Will the Catholic Conference be a long-term success?

[champs99and04]

It sure seems like this one could go either way - I could certainly envision a scenario where the anchors known as Seton Hall, Providence, DePaul, and even St. Johns to an extent suffocate the conference into irrelevency. Georgetown and Marquette are nice programs, but they're not your prototypical sexy matchups every team circles on their calender before the season.

I think this conference will be successful, though, and the main reason is coaching. John Thompson, Jay Wright, Buzz Williams, and even Steve Lavin at least seem to have a general idea on how to build a program and sustain success. Thompson and Williams generally have disciplined teams who execute well and understand how to manage the limitations of their talent. Wright is an enigma who can thrive with the right roster and self-combust with the wrong one, and Lavin is a charasmic salesman who's been reeling in the recruits and working the New York City pipelines. As a coach, he leaves a lot to be desired, but he's not quite Scott Drew bad, either. Providence has a solid foundation, a coach who has shown signs of being a good recruiter, and a moderately passionate fanbase. I think they'll make the tournament next year and possibly morth into a relevent program depending on whether Cooley sticks around.

These five programs by themselves aren't going to be anything special, but what happens if they add a few more schools? I don't pay attention to conference re-alignment as much as you guys do, but I've heard rumblings of Butler, VCU, Creighton, and Temple. If you add three of those schools, suuddenly you've got two of the best young coaches in America on your payroll, plus three of the best mid-majors in the country. Does that not become a 5-6 bid league, or a rich man's version of the A-10? I realize football is the cash cow here, but it's been proven in the past that great coaching can overcome a lot.

Clearly, if this all comes to fruition, the Catholic Conference would be a preferable destination to whatever the Big East looks like now. Is it a realistic option? Probably not. Still, this seems like the first time in the programs history where there is a conflict of interest between football fans and basketball fans (unless, of course, you believe the BCS schools will eventually branch off and teams like Providence and Seton Hall will virtually become D-2 schools).

So I guess, the question then becomes, "can you sustain a top-notch basketball program without football?" Most people seem to be saying no, but I'm not sure I agree. I could probably be convinced otherwise, though.

Thoughts?

 

[geordi]

Depends what you mean by 'top-notch.' Gonzaga? Butler? At that level, sure! But realistically, even with Butler in the Final 2 years in a row, I don't think they had much of a chance to actually win. The last time a non D1 football school won was 27 years ago. Nova in 85 and Georgetown in 84 just before them.

 

[ddminct]

Agree for the most part but UConn won in 1999

 

[alexd]

It's interesting how many fans of the CYO7 schools talk as if they are doing a favor to schools like Butler, VCU, X & Creighton with potential invites to this grand new league. But it's the CYO7 that really needs a bunch of these schools to beef up the top of the league. Only G-Town and maybe MU can hang with those potential invitees right now.

 

[UConnSwag11]

i think if they can get butler and two more good teams theyll be a good conference and last

 

[huskiesnyc]

Hell no

 

[mcs333]

Very good conf.. There are a ton of BB players out there. They will do well.

 

[caw]

A lot depends on if, when and how the football schools break away. If they break away from the NCAA soonish (3-5 years) and do so in all sports, any team not invited will be relegated to second-class.

The C7 do have a few advantages: DC, Chicago, NYC, Providence, Philadelphia, and Milwaukee are all decent sized to large cities. Georgetown actually carries a good amount of DC. DePaul does nothing in Chicago. SJU/SH bring very little from NYC. Providence is winning a battle but only because the other two local programs (URI and Brown) are relatively worse most years. Nova splits Philly at least 5 ways. Marquette may do well in Milwaukee but Wisconsin will always outdraw in the state. Pretty much they are all second (or lower) class citizens in their home states (if not home cities).

They have two currently good programs (Marquette and Georgetown) and two more that have history (Villanova and SJU). The other three (PC, DePaul and SHU) have some history but have sucked for so long, most 20 year olds weren't alive during their glory years.

Because they don't carry states they will always receive lower pay than bigger state schools and bigger BCS private schools.

The longer the dollar amount difference stays in place the harder it is for these C7 to maintain (or become) powers. College basketball largely relies on coaches and it's going to be hard for most of the C7 to keep their coaches when the big football schools can offer a ton more (esp. going forward). Teams that aren't in the big 3-4-5 conferences will need to get lucky with loyal coaches (same applies to UConn) or they will be stuck as stepping stone programs. It's probably one of the reasons PC fans love Cooley, he seems like a NE guy who loves PC. Georgetown is probably set. The other 5 are question marks, IMO.

 

[BoatShow]

If they add BC!

 

[uconNYC]

Really depends on how the league is perceived by recruits. Will it be looked at as the East Coast version of the WCC or will it be considered a rival to the ACC and B1G?

 

[MCNPA]

Really depends on how the league is perceived by recruits. Will it be looked at as the East Coast version of the WCC or will it be considered a rival to the ACC and B1G?

The conference IMO will be strong top to bottom. The truth is that the future will be written by performance on the court. I don't think many leagues will have the top to bottom depth that this new league will likely have because the schools being recruited to fill the slots are going to be successful basketball schools. It will be built around basketball. Hard to tell just yet, but I think the formula is right. Fwiw, I heard Xavier and Butler are already "in". Not sure who else just yet, but it's a good start.

 

[huskyharry]

Fifteen to twenty years ago it used to be thought that being a football school was a big detriment to having a successful basketball program, mostly because the administration would not really care about basketball. I remember the announcers saying what a shock it was that Florida was so successful when they won two NCAAs in a row.
The logic that basketball will just dry up without the big money from football is flawed.
In general, it will still be difficult for programs where football is king to be very successful, for,the same reasons that this has always been true (despite exceptions like Florida).
The Catholic League will be a strong conference.

 

[Mano]

The longer the dollar amount difference stays in place the harder it is for these C7 to maintain (or become) powers. College basketball largely relies on coaches and it's going to be hard for most of the C7 to keep their coaches when the big football schools can offer a ton more (esp. going forward). Teams that aren't in the big 3-4-5 conferences will need to get lucky with loyal coaches (same applies to UConn) or they will be stuck as stepping stone programs. It's probably one of the reasons PC fans love Cooley, he seems like a NE guy who loves PC. Georgetown is probably set. The other 5 are question marks, IMO.

This. Beyond JTIII the rest of the coaches in this potential league and the potential school's coaches in this potential league potentially could get poached by a big bad football school with a potential coaching vacancy. Smart and Stevens have both shown pote... they are capable of running a decent program. Although they've both rebuffed all overtures so far, it won't take long before a school will throw enough at them to get them to bite. Wright with the right mix of players and a good run in a future tourney could be out the door too. After that, like caw said, they'll just be stepping stone school with a good year here or there. Oh, and the cellar dwellars will just suck the life out of the rest of them.

 

[whaler11]

Depends on your definition of success.