Who would make your list of Huskies who left early that had the biggest and lowest impact? | The Boneyard

Who would make your list of Huskies who left early that had the biggest and lowest impact?

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Let me start off by saying I don't like framing this discussion from a disappointment or expectation standpoint which can be highly subjective, though expectation is sort of built in based on a players ranking and/or hype coming in.

Big Impact Short-timers:

Nadav Henefeld - He was a virtual unknown who along with Chris Smith and the rest of the 1990 team put UConn on the National college hoops map. The Dove was our first one-and-doner. It looked like the team was built to have another big time run the following year, but that changed when he decided to stay back in Israel and begin his pro career.

Donyell - I think he was a 3-and-done, but was a very productive player during all 3 years and I believe was a runner-up for National POY. I think Glenn Robinson got that honor. He had some monster games at MSG. Unfortunately the last memory many of us have are his 2 missed FTs against UF in the S-16 (might have been the E-8) that would have won the game, but instead our Huskies lost in OT. Seeing how much a tweener Donyell was during the first part of his NBA career, it does seem that he left at the right time. He actually put up some very good offensive numbers when he first started out as a rookie, but his team quickly discovered that he was a liability due to his difficulties with trying to cover quicker 3s and stronger 4s. It wasn't until he began to fill up and play as a more mobile 4 man on a team that had size in the post (Jazz next to Malone) that he began to flourish.

Ray - Although he played Jesus in He Got Game, he didn't quite walk on water at UConn, but came close. Like Donyell he had some memorable monster games and bit time shots. His BET winning runner against GT continues to be replayed year after year. Unlike Donyell, our lasting memory of him was a monster 30+ point game in a E-8 loss to UCLA, the one team that most felt played UConn's up tempo style of play but did so better. Ray put up moderate numbers his freshman year, but could have easily averaged more if he had been given more PT. I believe Ray was also a 3-and-doner. As best I can remember, Ray put up good offensive numbers the moment he stepped on an NBA court. Similar to Donyell, it was his defensive problems that cost him PT and bigger numbers. For whatever reason, Ray developed into an adequate defender when he joined the Cs, but it sure took a long time.

Rip - If Donyell or Ray didn't stamp UConn as Wing-U, Rip sealed the deal. Like the two prior wings, Ray contributed at a very high level from day 1 and left the program as an elite scorer. Unlike those two, he was able to lead his team to our first NC. Like many of his predecessors, Rip was not a very good defender in college nor in the pros. Rip put up good numbers as a rookie, and those numbers steadily grew. Unlike Ray, his lack of defense has cost him a lot of PT in recent years. He lacks the body type and strength to be a good defender, but still, I scratch my head as to why he's as bad at D as he is. For whatever reason, there are some players who are skilled and quick enough to create their own shot at the NBA level, but simply can't stay in front of their man on D. Hooper and I have discussed this a number of times and think that part of it has to do with some combination of a lack of instincts, reaction time, quickness with their first step and sometimes strength. If an NBA guard or wing gets a fraction of a step on the defender, if you're not strong enough the simply gain the corner and blow right by them. You have to be either very quick or strong, but to be a lock-down-defender in the NBA you probably have to have both. Rip simply ain't getting there...ever.

Caron - Two-and-done. He arguably started out his freshman campaign better than any freshman during the JC era. He led the team in many categories, including scoring, but hit a wall during the 2nd half of his freshman season which carried on to the first half of his sophomore season. Just as many were saying that he was no way ready for the NBA, he put on a dominating 2nd half and post season run. He carried a young team that couldn't get by a talented upper-class laden Maryland team. I've often wondered if UConn would have won NC #2 that next season if he had returned for one more year. Caron was not only NBA ready, but also NBA draft ready. He pretty much had an NBA body when he arrived at UConn, though some bogus rumor right before the draft about some injury caused by a bullet to the knee probably cost him a number of places in that draft. Once he corrected his J (seemed to flatten out during the middle of his UConn career, but it stared falling at a big time clip once he realize all he had to do was add a little arc) he was able to score from all over the court and continued that ability into the NBA. He's been one of the most consistent scorers. Injuries have slowed him at times. He's a tad undersized which has made him an average at best defender. Hum...what is it with UConn's wings? As defensive minded JC is, he rarely gets scoring wings who can defend. I think much of this is due to him not getting his plan-A wings, but still does a pretty damn good job of finding talented offensive ones that he develops into very good to elite scorers. Although Denham and Shad were 4 year players they both fit the good offensive wing but not so good defender category. But I digress...

