OT: - Womens' soccer tonight | The Boneyard

OT: Womens' soccer tonight

Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Messages
249
Reaction Score
1,278
Womens' National Soccer vs Mexico tonight@ 7 on Fox sports 1. We haven't played Mexico in awhile, so I'm not sure of their quality, but they have generally played us tough in relatively recent history.
 

meyers7

You Talkin’ To Me?
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
23,195
Reaction Score
59,519
Sophia Huerta will be on the US team tonight. Probably get a start at FB. She played for the Mexican NT against the US NT a few years ago. She did a FIFA one time switch to the US team last year. (She was born in Idaho and raised here, although I believe her parents were from Mexico, or of Mexican descent. ) I believe this will be the first time she's played against Mexico.
 

eebmg

Fair and Balanced
Joined
Nov 28, 2016
Messages
20,037
Reaction Score
88,660
Sophia Huerta will be on the US team tonight. Probably get a start at FB. She played for the Mexican NT against the US NT a few years ago. She did a FIFA one time switch to the US team last year. (She was born in Idaho and raised here, although I believe her parents were from Mexico, or of Mexican descent. ) I believe this will be the first time she's played against Mexico.

Refreshing when the pendulum swings from non US to US ;)
 

meyers7

You Talkin’ To Me?
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
23,195
Reaction Score
59,519
Refreshing when the pendulum swings from non US to US ;)
Yea, but I'd give up a half a dozen Huerta's for one Jonathon Gonzalez.
 

Bigboote

That's big-boo-TAY
Joined
Dec 16, 2016
Messages
6,633
Reaction Score
33,098
There has to be a better keeper available than Alyssa Naeher. She has some good instincts, but she just seems to lose concentration way too often.
 
Joined
Dec 15, 2017
Messages
593
Reaction Score
2,034
Sophia Huerta will be on the US team tonight. Probably get a start at FB. She played for the Mexican NT against the US NT a few years ago. She did a FIFA one time switch to the US team last year. (She was born in Idaho and raised here, although I believe her parents were from Mexico, or of Mexican descent. ) I believe this will be the first time she's played against Mexico.
From reading that or another recent article, her father is Mexican and her mother American, which is why she was able to request and have the switch approved.
She spoke about how supportive most of those close to her both in her family and those on her Mexican team were of her change. If that is accurate, then she's very fortunate to be surrounded by such accepting people. Too many of us, if and when we step out of the accepted boxes, aren't so fortunate.
Great story as I follow the US Women's soccer team as much as I do U Conn women's BB.
Bronx23
 

meyers7

You Talkin’ To Me?
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
23,195
Reaction Score
59,519
No Huerta. Guess they are saving her for Sunday. ???
 

eebmg

Fair and Balanced
Joined
Nov 28, 2016
Messages
20,037
Reaction Score
88,660
I am not an expert by any means on the USWNT but I thought they abandoned defensive principles to force offensive activity. . That is fine against teams like Mexico but not sure this would work against the top teams in the world. Mexico had too many good opportunities with wide open gaps and our goalie situation will never be the same after Solo so defense has to be solid. Lets see if the second game shows improvement. On the plus side, Pugh and Morgan looked very good. I am not sure Crystal Dunn is a good idea in the backfield although Graham Hays seems to differ

Crystal Dunn's versatility a key for USWNT moving forward after win over Mexico
 
Joined
Dec 15, 2017
Messages
593
Reaction Score
2,034
I am not an expert by any means on the USWNT but I thought they abandoned defensive principles to force offensive activity. . That is fine against teams like Mexico but not sure this would work against the top teams in the world. Mexico had too many good opportunities with wide open gaps and our goalie situation will never be the same after Solo so defense has to be solid. Lets see if the second game shows improvement. On the plus side, Pugh and Morgan looked very good. I am not sure Crystal Dunn is a good idea in the backfield although Graham Hays seems to differ

