into rebounds/assists/blocks/steals, few of them had eye popping stats, but at the time their awards were deserved, just like Boston being in consideration for AA and POY is deserved this year. The precedent for awards going to best players on best teams (irregardless of stats) is not a dated practice. If you want examples of All American players with underwhelming stats in the current era, you don't have to go back far:

2022: Haley Jones was 1st Team with 13 points, 8 rebounds, and under 4 assists on 42% FG
2021: Aliyah Boston was 1st Team with 13.7 points, 11.5 rebounds, 48% FG
2020: Lauren Cox was 1st Team with 12.5 points, 8.4 rebounds, 3.6 assists, 46% FG
2020: Aliyah Boston was 2nd Team with 12.5 points, 9.4 rebounds
2020: Ty Harris was 3rd Team with 12.1 points and 5.7 assists
2018: Gabby Williams was 2nd Team with 11.2 points, 7.5 rebounds, 5.3 assists and 2.4 steals

 

[Sluconn Husky]

Silly lists. They have Morrow ahead of Edwards and others. Anyone watch DePaul play Louisville? Morrow basically plays to get hers. I would not want her on my team.

 

[Sluconn Husky]

My issue is that at the moment South Carolina has played the little sisters of the poor schedule outside UCLA, Stanford and Maryland without Miller.

Dawn was preemptive yesterday in trying to halt criticism of this and I can understand why.

Clemson, Hampton, Cal Poly, East Tennessee State, Memphis, Liberty, South Dakota State, Coastal Carolina, Charlston Southern.


Not only has Edwards been a better player thus far, she's done it against far better teams.

 

[Bone Dog]

The last bolded point I disagree with though. Boston has had her best games of the season against quality competition (Stanford, UCLA and Maryland). Brink too has played her best in big games (South Carolina, Gonzaga, Creighton, Tennessee). Both have put up pedestrian numbers against overmatched opponents when the games were never in question. Jones is more of a mixed bag in terms of performance in big games. I'd put her in the 10-15 range, I don't think she deserves #6. Cooke has not performed well in big games and has padded her stats against cupcake teams. I wouldn't include her in the top 25.

You said it better than I did. This is what I meant when I initially said Boston and Brink belong somewhere near the top. But not Jones, and certainly not Cooke.

 

[hoopsnloops32]

For the most part it's Tara keeping her minutes low rather than foul trouble. In 13 games she's had 5 games where she's been sent to the bench for being in foul trouble (either 2 fouls in the first half, picking up a 3rd in the 3rd, or picking up a 4th in the 4th)
vs SC-played 23 minutes
vs. Tennessee-played 26 minutes
vs. Florida Gulf coast-played 15 minutes
vs. Santa Clara-played 19 minutes
vs. Pacific-played 12 minutes (could have played more but game was a blowout so she sat almost the entire second half)

She's averaging 21.8 minutes in non-foul trouble games (compared to 20.8 overall) so Tara's still keeping her minutes quite low even when Brink isn't fouling.

She comes out after she get some foul thought to prevent her from being in foul trouble. The fact of the matter is if she wasn’t such a foul prone player she’s be playing much more.

 

[Boreifs]

Actually, most of the Husky team is on there. Of course, Fudd and Edwards are listed in the top 25, but Nika, Aubrey, and Lou are also listed as having received votes

By year’s end, Dorka will also be getting votes.

 

[The deacon]

Im going to be blunt, the media has a big stake in these awards despite whatever happens on the court prior and during the season.

If South Carolina stays undefeated, Aliyah will win the majority of the awards
If Caitlin Clark keeps on the triple double tallies and Iowa peaks, she could edge out Aliyah on some ballots
Azzi will be an All-American in some fashion regardless of whatever she does when she returns but if she starts dropping big numbers upon her return and they beat SC, she will be the favorite.
Brink is probably the most impactful player on both ends but her foul trouble persona negatively impacts her
Aneesah Morrow is brilliant but DePaul's record keeps her out of the national conversation.