Emeka - Three-and-done. Big time defensive player years one and two, but developed into a force on both ends of the floor. He left UConn early but not before delivering NC #2. He was the first of our bigs who could take away the paint by blocking shots. He's definitely one who left at the right time for his sake. I think if he returned for another season, his offense would not have developed much more than what we saw and could have cost him some draft spots due to a lack of perceived upside. When you look at his NBA development, it seems to point to a limited offensive player. Now some blame the franchise and coaching there in Charlotte, which has some merit. Frankly, I don't know why Emeka hasn't developed more of a post game. He's been a solid, lunch-pail type of big that defends, blocks shots and rebounds. His offensive numbers have been modest.

Ben - Three-and-done. Big time scorer who got better each year and like the wings of the past left the program as an elite scorer. Before Kemba was Kemba, Ben was Ben, a scoring guard that could torch you from outside and at the rim. Teaming with Emeka, he delivered NC #2. I can pretty much copy some of the same rhetoric from above as to being a wonderful offensive player but a liability on defense. Ben is the poster child to the head-scratching "how is it that he's athletic and skilled enough to create his own shot, but can't guard a chair?" Part of it is due to him being an undersized 2G. He simply doesn't have PG instincts, and is over over-matched physically by his 2G counterpart. But still, he should be able to stay in front of his man a lot better than he as demonstrated over the years. All in all, I think most would agree, Ben left while his stock was at its highest. He probably would have risked dropping in the following year's draft if he had returned to UConn plus never made up the money he would have left on the table.

Hasheem Thabeet - I almost forgot about Hash. I believe he was a three-and-done. Like Emeka he was a dominating defensive force and one of many who kept that blocks/game record going for, what, 7 years? His offense came around, but not to nearly to the dominating level that we saw with his shot-blocking. He's a perfect example of a player who was not NBA ready but clearly NBA draft ready. Staying another year would have cost him a year's earnings, plus if he did not improve, the perceived low upside, could have cost him draft spots and millions. IMO, his impact was huge, but due to a disappointing post season run and unfinished business. Wasn't he part of the group that never won a BET game? No doubt the team would have benefited from him returning for another year, but he would not have benefited financially. I guess one could argue that he could have been more NBA ready so that he could produce during his first contract so that he could earn a solid 2nd one, but I'm not so sure. His length helped him dominate at the college level, but his lack of strength, quickness and possibly work ethic are things that he might not have been able to overcome regardless to when he left for the NBA. He just might be a case of take the money when you can.

Kemba - Three-and-done. Similar to Ben, his numbers grew with each year. While Ben was a better 3 pt shooter, Kemba is arguably the best all-around-scoring combo guard we've ever had. Kemba delivered an unexpected NC #3. As for lasting memories, he had many, but the McGhee ankle-breaker tops the list. UConn would have benefited from him returning, but there seems little doubt that his stock was probably at its highest last summer. He probably wouldn't be any more NBA ready if he returned and by waiting a year he would have left a lot of money on the table.

Lamb - Two-and-done. Jeremy's built on what he did during the post season of his freshman season, but seemed to level off as his sophomore season went on. I put him in this group since he was a big part of helping UConn win NC #3. IMO, some of his liabilities were exposed, such as a not-so-quick first step, poor defender, in ability to drive by most college guards and wings and a lack of assertiveness with his offense. There's little doubt that he has a lot of shot making ability. He has one of the best floaters since the Iceman Gervin and has NBA range on his 3 ball. He's got very good hands, long arms and should develop into a very good rebounding 2G once he gets bigger and stronger. I just think he's going to struggle to create his own shot and will be more like a Rip Hamilton screen and catch (something he didn't seem to do very often at UConn) or a long range bomber like Reggie Williams who could set up his drive off his deep scoring threat. Maybe he'll be a better driver than I'm giving him credit once he gets stronger and gains confidence in his abilities, but I think he lacks a quick first step and will struggle to gain that edge on the defender. At times he shows a nice knack for passing, but I don't see enough of it. Maybe if his role is more balanced at the next level, he could develop into a nice combo guard. He's got a plus handle for a kid his size and could develop into a guard who can slide over at times to play the 1, though defensively I think he's going to be challenged similar as Rip has. Maybe as he fills out a little more strength along with those long arms of his will help him hold his own on D. I just didn't see much improvement in that part of his game. I think he's probably entering the draft with his stock as high as it will ever be. He might have gone higher last season if he had declared. We'll have to see how high he'll go. I have a feeling he's going to go lower (bigger #) than many mock sites and analysts predict.