Crystal Dunn's versatility a key for USWNT moving forward after win over Mexico
Crystal Dunn in their previous game was maybe the best player on the field in the defensive outside back position. Yes, she's also a big offensive threat, but she doesn't usually nor shouldn't start with Pugh, Morgan & Rapinoe playing so well together, so this is a way to get herAlso the defensive outside backs like O'Hara are expected to move all the way up the field and be part of the offensive scheme.
Maybe there are two factors which contributed to the defensive lapses you mentioned. Sauerbrun is usually the anchor to the defensive middle backs. She's recovering from an injury. Dalyrkemple has been her partner back there and has done well but is a younger developing player. Tierra Davidson is an up and coming player but both need to continue to work together and of course make mistakes and get better. Also very importantly Julie Erst is a huge cog in both the defense at defensive midfielder ande also on set pieces on offense. She's also out with an injury.
They just completed recently a four nation tournament with four of the top six national teams in the world. This year the US team won.
What's surprises me with the incredible depth and offensive firepower they the US team is how infrequently they score goals.
There's a huge difference in approach, style, skill set, age and experience in the players between Geno and the women's national soccer team.
That might be an interesting discussion on how young players are used and developed in each system and what might be transferable.
Bronx23
 
Last edited:

eebmg

Fair and Balanced
Joined
Nov 28, 2016
Messages
20,037
Reaction Score
88,660
Crystal Dunn in their previous game was maybe the best player on the field in the defensive outside back position. Yes, she's also a big offensive threat, but she doesn't usually nor shouldn't start with Pugh, Morgan & Rapinoe playing so well together, so this is a way to get herAlso the defensive outside backs like O'Hara are expected to move all the way up the field and be part of the offensive scheme.
Maybe there are two factors which contributed to the defensive lapses you mentioned. Sauerbrun is usually the anchor to the defensive middle backs. She's recovering from an injury. Dalyrkemple has been her partner back there and has done well but is a younger developing player. Tierra Davidson is an up and coming player but both need to continue to work together and of course make mistakes and get better. Also very importantly Julie Erst is a huge cog in both the defense at defensive midfielder ande also on set pieces on offense. She's also out with an injury.
They just completed recently a four nation tournament with four of the top six national teams in the world. This year the US team won.
What's surprises me with the incredible depth and offensive firepower they the US team has how infrequently they score goals.
There's a huge difference in approach, style, skill set, age and experience in the players between Geno and the women's national soccer team.
That might be an interesting discussion on how young players are used and developed in each system and what might be best transferable.
Bronx23
Thanks for the analysis. Very valuable.
 

Bigboote

That's big-boo-TAY
Joined
Dec 16, 2016
Messages
6,633
Reaction Score
33,098
Some of Solo's success was due to having a great back line most of the time she was in goal. The back line of Sauerbrun, Klingenberg, Johnston/Ertz, and Krieger was so good that Hope didn't need to stop many shots at all. Klingenberg has been hurt a lot, Ertz has been moved to midfield, Sauerbrun is still on the WNT, not sure what's up with Krieger. Neither Sauerbrun nor Krieger is young.

I know Jill Ellis messed with the team a lot in the first year-plus that she was coaching, but I think she's now trying to get a more settled lineup, at least for the bigger tournaments, and she seems to be settling on a lot more younger players than proven players. We'll see how that works out. As Bronx23 pointed out, they won the tourney in January (they came in last, last year), so that's a step in the right direction. We'll see how they do in August, when they play some more offensive-minded sides.
 