At this point in the season, no other player can really play themselves in the narrative, the lid is pretty closed, so it will be up to these players on who plays their way up and down. Glad they showed Aaliyah and others some love, she has been playing out of her mind, should be recognized.

Reasonable arguments, AzziBraids, although I wouldn't agree Azzi will automatically be an All-American 'regardless of whatever she does when she returns.' That seems a rather presumptive statement that her name alone will carry her through.

Also, no mention of Maddy Siegrist, the reigning Big East player of the year who's simply averaging 27 points (on 53 percent shooting) and nearly 10 rebounds per game? I'm constantly baffled by the omission of Maddy in national discussions of the best players.

 

[AzzisBraids]

Reasonable arguments, AzziBraids, although I wouldn't agree Azzi will automatically be an All-American 'regardless of whatever she does when she returns.' That seems a rather presumptive statement that her name alone will carry her through.

Also, no mention of Maddy Siegrist, the reigning Big East player of the year who's simply averaging 27 points (on 53 percent shooting) and nearly 10 rebounds per game? I'm constantly baffled by the omission of Maddy in national discussions of the best players.

Good point - note, no other player in the field has done what Azzi has done against top 25 teams even in the small sample size. Her body of work against ranked teams, not her name, speaks for itself.

I agree on Siegrist, great player but this just proves my point. This isn't about who's putting up the best numbers. Those are player of the year numbers but those performances have not come against player of the year competition or led to her team winning. Not her fault and not really fair but, it's the reality.

 

[Bone Dog]

Also, no mention of Maddy Siegrist, the reigning Big East player of the year who's simply averaging 27 points (on 53 percent shooting) and nearly 10 rebounds per game? I'm constantly baffled by the omission of Maddy in national discussions of the best players.

Let me make an absurd argument against Siegrist: "She plays on a team with weak shooters, so she has an unfair advantage in scoring. Plus she gets more minutes to burnish her gaudy numbers."

I am always impressed by Siegrist, and I'm glad to see she has garnered some national attention. She belongs in every NPOY conversation. She has the total package. But the temptation to limit the award to players on teams with a shot at a FF is strong and she still may get overlooked.

@AzzisBraids:

I agree on Siegrist, great player but this just proves my point. This isn't about who's putting up the best numbers. Those are player of the year numbers but those performances have not come against player of the year competition or led to her team winning. Not her fault and not really fair but, it's the reality.

I wouldn't be so quick to discount Siegrist's opposition. Villanova has played 4 ranked teams.

Sorry about the edit, @AzzisBraids . I was making a change when you liked this post. I hope you still like it.

 

[Alydar]

Lists aside, I am confident about UConn's ability to play at a high level against top level teams because they have done it. That has not always been the case at times in the past.
As for Edwards, she is playing at an AA level and CD said that as good as she has been she has another level to get to. I can't wait to see it.

 

[bballnut90]

She comes out after she get some foul thought to prevent her from being in foul trouble. The fact of the matter is if she wasn’t such a foul prone player she’s be playing much more.

Those are the 5 games where that has happened. The other 8 that hasn’t been the case, she didn’t get into any foul trouble or get benched for picking up fouls. In those games she’s still only averaging 21.8 minutes, so her minutes are still quite low regardless if she’s in foul trouble or not.

 

[Skeets]

I'm amused. Nearly all the contributions to this thread are about the difficulty of comparing an apple to an orange. Some people want to weigh the apple and weight the orange, some want to compare the circumference of the apple and orange. Some (like me) don't like the color of the orange and prefer a red apple.

One thing I will say, and it's been alluded to in this thread, there's a certain "polling inertia" for those players who were anointed at the beginning of the season because of past performance. It's going to be very hard for an outsider to displace an anointed one (I include Azzi here). It will take something dramatic, irrefutable numbers, perhaps followed by an NC to displace someone (healthy and playing well) who is already near the top of the list. That's because the people (the "experts") contributing to the polling really don't like to be wrong.

 

[BRS24]

Im going to be blunt, the media has a big stake in these awards despite whatever happens on the court prior and during the season.

