NBA Draft Combine

[uh-no]

I think there’s more to him not having the ball in his hands here, it’s not like he just didn’t play PG, he never even initiated offense in an offense where multiple players are being used to initiate. There were an inordinate amount of plays where he wasn’t involved in the offense at all. If Tristan had left I think Hassan would have started because our offense is mostly about making quick decisions on where to go with the ball depending on what the defense does. I don’t think that’s his strong suit. I think he’s more of a feel player who prefers to play at his own pace and decide for himself where the ball goes. He’s probably the most talent freshman we’ve ever had, but he wasnt the best system fit.

bingo. you could see it on the one play during the illinois game where raftery or whomever said "castle's been quiet" and then he goes 1-1 for a reverse slam.

 

[Palatine]

"May not be willing" and "is unwilling" are two very different things.

 

[HuskyWarrior611]

I think there’s more to him not having the ball in his hands here, it’s not like he just didn’t play PG, he never even initiated offense in an offense where multiple players are being used to initiate. There were an inordinate amount of plays where he wasn’t involved in the offense at all. If Tristan had left I think Hassan would have started because our offense is mostly about making quick decisions on where to go with the ball depending on what the defense does. I don’t think that’s his strong suit. I think he’s more of a feel player who prefers to play at his own pace and decide for himself where the ball goes. He’s probably the most talent freshman we’ve ever had, but he wasnt the best system fit.

I disagree. I think a case could be made that he was probably the best decision maker on the team when he had the opportunity.

Him being so adamant about working out as only a PG after his time here may speak to some of the frustration he may have felt, but sacrificed for the team, playing here.

Opinions like this kind of proves it may have hurt him in the long run as well because now he has to go out of his way for the chance to play PG because teams genuinely question that. He also pretty much took a year off from refining those skills.

 

[auror]

I think there’s more to him not having the ball in his hands here, it’s not like he just didn’t play PG, he never even initiated offense in an offense where multiple players are being used to initiate.

I mean this just isn't true. From the national championship game:

 

[uh-no]

I mean this just isn't true. From the national championship game:

god that motion is so sexy

 

[Hans Sprungfeld]

The Castle Team is playing chess

They don't want him to get rooked?

 

[UconnU]

I mean this just isn't true. From the national championship game:

I could show you 6-7 possession stretches where his involvement in the offense is setting a screen and running to the corner, I can’t say that about anyone else on the team. He was clearly asked to do less than others, told to just crash the boards and make cuts to the basket. That is unique to him, other first year players in our system have been asked to do more. That’s why I’m excited about this 2024 offense. I think we can truly run 5 man consistently now.

 

[EZPass]

Lil more context. Not a mic drop or anything but I do disagree with @UconnU

 

[Edward Sargent]

There are a lot of rumblings about Castle. That he is unwilling to workout for teams with a starting PG in place, that he views himself as a PG that was playing out of position in college. Personally, I think he should be more open minded to playing SG/Wing.

Your post is the only Grumbling I’ve seen

 

[HuskyHawk]

I could show you 6-7 possession stretches where his involvement in the offense is setting a screen and running to the corner, I can’t say that about anyone else on the team. He was clearly asked to do less than others, told to just crash the boards and make cuts to the basket. That is unique to him, other first year players in our system have been asked to do more. That’s why I’m excited about this 2024 offense. I think we can truly run 5 man consistently now.

Ok, so 6-7 times he did that, and the rest of the time he was what Dan calls a facilitator. He made a lot of passes. It just happened that we played with three facilitators, sometimes 4 when Donovan came up high. Good news is that that's how good NBA teams operate too.

I don't know if he has put for the messages that are attributed to him. Is he a PG? It doesn't matter because the position doesn't exist. He's a facilitator, the ball should be moving through him at times. He can make superb passes, has good vision and awareness. He'll be one of the facilitators on any team he plays for. He can guard 1-2-3 and some 4s, so the position is just a label. If there's a team playing a traditional PG driven offense, well he should avoid that team because that team is going to suck. That's dead. But maybe drafting him would be an acknowledgement of that reality, so he can't get too hung up on it.