Joined
Dec 15, 2017
Messages
593
Reaction Score
2,034
I'm really conflicted over Jill Ellis' coaching. It's hard seeing players who were important cogs in the teams success be passed over, maybe rightly or wrongly. But it's also very important to bring in new, young blood, which she surely has done. Some of the younger players they now have are so talented they will be around for years to come. As in wbb, the development of women's soccer is enormous throughout the world. They also have lots of their top players either dinged up and hurt. Sauerbraun while getting older has been an anchor. They now have four or five very good defenders (Dalyrkemple, Davidson, Sonnet and Dunn whose maybe in her mid twenties) who are mostly young except for O'Hara and Sauerbraun.
In the midfield Ertz is the defensive anchor and missed the last few games. Sam Mewis a regular contributor in 2017 hasn't played lately. And, Rose Lavelle who showed flashes of brilliance before she seriously tore her hamstring are all missing. Tobin Heath one of their most creative older players has been out for over a year with an injury. Carli Lloyd who was the best player in the world in 2015-2016 now appears to be a sub and might not make the next World Cup and Olympic teams. Andi Sullivan was just the first draft choice in the women's professional league after winning another college national championship at Stanford.
At the forward position is Alex Morgan, who after becoming one of the best players in the world seemed to take a step back until she spent a season playing professionally in Europe and came back with a vengeance. One of their older players Rapinoe is one of the elder statesman and for parts of 2017 was their best player. As an aside she is the partner of one of U Conn women's BB greats, Sue Bird. And then there is Mallory Pugh (who is to soccer what our big three greats are to basketball) who first became a member of the national team at 17 while still in HS. She, and maybe Lavelle, Sullivan, Davidson, are amongst the new American faces of women's soccer.
As in every situation there's something strange going on with one of their better players Christin Press, who appears to be readying to sign in Europe and bypass the pro league here.
Hope this info is useful to those that don't follow it as much as I have. My knowledge of soccer is much more limited than basketball as neither myself, or my kids played soccer. An interesting example of the lack of interest in soccer in the US back when I was young was Pele came to play at Yankee Stadium, maybe it was the late 60's, and there were only a few thousand people in the stands. I was working the game as a vendor selling peanuts or whatever.
Bronx23
 

Bigboote

That's big-boo-TAY
Joined
Dec 16, 2016
Messages
6,633
Reaction Score
33,098
In response to Bronx23: Press has signed to play in Sweden this year. According to the announcers Thursday night, she wasn't invited to this round of play because Ellis wanted only those playing in the US. OTOH, in the Sunday broadcast (I'm watching the second half now), they said one player on the team is playing in France (Horan?). I think the US squad is just plain better when Press is available, even if she's playing 20 minutes.

Observation: Mallory Pugh may be the best US player ever by the time she retires. She's scary good on so many levels.

Observation: I now see why the US plays Alyssa Naeher. I don't normally point things like this out, but Jane Campbell made possibly the most baffling play I've ever seen in any sport in the first half Sunday. Mexico had a corner, which the kicker hooked into the goal. Campbell was behind the goal line when the ball was getting close, and she was in the BACK OF THE GOAL when the ball crossed the line. As my wife said, it's like she was playing dodge ball.

Question: why do coaches move players directly from the front line to the back line? Crystal Dunn is the immediate example, but I think this has happened before. Ellis moved Julie Johnston from the back line, where she was great, to holding midfielder, then not too long after, Dunn from the front line to the back line. Why not Johnston/Ertz stay in the back and Dunn to attacking midfield?

Question: US goal keepers don't seem to be picking the ball up much at all. Has there been a rule change that somehow discourages picking the ball up and punting/drop kicking/throwing it?
 
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
1,295
Reaction Score
3,946
It looked like Campbell got shoved into the back of the goal by a Mexican player. On rewatch the Mexican player gently guided her to the back of the goal; Campbell didn't look like she even tried to hold her ground.
 
Last edited:

Bigboote

That's big-boo-TAY
Joined
Dec 16, 2016
Messages
6,633
Reaction Score
33,098
There was contact on the goal, but if Napheesa boxed out like that, Geno would have pulled her and given her an earful. ;)
 
Joined
Mar 29, 2017
Messages
408
Reaction Score
1,319
Calpedaler, I had a similar(but stronger) reaction to Campbell letting that "little" Mexican player shove her all the way to the back of the net. Hope Solo would have had that opponent in a fetal position 5 yards in front of the goal looking for her broken toes. And it would have been legal.

Bigbooote, the reason our three current goalies don't pick up the ball is that they can not punt it more than 30 yards. They also cant get any air or distance on goal kicks. Solo has legs and feet that work. Go back and look at her punts and goal kicks - they invariably go well past the mid line. She was an excellent forward-striker for the first few years of her pro career and scored 109 goals. I really really really wish we could have Solo back for a few mor years - without a lot of her attitude. The attitude was, in great part due to a very difficult childhood. But she should have better control over it by now. Unfortunately, that one totally inappropriate word - "cowards" - did her in.

