Why doesn't the Pac-12 grab the Oklahoma schools now?

[shizzle787]

Yes, I know the GOR. However, I am not buying they can't get out of it. I believe the Pac-12 has already denied these two if it doesn't include the Texas (Tech) duo. However, if they can get out of the GOR, why wouldn't the Pac-12 strike when they still have a chance. Of course, this would be to our benefit as one of our future rivals for a B1G spot (OU) would be out of the picture, and we would probably end up in the Big 12 (upgrade).

 

[CTMike]

Because GOR.

 

[sportsart]

Fresh subject. Yay!!

 

[NYUConn]

In all seriousness, I can't remember where I read it recently, but story has it that Larry Scott couldn't sell Oklahoma/OK State alone to a majority of the PAC-10.

Basically the schools had no interest in traveling to Norman and Stillwater and Oklahoma and OSU as research institutions didn't measure up in the eyes of Cal and Stanford etc.

Colorado and Utah represented fresh, large markets with institutions that were closer to the rest of the league as peers academically.

So to answer your question, OU isn't in the Pac12 cause they aren't wanted.

 

[Jae-VT]

Yes, I know the GOR. However, I am not buying they can't get out of it. I believe the Pac-12 has already denied these two if it doesn't include the Texas (Tech) duo. However, if they can get out of the GOR, why wouldn't the Pac-12 strike when they still have a chance. Of course, this would be to our benefit as one of our future rivals for a B1G spot (OU) would be out of the picture, and we would probably end up in the Big 12 (upgrade).

Remember during the Cold War years, America and Russia never went to war because of M.A.D. (Mutually Assured Destruction). Same principle applies, prove that the Big-12 G.O.R. is invalid could then be used to show that the PAC-12 G.O.R. could then be invalid. The stability brought about by the GORs is currently worth more to the P5 conferences than the chaos/uncertainty without them. Hence why, so far at least, the P5 conferences are a bidding by the GORs.

 

[Jae-VT]

In all seriousness, I can't remember where I read it recently, but story has it that Larry Scott couldn't sell Oklahoma/OK State alone to a majority of the PAC-10.

Basically the schools had no interest in traveling to Norman and Stillwater and Oklahoma and OSU as research institutions didn't measure up in the eyes of Cal and Stanford etc.

Colorado and Utah represented fresh, large markets with institutions that were closer to the rest of the league as peers academically.

So to answer your question, OU isn't in the Pac12 cause they aren't wanted.

If memory serves correctly, Boren mentioned recently in an interview that the PAC-12 rejection left a bad taste in his mouth and "bridges were burned" is the metaphor he used in the interview. So I believe the feeling is mutual between the PAC-12 and OU. If, and that is a big IF, OU does leave the Big-12, imho, it would be for the BIG only. Assuming the BIG wanted OU of course. Makes sense to me, but others have a different opinion. Time will tell whose opinion is correct.

 

[MattMang23]

Yes, I know the GOR

Great. We can lock the thread now.

 

[frankthetank]

So to answer your question, OU isn't in the Pac12 cause they aren't wanted.

Correction: OU isn't in the Pac-12 because *Oklahoma State* isn't wanted. Every other P5 league (yes, including the academically-oriented Big Ten) would take Oklahoma in a heartbeat if they came *alone*. The problem is that OU has NOT been able to propose to go anywhere *alone* up to this point and they may never be able to do politically. The Pac-12 was willing to do a package deal with OSU and Texas Tech included when both Texas and Oklahoma were part of it, but they weren't willing to do a package deal just for OU. That is a VERY important distinction that needs to be clarified. No one should have the impression that Oklahoma *alone* isn't wanted. Indeed, OU is clearly one of the most valuable commodities in the realignment marketplace by far, but local state politics might prevent them from going anywhere by itself without Oklahoma State... and THAT is what limits OU's options.

 

[Dooley]

Correction: OU isn't in the Pac-12 because *Oklahoma State* isn't wanted. Every other P5 league (yes, including the academically-oriented Big Ten) would take Oklahoma in a heartbeat if they came *alone*. The problem is that OU has NOT been able to propose to go anywhere *alone* up to this point and they may never be able to do politically. The Pac-12 was willing to do a package deal with OSU and Texas Tech included when both Texas and Oklahoma were part of it, but they weren't willing to do a package deal just for OU. That is a VERY important distinction that needs to be clarified. No one should have the impression that Oklahoma *alone* isn't wanted. Indeed, OU is clearly one of the most valuable commodities in the realignment marketplace by far, but local state politics might prevent them from going anywhere by itself without Oklahoma State... and THAT is what limits OU's options.