 

[HuskyWarrior611]

Ok, so 6-7 times he did that, and the rest of the time he was what Dan calls a facilitator. He made a lot of passes. It just happened that we played with three facilitators, sometimes 4 when Donovan came up high. Good news is that that's how good NBA teams operate too.

I don't know if he has put for the messages that are attributed to him. Is he a PG? It doesn't matter because the position doesn't exist. He's a facilitator, the ball should be moving through him at times. He can make superb passes, has good vision and awareness. He'll be one of the facilitators on any team he plays for. He can guard 1-2-3 and some 4s, so the position is just a label. If there's a team playing a traditional PG driven offense, well he should avoid that team because that team is going to suck. That's dead. But maybe drafting him would be an acknowledgement of that reality, so he can't get too hung up on it.

Is Mike Conley not a traditional PG for the TWolves?

Haliburton for the Pacers?

 

[auror]

Blah blah blah

So you agree, he did initiate the offense a bunch (and certainly more than never) despite playing with 2 5th year senior point guard caliber players. And in fact, he did so more in our biggest games of the year than he did earlier.

 

[JohnFSilver]

Yea in the regular season

Who is Celtics PG? How about Mavs?

Tatum and Luka initiate offense.

Halliburton is the engine for Pacers. More a do everything scorer facilitator.

Edwards the playmaker for Twolves with Conley playing a combo role, though Conley is closer to what I think traditional PG is. Castle can play like Conely and Jru Holiday good comps imo.

Unless you got John Stockton, Chris Paul, Lillard as your Point Guard, it is mostly a committee.

 

[JohnFSilver]

Is Mike Conley not a traditional PG for the TWolves?

Haliburton for the Pacers?

Halliburton a lead guard. He is there to score first. Conley probably closet to true point guard, but the cede a lot of playmaking Edwards in half court

 

[Umami Zen]

They don't want him to get rooked?

Check. As you know Hans-A lot of posturing going on among teams/agents/draftees leading up to Draft Night. Castle's Team seems to be sending a message that they would prefer certain landing spots over others in the Top 10 spots by indicating he wants to be drafted by a team in need of a PG.

 

[Chin Diesel]

I think there’s more to him not having the ball in his hands here, it’s not like he just didn’t play PG, he never even initiated offense in an offense where multiple players are being used to initiate. There were an inordinate amount of plays where he wasn’t involved in the offense at all. If Tristan had left I think Hassan would have started because our offense is mostly about making quick decisions on where to go with the ball depending on what the defense does. I don’t think that’s his strong suit. I think he’s more of a feel player who prefers to play at his own pace and decide for himself where the ball goes. He’s probably the most talent freshman we’ve ever had, but he wasnt the best system fit.

Bad take, bad observation and you are rightfully being clubbed like a baby seal for it.

 

[JohnFSilver]

Bad take, bad observation and you are rightfully being clubbed like a baby seal for it.

Yeah. People still think point guards are offense initiators. Modern point guards play like Newton. Lead guards. Castle is a lead guard. They look to attack first. Not pass first offense.

When they say they want him to be a PG, what they mean is they want him to have the ball in his hands and be the offensive first option. Not just bring ball up, throw it to post. Screen opposite and hang out in corner in an ISO offense.

They want him running PnR as a primary option.

It is, primarily, on ball. His shooting isn’t good enough for him to be an off ball wing.

 

[SubbaBub]

People are overthinking this. It's more about minutes and opportunity. Being a top 5 pick doesn't mean what it used to in terms of your future. If you get buried in the rotation your first 2 years you may not recover.

Most teams have plenty of shooters. Being a SG doesn't guarantee minutes, see Hawkins. If a team doesn't have a PG, then Castle almost has to play major minutes even as part of a 3 man rotation for the 2 traditional guard spots.