As for moving players from front line to back, there is some logic to that. Nobody can defend against a good opposing striker-forward better than another striker-forward who is at least as quick and fast. Both my son, who played high level high school and college soccer and my granddaughter who plays in an elite youth league in the Seattle area have played both positions (in both cases starting as strikers and then going back and forth) depending on team needs.

Bronx 23, I agree with you, but more so. I am really, really, really conflicted, and ______, and _______ Over Jill Ellis coaching! And, in deference to the moderators, that's all I will say about "that person".
 

meyers7

You Talkin’ To Me?
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
23,195
Reaction Score
59,519
In response to Bronx23: Press has signed to play in Sweden this year. According to the announcers Thursday night, she wasn't invited to this round of play because Ellis wanted only those playing in the US. OTOH, in the Sunday broadcast (I'm watching the second half now), they said one player on the team is playing in France (Horan?). I think the US squad is just plain better when Press is available, even if she's playing 20 minutes.
Horan played in France (PSG) right out of High School. She's back in the states now with Portland Thorns. She was a FW at PSG scoring 54 goals in 4 years. She wasn't given much run time with the NT until she came back to the USA. NT coaches seem to have a hard spot with players playing in Europe.

And I agree, Press should be on the teams. However, while she was sorting out her team, she hasn't been playing for a bit, while the others have been in pre-season and the beginning of the NWSL season.

Observation: I now see why the US plays Alyssa Naeher. I don't normally point things like this out, but Jane Campbell made possibly the most baffling play I've ever seen in any sport in the first half Sunday. Mexico had a corner, which the kicker hooked into the goal. Campbell was behind the goal line when the ball was getting close, and she was in the BACK OF THE GOAL when the ball crossed the line. As my wife said, it's like she was playing dodge ball.
Yea, Campbell didn't really didn't instill any confidence in there. Not sure why the defense allowed a defender right on the GK though. On the other hand impeding the GK should be a foul. Mexico did it twice on those 2 corner goals.

Question: why do coaches move players directly from the front line to the back line? Crystal Dunn is the immediate example, but I think this has happened before. Ellis moved Julie Johnston from the back line, where she was great, to holding midfielder, then not too long after, Dunn from the front line to the back line. Why not Johnston/Ertz stay in the back and Dunn to attacking midfield?
For one Ertz was a CB. They have plenty of good CB's now. And Ertz is really commanding in the DMF role. Much better than she was at CB. She was kind of being passed at CB by Sauerbrunn, Dahlkemper and now Davidson. Sonnet is also usually a CB. Where they, at least in Ellis' opinion, have some shortage (of quality anyway) is at the FB spots. They tried the 3 back set up, but that was an disaster. So it looks like they are going to keep the 4 back system. Ellis' wants her FB's attacking quite a bit and that fits in real well for Dunn.

At FB's, I think Ellis has moved on from Klingenburg, and Krieger (33 yo). And I don't think she's completely sold on Short, Smith, Hinkle or Huerta. And O'Hara is hurt. Although she may have to use a couple of them for depth for the WC. Dunn would fit in great as a WB, but again, the 3 CB system did not work at all. Ellis really wants Dunn on the field, and I think it is too the USA's benefit to have her on the field. But Ellis doesn't want to sit Morgan, Rapinoe or Pugh. Dunn really isn't a CM, she needs to be out on the wings where she can attack 1v1. And the CM is pretty deep already too with Ertz, Horan, Brian, Long, Lloyd, Sullivan, Mewes, Lavelle, and Heath can play in there too.

Question: US goal keepers don't seem to be picking the ball up much at all. Has there been a rule change that somehow discourages picking the ball up and punting/drop kicking/throwing it?
US wants to play out of the back, ala Barcelona, Man City, Spain, Germany, etc. Even most young leagues (U8, U9, etc.) are trying to get their GK to quit "booting" the ball up field, by using build out lines. The idea is to maintain possession, not just boot it up field where it's becomes a 50/50 ball. We don't have a Wambach up there anymore to win those headers anyway. Morgan, Press, Pugh, Williams are "into space" players, while Rapinoe, McCaskill and Heath are more "to feet" players. We really don't have anyone who is great at "hold up" play.
 