Not-so-big Impact Short-timers:

Charlie - Two-and-done. Although he was a contributor to 2nd-NC team in 2004, he was wildly inconsistent during his two years at UConn and put up moderate to low numbers for a player ranked as high as he was. If he had returned for another season, he would have had a monster year and left us with many lasting memories. Without looking it up, I can't remember how high he was drafted, but like many underclassmen who jump to the NBA, they might not be NBA ready, but they are NBA draft ready. I realize there is an argument for not going too early so that you perform well during your first contract so that you get a big time 2nd one. But there are risks they run by staying another year in college. If they get injured they can completely miss out on a big pay day. If they don't improve or their numbers go down, not only do they leave one years worth of earnings on the table, but they also run the risk of getting drafter later in the first round or falling to the 2nd where the money is not guaranteed.

Rudy - Two-and-done. Not only did his teams underachieve, he struggled to put up consistent numbers, not to mention his tendency to dispensary late in games. Many might have forgotten that JC has established Rudy as his primary scorer at the beginning of his sophomore season, but as the season went on, he began to spread out the offense and had it no longer run through Rudy. Denham & Shad took a greater role especially late in games due to Rudy's inconsistent play, struggles with creating his own shot, struggles with finishing and his overall inconsistencies. When Rudy was on, he was a fantastic shot-maker. If he had returned for one more year, most felt he would have had a monster year. I said all along, that Rudy's best days were far ahead of him a couple to a few years into his NBA career, which we all now know is the case. He's hit a number of big winning-time shots in the NBA, something that he simply struggled with at UConn. He's one that I really wish we got another year out of. IMO, he's one of the greatest NBA Huskies that left us with far too few memories. Rudy was drafted very high, much on potential. If he returned for another season, I think he would have improved his game and might have improved his draft position a few spots, but it probably wouldn't have been worth it. He was able to develop into a productive wing by his second and third season, setting himself up for a big pay day for his next contract.

Ajou Deng - I was reluctant to include him. He had to sit out his first year. Had an injury filled 2nd year. Butted heads with JC and his lack of foot speed and overall skill made it clear that he was not what many had thought. He couldn't even develop into a good mid-major player at Fairfield. The problem was we got the wrong "Deng" kid (bad pun in reference to his brother who went to dook and now plays for the bulls). He's a kid that should have jumped to the NBA before he ever set foot on a college court. If on potential alone he could have gotten a late 1st round pick he would have been set before people realized how little talent he had. If he slipped to the 2nd round with a non-guaranteed contract, he would have earned very little, but then again, he couldn't even achieve that after his career at Fairfield ended.

Drummond - One-and-done. Although he did about what I expected, his impact was moderate at best. Some expected him to dominate due to his #2 recruiting rank and hype, but history has told me that most bigs take a while to develop and tend to put up wild inconsistent results as freshman and often even as sophomores. They tend to get into early foul trouble which completely messes with their heads, not to mention the box score. With that said, I expected him to improve from a bad FT shooter to a not quite as bad. Instead he went from horrible to even more horrible. The other part that I expected more was rebounding. He and Alex simply didn't box out. I still scratch my head as to why. Some bigs simply can't get out of the habit that they got into in HS. They could simply pull down 20 rbs due to being so much bigger, stronger and often more athletic than their opponent, something where the gap closes significantly in college. I think if he returns he would show a lot of improvement in a number of areas as long as he works hard. But since he'll likely be one of the top 3 chosen in this year's draft, he really can't improve his earning situation any. I don't think he has to worry about bombing out during his first contract where he would be exposed and not get a big time 2nd one. I think he's plenty athletic and talented to figure it out during the next 3 seasons. He would likely never earn back the money he would leave on the table, and if he gets injured or doesn't improve as much as expected, he could drop in the draft next year. Now if he feels he's not ready and wants to enjoy another season in college, then that would be okay too. More money than he can ever spend is awaiting him. Once he joins the men's game, his youth is all but behind him. We tend to take that lightly. If he returns for one year, he might play himself into the above category, but I wouldn't be shocked if he still had an inconsistent year and not be a dominating force. Three years with his talent at UConn, definitely! One, no! Two...maybe. But I think this is all a moot point because I doubt he comes back.