I don't see OSU as being wanted by the SEC either. I think in order for OU to leave, it needs to break free from its in-state deadweight. We've heard a lot about Kansas and their AAU membership. Do you think it's possible that OU is partnered with KU for PAC? OU would have to spit in the face of its state politicians (and anger an already angry T Boone), but I can see the PAC wanting that combo for the same reason I can see the B1G wanting it. FB/BB mix and KU's AAU helps to "lift" OU's academic profile.

 

[Rocktheworld]

I don't see OSU as being wanted by the SEC either. I think in order for OU to leave, it needs to break free from its in-state deadweight. We've heard a lot about Kansas and their AAU membership. Do you think it's possible that OU is partnered with KU for PAC? OU would have to spit in the face of its state politicians (and anger an already angry T Boone), but I can see the PAC wanting that combo for the same reason I can see the B1G wanting it. FB/BB mix and KU's AAU helps to "lift" OU's academic profile.

The only reason I'll be okay with UConn not getting in to the B12 is that without expansion (and likely even with, considering Texas's termperament) the conference will eventually fail, freeing up KU as our travel partner to the B1G, or perhaps WVU as our partner to the ACC. This will be the biggest and final rush of realignment as long as the NCAA exists. Texas and a buddy such as Tech go PAC, OU and OSU to SEC. I don't see why the SEC wouldn't take an OSU if it means they get OU. I don't think any Oklahoma school is going to the PAC without Texas.

 

[Fishy]

Nobody is going to spend $75,000,000-80,ooo,ooo on the state of Oklahoma.

 

[Stinger92860]

I don't understand all this love for Oklahoma. It's no longer a national brand. Oklahoma is only slightly larger in population then CT, but they have in-state competition. We have per capita income and proximity to NYC and Boston. Oh, almost forgot. Our Football is 'd right now. Thanks Bob.

 

[UConnSportsGuy]

I don't see why the SEC wouldn't take an OSU if it means they get OU. I don't think any Oklahoma school is going to the PAC without Texas.

The SEC is the alpha and can pick and choose who they take. They are not going to be "pushed in to" taking OSU as a second school in OK. The SEC has turned down schools like Clemson and Florida State because of duplicative markets/states. So there is no chance they take OSU with Oklahoma.

However, if Oklahoma goes to the B1G/PAC, then I could see a scenario where OSU gets in to the SEC on their own. An SEC expansion of Virginia Tech, NC State, Texas Tech/TCU, and Oklahoma St would be very attractive to the SEC. But this only happens if the ACC blows up (Virginia and UNC going to the B1G). However, would the SEC take Oklahoma St and Texas Tech/TCU as a two team expansion if the B12 blows up? Possibly. But I see exactly 0 chance that the SEC takes both Oklahoma and Oklahoma St.

 

[dayooper]

I don't understand all this love for Oklahoma. It's no longer a national brand. Oklahoma is only slightly larger in population then CT, but they have in-state competition. We have per capita income and proximity to NYC and Boston. Oh, almost forgot. Our Football is 'd right now. Thanks Bob.

OU is a traditional football king that people will watch, especially against schools like Michigan, OSU, Nebraska, Alabama, USC and the like. Probably not enough to get the BTN in a higher rate, but they have pull in Dallas (even before they were in the Big12). They have a very good athletic department and would be a boon for any conference, as long as they don't have to bring OSU.

 

[dayooper]

The SEC is the alpha and can pick and choose who they take. They are not going to be "pushed in to" taking OSU as a second school in OK. The SEC has turned down schools like Clemson and Florida State because of duplicative markets/states. So there is no chance they take OSU with Oklahoma.

However, if Oklahoma goes to the B1G/PAC, then I could see a scenario where OSU gets in to the SEC on their own. An SEC expansion of Virginia Tech, NC State, Texas Tech/TCU, and Oklahoma St would be very attractive to the SEC. But this only happens if the ACC blows up (Virginia and UNC going to the B1G). However, would the SEC take Oklahoma St and Texas Tech/TCU as a two team expansion if the B12 blows up? Possibly. But I see exactly 0 chance that the SEC takes both Oklahoma and Oklahoma St.

The ACC isn't blowing up. They just signed an extension and they want to be together. Forget about ACC schools leaving. I would argue that the SEC is not the alpha dog. Many school administrators just don't want to be associated with the perception of the SEC. Texas wants no part. The Oklahoma Pres and BoR is reported to have the SEC last on their list of acceptable options. Win at all costs schools would have them first, but many schools want no part of the perceived win at all costs culture down there.