Joined
Dec 15, 2017
Messages
593
Reaction Score
2,034
In response to Bronx23: Press has signed to play in Sweden this year. According to the announcers Thursday night, she wasn't invited to this round of play because Ellis wanted only those playing in the US. OTOH, in the Sunday broadcast (I'm watching the second half now), they said one player on the team is playing in France (Horan?). I think the US squad is just plain better when Press is available, even if she's playing 20 minutes.

Observation: Mallory Pugh may be the best US player ever by the time she retires. She's scary good on so many levels.

Observation: I now see why the US plays Alyssa Naeher. I don't normally point things like this out, but Jane Campbell made possibly the most baffling play I've ever seen in any sport in the first half Sunday. Mexico had a corner, which the kicker hooked into the goal. Campbell was behind the goal line when the ball was getting close, and she was in the BACK OF THE GOAL when the ball crossed the line. As my wife said, it's like she was playing dodge ball.

Question: why do coaches move players directly from the front line to the back line? Crystal Dunn is the immediate example, but I think this has happened before. Ellis moved Julie Johnston from the back line, where she was great, to holding midfielder, then not too long after, Dunn from the front line to the back line. Why not Johnston/Ertz stay in the back and Dunn to attacking midfield?

Question: US goal keepers don't seem to be picking the ball up much at all. Has there been a rule change that somehow discourages picking the ball up and punting/drop kicking/throwing it?
I love your posts of course mostly about U Conns wbb and now women's soccer.
Thanks for your update on Press as I knew she was considering playing in Europe, but didn't know that she did sign to play in Sweden. She and Dunn were at times starters in the front line but always first subs in there. I think both are tremendous players. From what I've seen over the past three or four years, Press was almost on or around the ball and scored or assisted often. The critique I've heard and somewhat noticed is she struggles more against the top ranked teams in the world. Morgan, Dunn, Lloyd all played there in last year or so, and while some is surely the money, some is that their play and game there is somewhat a different style than was being used here, until recently. Again with my limited knowledge, I think it applies to more and quicker, shorter passing and better spacing. Alex Morgan was going through a clear decline in her importance to the team, some of which was attributed to injuries, but her game and skill set needed to evolve further. Both while and since she was there, she now is amongst the best and most dangerous players and scorers in the world. So my guess is Press is hoping for the same for herself. I think Ellis is punishing her for her choice. Lindsay Horan was the first US woman to bypass college soccer to go play professionally in Europe and while a bit slow afoot, always plays and contributes.
Agree wholeheartedly about Mallory Pugh who is a player for the ages, already. Her speed, footwork, handling of the ball and passing are superb. She's actually a better passer than shooter as evidenced by more assists than goals. Anyone who admires developing greatness needs to watch this young lady who will only turn 20 the end of April.
Goalkeeping is the teams biggest area of need for improvement. Campbell played like she was overwhelmed by the start. They have yet to find anyone even close to Solo's ability and drive, which was maybe her greatest asset and the downfall. Why she can't be spoken with and try to get her to modify her outspokenness a bit is beyond me. Although sometimes with some athletes or celebrities or business people, if you try and tone down their extreme drive and competitiveness they are not close to the same.
As to your question about moving players from the front line to the back line here's what I've observed.
Julie Erst then Johnson was playing defensive middle during the World Cup run and was thought of by many as one of the top few players on that winning team. The Olympic year, for reasons I have no clue about, both her play and playing time we're not of the previous level. Therefore she had become a sub. Morgan Brian was the defensive midfielder on the World Cup team and was outstanding then. She too showed a bit of slippage and then ongoing injuries she was just now returning from, when they moved Erst to that position a year or more ago. She is just phenomenal there. The reasons I see is that position helps the team go from playing defense to starting the offense and creating the proper positioning. Erst is also a tremendous factor offensively, especially on set pieces. Morgan was a setter upper but has never been much of an offensive threat.
As to Dunn, there are a few reasons for using her as defensive outside back. She did play that position when she was first called up to the national team. That position has been one of the weakest on the team with O'Hara on the right side a veteran and verbal cog on the team. Jill likes the two outside defensive backs and the defensive midfielder to be very offensive. Dunn has the speed, grit and abilities to do it very well. She also is so talented that she needs to be on the pitch (as they say and I chuckle) as much as possible. For right now Rapinoe, Morgan and Pugh have been tremendous together and developed great chemistry.
A few years ago when both Llody and Morgan were both amongst the best two players in the world and both playing up top, their chemistry was almost non-existent.
So as in Wbb some times positioning has to do with opportunities and open positions in the team.
Bronx23
 
Last edited:

Bigboote

That's big-boo-TAY
Joined
Dec 16, 2016
Messages
6,633
Reaction Score
33,098
First, thanks very much to both beyers7 and Bronx23 for your informative posts and for patiently answering my comments and questions.