I'm not sure if I missed some other underclassmen that left for the NBA. Marcus Williams? Did AJ Price leave with eligibility left? I don't think so. Who did I miss?
 

UCweCONN

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Yes, I read today that Drummond was the first one and done at UCONN but he wasn't, Nadav was. Granted he was 21 or 22 when he arrived but still a freshman and left after one season. For the least impact, I'd go with Ater Majok, Ajou Deng, and Curtis Kelly in that order. I know they didn't leave for the NBA but still. Villanueva was a solid contributor on a championship team so I would give him credit for that. I think he was a very good player for us.
 
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Let me start off by saying I don't like framing this discussion from a disappointment or expectation standpoint which can be highly subjective, though expectation is sort of built in based on a players ranking and/or hype coming in........
I agree with your list. As Kitaman mentioned Khalid is a big impact. Where would you list Marcus Williams and Josh Boone? I would actually place JB as big impact for his role in 2004, a championship year. His junior season was a bit of a disappointment, though. Marcus Williams had two terrific seasons as our point guard, but made a lot of negative impact off the court and in the classroom. For me, it is harder to list him as big impact unless the impact is from a negative standpoint.
 
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I agree with your list. As Kitaman mentioned Khalid is a big impact. Where would you list Marcus Williams and Josh Boone? I would actually place JB as big impact for his role in 2004, a championship year. His junior season was a bit of a disappointment, though. Marcus Williams had two terrific seasons as our point guard, but made a lot of negative impact off the court and in the classroom. For me, it is harder to list him as big impact unless the impact is from a negative standpoint.
I can't believe I completely forgot about Khalid. He definately left his mark at UConn turning out to be the missing ingredient to UConn's first NC. It would have been nice to get another year out of him, but his stock was probably at it's highest when he left. He was at risk of not improving much if he returned, possibly casting a perception of low upside.

I thought MW left as a junior. I'd put him in the top group. He was one of the most all around offensive PGs we've had. He could score when needed and distribute the ball when that's what was needed to win. His downside was his lack of quickness which showed on the defensive end of the floor. I wonder if he could have improved his draft position if he had returned for another season. Like many college players who stay too long, a lack of improvement could have cast a perception of a lack of upside and it could have gone the other way for him.

I was wondering about Boone if he left as a Junior. Was that the case? If so, I'd put him in the top group.
 
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Good post DM. I was really disappointed when I heard the news of Drummond going pro. Not that I could blame him, but I thought there was a chance he could have returned and had a monster season. Unfortunately, I think the kid made the wrong decision, although what do I know? He just didn't look mature enough for the NBA at this point in time. He'll have a long, probably successful career, I just have to think he would have had a better chance of being dominant had he returned.
 
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Out of the players that left early for the NBA, Andre in my opinion had the lowest impact. He is a nice kid. He will make some good money, but will have to work really hard to become a good basketball player.
 
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Good list, brings back some memories. I think you overemphasize NBA defense in your discussion though. NBA wings are generally poor defenders because NBA wings are really, really good scorers. Otherwise they wouldn't be NBA wings.

Rip Hamilton was the best player on an NBA championship team, nuff said. Ray Allen has been an elite NBA scorer for 15 years, nuff said.
 

willie99

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Josh Boone, no substantive impact in college or the pros

other guys that left early that I haven't seen listed

Marcus Williams & Ater Mojak

Marcus was a great college player. Ater we hardly knew, didn't do anything while here. But we won the national championship when he left and everyone was predicting doom and gloom. does that count for anything?
 

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I think Chaz was a big impact. Part of a BE and national title (especially big in the BET in 04), and he was sensational down the stretch in 2005, averaging something like 20-12 which is why he left
 
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I think you need a middle category for a few players.

This is where I would put these guys: Boone, M. Williams, Charlie, Rudy.

I don't think any of then should be in the top group, since they fall just short of some of the criteria.

Boone was a huge, huge contributor to the NC team. Without Boone, Uconn doesn't win against Duke in the Final Four. He may not have progressed as everyone hoped, but that alone gets him some major points.