If South Carolina stays undefeated, Aliyah will win the majority of the awards
If Caitlin Clark keeps on the triple double tallies and Iowa peaks, she could edge out Aliyah on some ballots
Azzi will be an All-American in some fashion regardless of whatever she does when she returns but if she starts dropping big numbers upon her return and they beat SC, she will be the favorite.
Brink is probably the most impactful player on both ends but her foul trouble persona negatively impacts her
Aneesah Morrow is brilliant but DePaul's record keeps her out of the national conversation.

At this point in the season, no other player can really play themselves in the narrative, the lid is pretty closed, so it will be up to these players on who plays their way up and down. Glad they showed Aaliyah and others some love, she has been playing out of her mind, should be recognized.

Sounds just like the Heisman, where it's turned into a QB award, and much of it is based on the hype generated by the schools and the media.

 

[HopJim]

A shame that there is no way to keep count of "clutch moments," plays that influenced the outcome of a game. No issue with most of the currently ranked players-its early in the year and no one will remember this story next month. With so many UConn games being tight this year, they will remember the great play of Edwards. Some players can score but few do it all - rebounding, defense, shooting, leadership.

 

[HuskyNan]

I’ve never understood why people have to diminish the accomplishments of one player to enhance the accomplishments of another.

Boston is one of several posts at South Carolina. She plays alongside Cardoso, Amihere, Saxton, Watkins, Kitts…. UConn fans know how beat up the star players get - if I were Dawn, I’d limit her time against out of conference opponents, too. Dawn has options, she can give her younger players time with more experienced players in the early season games.

Boston is a great player and her stats don’t define her greatness. Anyone looking at Kelly Fari’ss stats would have dismissed her worth out of hand because she’s one of those players that can win a game without taking a shot. Likewise, Boston gives her team a lot without scoring 20 points every night.

While Boston is great, I wouldn’t trade our Aaliyah for her. I simply prefer her motion on offense and the way she’s currently attacking the basket. The way Aaliyah plays, she facilitates Geno’s preferred style of offense so she’s perfect for UConn. And perfect for me, as a fan.

Now that Dorka is back, Ayanna is improving, Amari is showing flashes of greater potential, and Aubrey is showing signs of being an important X factor, i really like the way the Husky frontcourt is rounding into shape. I look forward to the battle with South Carolina.

 

[#1florida]

Aliyah Boston, Caitlin Clark, Azzi Fudd and the 25 best players in women's college basketball

We've ranked the 25 best players in the country this season, starting with the debate over whether Aliyah Boston, Caitlin Clark or Azzi Fudd should be No. 1.

www.espn.com

There is several players I would put ahead of Boston, one, Maddy Siegrist, two, Caitlin Clark, three, take your pick. Boston may be one of the biggest in size, but, not the best talent in college basketball. ESPN is in love with her and SEC. Just my opinion. By the way, the article is not saying most valuable player, it is saying BEST PLAYER. Don't judge by value to the team, judge BEST PLAYER, over all talent, and I think you would say, NOT Boston. So many players with more talent than Boston. Just look at 5'3" Park Lane with Seton Hall, that is talent.

 

[GoChips20]

My issue is that at the moment South Carolina has played the little sisters of the poor schedule outside UCLA, Stanford and Maryland without Miller.

Dawn was preemptive yesterday in trying to halt criticism of this and I can understand why.

Clemson, Hampton, Cal Poly, East Tennessee State, Memphis, Liberty, South Dakota State, Coastal Carolina, Charlston Southern.


Not only has Edwards been a better player thus far, she's done it against far better teams.

I do want to acknowledge that both Dawn and Tara have gone on record this year stating it was incredibly difficult to find competitive teams willing to play them. Dawn said this summer that both NC State and Duke declined to renew the home-and-away series and that Iowa and Notre Dame both declined despite needing non-con games on their schedules.

To be clear, the schedules are what they are and I totally agree that UConn’s players should not be penalized in these kinds of rankings on the basis of playing more minutes. Just simply pointing out that neither team scheduled lightly by design.

 

[PAHuskeyFan]

I’ve never understood why people have to diminish the accomplishments of one player to enhance the accomplishments of another.