US wants to play out of the back, ala Barcelona, Man City, Spain, Germany, etc. Even most young leagues (U8, U9, etc.) are trying to get their GK to quit "booting" the ball up field, by using build out lines. The idea is to maintain possession, not just boot it up field where it's becomes a 50/50 ball. We don't have a Wambach up there anymore to win those headers anyway. Morgan, Press, Pugh, Williams are "into space" players, while Rapinoe, McCaskill and Heath are more "to feet" players. We really don't have anyone who is great at "hold up" play.

My question kind of arose from the possession viewpoint. It seems that the keepers are just booting the moving ball even, or especially when there's pressure from the opposing team. I would think it would be better to pick the ball up, gain control, then throw the ball or place it down and kick it to your teammate 20 meters away. I agree with the current keepers' inability to boot the ball forward -- I was jealous of the Mexican keeper booting it up past midfield.

Outside of goal, I do think this side has some potential. We just need a back line that keeps the opponents far enough away from goal (especially in set plays) that the GK's lack of strength isn't so important.
 

meyers7

You Talkin’ To Me?
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
23,195
Reaction Score
59,519
First, thanks very much to both beyers7 and Bronx23 for your informative posts and for patiently answering my comments and questions.



My question kind of arose from the possession viewpoint. It seems that the keepers are just booting the moving ball even, or especially when there's pressure from the opposing team. I would think it would be better to pick the ball up, gain control, then throw the ball or place it down and kick it to your teammate 20 meters away. I agree with the current keepers' inability to boot the ball forward -- I was jealous of the Mexican keeper booting it up past midfield.

Outside of goal, I do think this side has some potential. We just need a back line that keeps the opponents far enough away from goal (especially in set plays) that the GK's lack of strength isn't so important.
Well it depends. They can't pick the ball up if it is passed back to them by a teammate. Indirect Free Kick Foul.

Don't be too jealous of the Mexican keeper booting the ball, it usually turned over to the US. But yea, it kept it out of their end...for a little bit.
 
Joined
Aug 27, 2011
Messages
2,346
Reaction Score
6,036
Julie Erst then Johnson was playing defensive middle during the World Cup run and was thought of by many as one of the top few players on that winning team. The Olympic year, for reasons I have no clue about, both her play and playing time we're not of the previous level. Therefore she had become a sub. Morgan Brian was the defensive midfielder on the World Cup team and was outstanding then. She too showed a bit of slippage and then ongoing injuries she was just now returning from, when they moved Erst to that position a year or more ago. She is just phenomenal there.


No. Julie Johnston (now Ertz) was still the starter on the Olympic team at central defender. She missed two games with a groin injury, but she played all 90 minutes of the first game. And she played all 120 minutes, on defense, of the quarter-final draw that led to the penalty kicks. She also started all of the pre-Olympic games at central defender and played well. She was never a sub in important games that year. In early 2017, she became a part-time starter for the WNT - still on defense - and then was moved to midfield in the summer of 2017 for that team. That move obviously has worked out very well. Having been a midfielder in HS and college, she seems very comfortable there and is clearly one of the team's top players.
 

Bigboote

That's big-boo-TAY
Joined
Dec 16, 2016
Messages
6,633
Reaction Score
33,098
Well it depends. They can't pick the ball up if it is passed back to them by a teammate. Indirect Free Kick Foul.

I had no idea! That answers my question.
 

Online statistics

Members online
173
Guests online
3,106
Total visitors
3,279

Forum statistics

Threads
155,799
Messages
4,032,022
Members
9,865
Latest member
Sad Tiger


Top Bottom