 

[frankthetank]

I don't see OSU as being wanted by the SEC either. I think in order for OU to leave, it needs to break free from its in-state deadweight. We've heard a lot about Kansas and their AAU membership. Do you think it's possible that OU is partnered with KU for PAC? OU would have to spit in the face of its state politicians (and anger an already angry T Boone), but I can see the PAC wanting that combo for the same reason I can see the B1G wanting it. FB/BB mix and KU's AAU helps to "lift" OU's academic profile.

All of the other P5 conferences (including the Big Ten) would take an OU/KU combo in a heartbeat. There is not a single doubt in my mind on that front. Outside of Texas, that combo is the single most valuable *realistic* combo of schools that would move in the near future. The problem is that Kansas has a similar political problem with Kansas State as Oklahoma as with Oklahoma State.

Of course, there's a Catch-22 situation for OU and KU. The only way that they could justifiably leave their in-state "little brothers" from a political standpoint is if the Big 12 is legitimately crumbling. However, outside of Texas deciding to leave on its own, the only other way that the Big 12 would legitimately crumble is if OU and/or KU decide to leave. It's not a viable political argument to scream, "The Big 12 is crumbling! We need to live State behind!" when they're the ones proactively causing the crumbling. The only way that OU and KU can leave on their own is in a reactive situation, which is much tougher since that would only happen if Texas decides to go off by itself. That is what is limiting the options of OU and KU (or else both of them would have joined one of the other P5 leagues a long time ago without question).

 

[frankthetank]

I don't understand all this love for Oklahoma. It's no longer a national brand. Oklahoma is only slightly larger in population then CT, but they have in-state competition. We have per capita income and proximity to NYC and Boston. Oh, almost forgot. Our Football is 'd right now. Thanks Bob.

That's an insane statement, man. Oklahoma is absolutely a national brand (so much so that it's one of the few schools that the Big Ten would overlook academic issues for), it DOMINATES its home market at NFL viewership levels even if there's in-state competition, and if you're going to say that UConn has proximity to NYC and Boston as a plus, then you absolutely have to give the Dallas-Fort Worth market to OU since they have the #2 fan base there behind UT *and* DFW is one of the best college football markets out there among the largest TV markets (so DFW viewers actually *watch* OU and others). Adding OU would do more to bring a conference the Texas market for a conference for TV purposes than any other school actually located in Texas besides UT and A&M. Underrating freaking Oklahoma in the conference realignment marketplace is absolutely nuts. You might as well say that conferences won't want Notre Dame because it only brings the South Bend market.

ALL of the other P5 leagues would add Oklahoma immediately. Period. The only thing holding them back is that they're politically obligated to take Oklahoma State with them. I'd say the same about Kansas (with the only thing holding them back is that they're politically obligated to take Kansas State with them).

 

[c29328]

You are dealing with old men and institutional memories of 50 plus years. In that prism Oklahoma is a blue blood and well worth it to a football first conference. It's not all about who is hot now or even interesting. I would not go out of my way to watch an Oklahoma game like I might a Michigan or Ohio State or the new guys like an Oregon but I can't deny they are somebody. And likely will be for a long time.

 

[Stinger92860]

That's an insane statement, man. Oklahoma is absolutely a national brand (so much so that it's one of the few schools that the Big Ten would overlook academic issues for), it DOMINATES its home market at NFL viewership levels even if there's in-state competition, and if you're going to say that UConn has proximity to NYC and Boston as a plus, then you absolutely have to give the Dallas-Fort Worth market to OU since they have the #2 fan base there behind UT *and* DFW is one of the best college football markets out there among the largest TV markets (so DFW viewers actually *watch* OU and others). Adding OU would do more to bring a conference the Texas market for a conference for TV purposes than any other school actually located in Texas besides UT and A&M. Underrating freaking Oklahoma in the conference realignment marketplace is absolutely nuts. You might as well say that conferences won't want Notre Dame because it only brings the South Bend market.

ALL of the other P5 leagues would add Oklahoma immediately. Period. The only thing holding them back is that they're politically obligated to take Oklahoma State with them. I'd say the same about Kansas (with the only thing holding them back is that they're politically obligated to take Kansas State with them).

Comparing ND and Oklahoma does not work because ND is a national brand and can easily deliver a national tv market. How does Oklahoma bring value to the B1G if they have to bring tv's. Do you believe there are enough households in Oklahoma to bring the same value as the current B1G contract pays? I don't see how the math works. The math is harder for Kansas.

 

[whaler11]

I generally agree with FTT. I don't see how simple math allows for a KU/OU combo to the Big 10.

The short deal for big money was a great compromise. I don't believe that when 2024 rolls around anyone in the Big 10 is going to want 2 more mouths to feed - one that has no population and the other that has a worse fb program than Eastern Michigan.