Being a PG only is not great unless you are an elite playmaker. Being a combo guard who can legit run the offense is a much more in demand position.

I feel this is about not being pigeonholed, more than claiming the PG label.

 

[JohnFSilver]

People are overthinking this. It's more about minutes and opportunity. Being a top 5 pick doesn't mean what it used to in terms of your future. If you get buried in the rotation your first 2 years you may not recover.

Most teams have plenty of shooters. Being a SG doesn't guarantee minutes, see Hawkins. If a team doesn't have a PG, then Castle almost has to play major minutes even as part of a 3 man rotation for the 2 traditional guard spots.

Being a PG only is not great unless you are an elite playmaker. Being a combo guard who can legit run the offense is a much more in demand position.

I feel this is about not being pigeonholed, more than claiming the PG label.

Good stuff.

Watch how Jrue Holiday plays. He is on and off ball. Same with Derrick White. That is how Castle needs to play. If they want him 90% on ball? I just don’t see him as a lillard, Halliburton, Maxey type of player.

 

[Kenny11]

I think Castle is a point guard. But there is always pre-draft postering by agents. Even if his representation doesn't make him available for a team to work him out and they draft him anyway, Castle will go there and be fine. It happens all the time.

 

[HuskyWarrior611]

Halliburton a lead guard. He is there to score first. Conley probably closet to true point guard, but the cede a lot of playmaking Edwards in half court

I don’t look at PGs as guys who are necessarily suppose to pass.

The main thing is, they are suppose to be the best decision maker on the team and protect the ball. Whether that decision was to score or get guys involved. Haliburton and Conley both do that for their squads at an extremely high level.

It’s what made Kemba a true PG despite being a phenomenal scorer because he was an elite decision maker at all times. Castle’s elite decision making ability is why I’d personally put him in that “lead guard”/“PG” spot. The best decision makers need the ball in their hands.

Which is probably why Castle wants to at least try to go to a team that is going to invest in him being the primary guy to do that.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Halliburton a lead guard. He is there to score first. Conley probably closet to true point guard, but the cede a lot of playmaking Edwards in half court

Halliburton does lead the league in assists, but scores a ton too. I agree with your points, most of the best teams have multiple guys that the offense runs through. Conley is closest only because he's a more limited player.

Most teams have little interest in a player that brings the ball up, then creates offense via penetration or passing, but who isn't a lead scorer. That's the traditional PG role. In your Boston example, Tatum, Brown, White or Holliday brings the ball up, they shift roles and it's very far from the days of traditional positions.

Steph is such a great prospect precisely because he has positional size to switch on defense, can pass and create, and can score. He's the prototype modern guard.

 

[aceboon]

Who is Celtics PG? How about Mavs?

Tatum and Luka initiate offense.

Halliburton is the engine for Pacers. More a do everything scorer facilitator.

Edwards the playmaker for Twolves with Conley playing a combo role, though Conley is closer to what I think traditional PG is. Castle can play like Conely and Jru Holiday good comps imo.

Unless you got John Stockton, Chris Paul, Lillard as your Point Guard, it is mostly a committee.

Mavs literally has 2 PGs in Luka/Kyrie and the lack of a PG/true table setter has been the criticism of the Celtics for like the past 3-4 playoffs, where have you been?

 

[CL82]

Bad take, bad observation and you are rightfully being clubbed like a baby seal for it.

A group of friends of mine and I used to agree to work in key phrases during monthly meetings. If you failed to do it you had to buy everyone else a drink. One month the "phrase that pays" was "clubbed like a baby seal."

(In all honesty, that wasn't even the most awkward. After a while it got kind of out of hand. It was entertaining though.)

 

[HuskyWarrior611]

Mavs literally has 2 PGs in Luka/Kyrie and the lack of a PG/true table setter has been the criticism of the Celtics for like the past 3-4 playoffs, where have you been?

Celtics might actually be a prime example of taking these “new rules” too seriously and suffering for it when it matters.