Boston is one of several posts at South Carolina. She plays alongside Cardoso, Amihere, Saxton, Watkins, Kitts…. UConn fans know how beat up the star players get - if I were Dawn, I’d limit her time against out of conference opponents, too. Dawn has options, she can give her younger players time with more experienced players in the early season games.

Boston is a great player and her stats don’t define her greatness. Anyone looking at Kelly Fari’ss stats would have dismissed her worth out of hand because she’s one of those players that can win a game without taking a shot. Likewise, Boston gives her team a lot without scoring 20 points every night.

While Boston is great, I wouldn’t trade our Aaliyah for her. I simply prefer her motion on offense and the way she’s currently attacking the basket. The way Aaliyah plays, she facilitates Geno’s preferred style of offense so she’s perfect for UConn. And perfect for me, as a fan.

Now that Dorka is back, Ayanna is improving, Amari is showing flashes of greater potential, and Aubrey is showing signs of being an important X factor, i really like the way the Husky frontcourt is rounding into shape. I look forward to the battle with South CarolinazzCouldn't agree MORE with this @HuskyNan . When I saw the previous post discussing Boston's stats vs playing time compared to Aalyah, I took a very quick look at SoCar's games thus far. They have had VERY few close games...as a result of the teams they have scheduled in this early part of the season, many of them were 30, 40, 50 or more point wins for SoCarolina. BUT, in the "tougher" games, i.e., those against ranked teams, or thouse that stayed close in the early part of the game or all the way to the end (i.e. UCLA & Stanford), Boston played a lot of the game...similar to Aaliayh, unless Boston was in foul trouble such as Stanford.

Couldn't agree more @HuskyNan. When I read the previous post regarding Aaliayh Edward's stats being better than Boston's due to playing more minutes, I took a quick look at the results of South Carolina so far this year. UCONN has played a tougher schedule than South Carolina thus far... the #1 Strength of Schedule according to Massey compared to the #10 Strength of Schedule for South Carolina. In fact, South Carolina has had several games that they won by 40 points or more...in some cases MUCH more. So, clearly Coach Staley has had more opportunities to put the 2nd, 3rd and 4th Post players in the game and rest Boston. While Geno has had to play Aaliyah Edwards more minutes per game due to the strength of the competition. In games against tougher competition, South Carolina has played Boston similar minutes to Aaliyah Edwards as follows, Even in an 18point win over SD State:

SD State: 18 point win... Boston played 34 min
UCLA: 9 point win... Boston played 35 min
Stanford: 5 point win...Boston played 29 min - Foul Trouble - Fouled outT
Maryland: 25 point win... Boston played 29 min.

Time will tell which scheduling strategy is better and will better prepare the players and teams for the end of season push. I believe teams need to be challenged during the regular season and out of conference schedule to be able to rise to the challenges of the Tournaments. Kind of like... if you don't pass the tests early in the season, how can you be ready for the final exam. Iron sharpens Iron. Believe me, South Carolina is a great team and will be in the run for the NCAA championship for the entire season, but no one should diminish the season Aaliyah Edwards has had this year. She is clearly playing at AA level and is ready for every challenge she will face this season.

GO HUSKIES

 

[StanFan]

Good point - note, no other player in the field has done what Azzi has done against top 25 teams even in the small sample size. Her body of work against ranked teams, not her name, speaks for itself.

No other player? If I look across Fudd, Miles, Clark, Brink and Boston and their game against top 25 teams, per minute these are their lines:

• Fudd: .6 points per, .05 rebounds per, .06 assists per
• Brink: .63 points per, .44 rebounds per, .06 assists per
• Boston: .52 points per, .39 rebounds per, .08 assists per
• Miles: .53 points per, .26 rebounds per, .19 assists per
• Clark: .75 points per, .18 rebounds per, .15 assists per

These comparisons are inherently difficult, but I wouldn't say at least statistically over the small sample size Fudd looks a step ahead. If had to pick based on the stats clearly Brink and Clark, but also Miles and Boston's line look more impactful (even before you throw in stats like blocks for the post players)