M. Williams was the best player on the 2005 team that made it all the way to the E8 and had only 3-4 losses on the year.

Charlie also contributed on the 2004 NC team and by the end of his sophmore year, was getting pretty dominant. If not for a Julius Hodge buzzer beater, who knows how far that team could've gone.

Rudy was an AA right? That's enough for me.

It's a tough call on the latter two guys because they were HUGE recruits. We all know how hard it is to fulfill or excefed expectations and how hard it is to win a NC. There are plenty of great player in the history of cbb that didn't get to a FF or win it all. I think we scrutinize UConn too much. Rudy and Charlie were pretty friggin good college guys and were great for the program.
 

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I can't believe I completely forgot about Khalid. He definately left his mark at UConn turning out to be the missing ingredient to UConn's first NC. It would have been nice to get another year out of him, but his stock was probably at it's highest when he left.

Khalid's stock was at it's highest the year before he left. If he went to the pro's coming off an NC and a Letterman apperarance he would have gone in the 1st round. Instead it was the 2nd round and obscurity.
 
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[quote="bobbygt, M. Williams was the best player on the 2005 team that made it all the way to the E8 and had only 3-4 losses on the year.[/quote]

2006. He stepped up bigtime in the NCAAA tourney that year. Both he and CV were the best players on the 2005 team.
 
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I think you need a middle category for a few players.

This is where I would put these guys: Boone, M. Williams, Charlie, Rudy.

I don't think any of then should be in the top group, since they fall just short of some of the criteria.

Boone was a huge, huge contributor to the NC team. Without Boone, Uconn doesn't win against Duke in the Final Four. He may not have progressed as everyone hoped, but that alone gets him some major points.

M. Williams was the best player on the 2005 team that made it all the way to the E8 and had only 3-4 losses on the year.

Charlie also contributed on the 2004 NC team and by the end of his sophmore year, was getting pretty dominant. If not for a Julius Hodge buzzer beater, who knows how far that team could've gone.

Rudy was an AA right? That's enough for me.

It's a tough call on the latter two guys because they were HUGE recruits. We all know how hard it is to fulfill or excefed expectations and how hard it is to win a NC. There are plenty of great player in the history of cbb that didn't get to a FF or win it all. I think we scrutinize UConn too much. Rudy and Charlie were pretty friggin good college guys and were great for the program.
I guess I could see why you would want a middle category for some of these guys. There is some subjectivity to all this. Like I said at the beginning, it's hard to completely take out "expectation" from the equation. As much as I like Rudy, I just feel his impact did not nearly live up to his abilities. I'm not saying that I expected a lot more during his two years. Some players, even the great ones, need time to develop. In his case, if he had returned for one more season my perception of him would be different. I think he would have had a monster year and learned to play his best during winning time, something that IMO escaped him at while he was at UConn. Take the loss to GM for instance. He had an excellent start but completely disappeared during the last 10 minutes of that game and OT...I think it went to OT, didn't it? I'm not saying Rudy should have returned for a 3rd year, but regardless, I don't nearly have the same types of memories about him as I do many of the other Husky greats such as Smitty, Dove, Ray, Donyell...Kemba, etc.

I don't see Boone & Williams in that category due to what was expected and I felt we got just about as much as we could from them. Hum...I think that's the criteria that resonates with me. I guess I don't have lasting memories that we got anywhere close to what they were capable of. The ones I listed in the 2nd group are ones that probably would have left a much bigger individual mark at UConn if they had stayed for another year. The ones in the top list, I felt they left the college game playing at a pretty high level and granted they would have clearly done more if they had returned, but I don't think it would have been a dramatic difference other than helping the team be more successful the next season...something that I don't mean to downplay.

Taking AD as an example. It is possible if he returned this upcoming season, he would show significant improvement in areas we felt he would excel at such as rebounding, defending, post scoring and overall consistency and bigger numbers. Being able to stay out of foul trouble and stay on the floor, which most sophomores begin to learn would have had a big impact on most of these things. He's simply leaving the college game as just a good college player with huge upside, instead of being an elite college player. We all look at this in different ways, but I feel the players in the top list all left as very good to elite college players and if they had returned for another season, I don't think the very good ones would have elevated their game to be perceived as elite college players, but maybe that wouldn't have been the case. For example, if Kemba hadn't returned for his junior season, we would all view him as a very good players. Instead he did return for that 3rd year and everyone saw him as an elite player even those who voted for the NPOY, which he finished a very close 2nd. I doubt that any of us thought he would develop into the player we saw last year before his junior season began, so you just never know.
 
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The bottom two have to be Majok and Drummond. You pick the order.
 
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I think Chaz was a big impact. Part of a BE and national title (especially big in the BET in 04), and he was sensational down the stretch in 2005, averaging something like 20-12 which is why he left
I'll have to look back at his stats. I really didn't think CV put up those types of numbers on any consistent basis even during his last season. His contribution to the 2nd NC is not to be ignored but he was more a role player who started to contribute late that season. For a player who was ranked in the top 5 (maybe 10) plus with his type of talent, I had hoped for a bigger contribution. I have so few memories of what he did on the court during his two years. Maybe many of you remember a lot more that I do.

He's one that I think could have had a monster junior year and improved his draft position if he had returned, but I think he still went pretty high and would have run the risk of dropping in the draft the following year if he didn't show enough improvement that there was much more upside to his game. Like Rudy, his better days were a few years into the NBA. I haven't seen much of him in the NBA. I'm surprised that with his size and skill, he has not developed into a better player. He's seems like a poor-man's Lamar Odem. I thought he would have developed into a player just as good as Lamar or even better.
 
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I'll have to look back at his stats. I really didn't think CV put up those types of numbers on any consistent basis even during his last season. His contribution to the 2nd NC is not to be ignored but he was more a role player who started to contribute late that season. For a player who was ranked in the top 5 (maybe 10) plus with his type of talent, I had hoped for a bigger contribution. I have so few memories of what he did on the court during his two years. Maybe many of you remember a lot more that I do.

He's one that I think could have had a monster junior year and improved his draft position if he had returned, but I think he still went pretty high and would have run the risk of dropping in the draft the following year if he didn't show enough improvement that there was much more upside to his game. Like Rudy, his better days were a few years into the NBA. I haven't seen much of him in the NBA. I'm surprised that with his size and skill, he has not developed into a better player. He's seems like a poor-man's Lamar Odem. I thought he would have developed into a player just as good as Lamar or even better.

What's happened to CV? He hasn't played this year and you are right, he has been a big disappointment in the NBA.
 
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I'll have to look back at his stats. I really didn't think CV put up those types of numbers on any consistent basis even during his last season. His contribution to the 2nd NC is not to be ignored but he was more a role player who started to contribute late that season. For a player who was ranked in the top 5 (maybe 10) plus with his type of talent, I had hoped for a bigger contribution. I have so few memories of what he did on the court during his two years. Maybe many of you remember a lot more that I do.

He's one that I think could have had a monster junior year and improved his draft position if he had returned, but I think he still went pretty high and would have run the risk of dropping in the draft the following year if he didn't show enough improvement that there was much more upside to his game. Like Rudy, his better days were a few years into the NBA. I haven't seen much of him in the NBA. I'm surprised that with his size and skill, he has not developed into a better player. He's seems like a poor-man's Lamar Odem. I thought he would have developed into a player just as good as Lamar or even better.
I recall posting at the time (and getting blasted for it) that Charlie really wasn't ready to go to the NBA and that I didn't expect much of a career for him. I always thought he was far too concerned with satisfying his "advisors" than doing what would be in his best interests. I think he was just starting to come into his own at the end of his sophomore year, and if his deelopment continued he could have been much much better. Very disappointing player.
 
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I recall posting at the time (and getting blasted for it) that Charlie really wasn't ready to go to the NBA and that I didn't expect much of a career for him. I always thought he was far too concerned with satisfying his "advisors" than doing what would be in his best interests. I think he was just starting to come into his own at the end of his sophomore year, and if his deelopment continued he could have been much much better. Very disappointing player.
FS, you have this wonderful way about you throwing our guys under the bus. Why do you have to say things like "very disappointing player"? Maybe he would have had a monster year if he returned for his junior season, but his NBA stock was high (first round) and I never blame any player who is going to get a guaranteed first round contract for taking it when it's there to be had.

I put him in that second group because he really needed that 3rd year to consistently show us what he was capable of. Contrast what we saw from CV with what Caron did during his 2 seasons and it was night and day.
 
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