What would Tennessee legend Pat Summitt have said about UConn’s Geno Auriemma breaking her wins record? (A must read)

[Carnac]

A very well written piece by Lori Riley Hartford Courant Jan 8, 2021

Retired Villanova women's basketball coach Harry Perretta, friends with both Geno Auriemma and Pat Summitt, is more impressed with the small amount of losses the three winningest women's basketball coaches have, while former Tennessee players and coaches reflect on what Summitt would think about Auriemma potentially tying her win record Saturday against Providence and moving into the No. 2 all-time wins spot behind Stanford coach Tara VanDerveer.

What would Tennessee legend Pat Summitt have said about UConn’s Geno Auriemma breaking her wins record? Maybe ‘It took him long enough’?

Forget about the wins. Harry Perretta wants you to look at the losses. Stanford women’s basketball coach Tara VanDerveer, who surpassed Pat Summitt as the all-time winningest women’s ba…

www.courant.com

As UConn’s Geno Auriemma approaches Pat Summitt’s win total of 1,098, here’s a look back at the coaching milestones he’s piled up across 36 seasons in Storrs

 

[meyers7]

A very well written piece by Lori Riley Hartford Courant Jan 8, 2021

Retired Villanova women's basketball coach Harry Perretta, friends with both Geno Auriemma and Pat Summitt, is more impressed with the small amount of losses the three winningest women's basketball coaches have, while former Tennessee players and coaches reflect on what Summitt would think about Auriemma potentially tying her win record Saturday against Providence and moving into the No. 2 all-time wins spot behind Stanford coach Tara VanDerveer.

What would Tennessee legend Pat Summitt have said about UConn’s Geno Auriemma breaking her wins record? Maybe ‘It took him long enough’?

Forget about the wins. Harry Perretta wants you to look at the losses. Stanford women’s basketball coach Tara VanDerveer, who surpassed Pat Summitt as the all-time winningest women’s ba…

www.courant.com

As UConn’s Geno Auriemma approaches Pat Summitt’s win total of 1,098, here’s a look back at the coaching milestones he’s piled up across 36 seasons in Storrs

Miss Lori. Wish she could write for UCONN WBB again.

 

[CL82]

Alternative link

 

[meyers7]

“She might say, ‘Well, it took him long enough,’” DeMoss said.

Ummm probably not, since Geno got there faster (3 years faster) than Pat.

 

[eebmg]

Add a little spice

Kellie Harper, who played for Summitt and now coaches at Tennessee, thought of a perfect answer (if Pat was asked about Geno breaking her record)

“She would probably look back at any game where she didn’t beat [Auriemma] and think what she could have done to postpone this number, maybe,” Harper said, laughing.


Question? What is Kelli Harper's playing record against UConn?

 

[Carnac]

Add a little spice

Kellie Harper, who played for Summitt and now coaches at Tennessee, thought of a perfect answer (if Pat was asked about Geno breaking her record)

“She would probably look back at any game where she didn’t beat [Auriemma] and think what she could have done to postpone this number, maybe,” Harper said, laughing.


Question? What is Kelli Harper's playing record against UConn?

Had Summitt not passed and continued coaching another 8-15 years (she was 59 at her passing), it's possible she would have pushed her record of 1098 wins much further into the stratosphere.

Hypothesis.......IF Summit was still coaching today, and If she would have won an average of 30-35 games a year, she would have had some where in the neighborhood of 1365-1385 wins.

What will be the NEW final career win total record be will Geno and Tara retire? Neither are showing any signs of retiring in the near future. Pat's 1098 was a revered record that stood as the benchmark until VanDerveer surpassed it last month, and Geno is expected to pass it next Wednesday vs Seton Hall.

Will THAT new record be one that will never be broken? Depending how how long they both continue to coach, that number could be somewhere between 1275-1350 games.

Note - Charlaine Vivian Stringer (Rutgers) is in her 50th year of coaching (1041-421). She's 72. It's very probable that both Geno (66) and Tara (67) coach well into their 70's.

 

[MilfordHusky]

Summitt, who died in 2016 of early onset dementia, Alzheimer’s type, stepped down from coaching at Tennessee after 38 years in the spring of 2012. She was only 59. If not for the onset of her illness in 2012, it's possible Summit would still be coaching today, and pushing her record of 1098 wins even further into the stratosphere.

Hypothesis.......IF Summit was still coaching today, she would have had 8 additional years to add to her legacy. If she would have won an average of 35 games a year, she would have had some where in the neighborhood of 1378 wins.

I don't think Pat would have been averaging 35 wins per season. Something like 25 is more realistic.

 

[Carnac]

I don't think Pat would have been averaging 35 wins per season. Something like 25 is more realistic.

OK, let's split the difference and say 30. I didn't check, but what was her average number of wins in her last 5 years of coaching? THAT would be the number I would use to project her number of potential wins going forward. Remember, I'm hypothesizing here, nothing more.

 

[MooseJaw]

Alternative link

went down this rabbit hole, and got my computer wiped out, granted I probably hit a wrong button, however on this link a wrong button should not have been there. No blame to you CL82 , just if you go to this link when it asks you to hit this button to continue be careful.

 

[CL82]

went down this rabbit hole, and got my computer wiped out, granted I probably hit a wrong button, however on this link a wrong button should not have been there. No blame to you CL82 , just if you go to this link when it asks you to hit this button to continue be careful.

I just clicked it and it takes you directly to the article. There is no second button to push. I suspect it was a coincidence, but if anyone else has an issue from the link please post about it here.

 

[BobbyJ]

went down this rabbit hole, and got my computer wiped out, granted I probably hit a wrong button, however on this link a wrong button should not have been there. No blame to you CL82 , just if you go to this link when it asks you to hit this button to continue be careful.

To be safe, just right click on any link and read it in Incognito Mode.

 

[Plebe]

Question? What is Kelli Harper's playing record against UConn?

Kellie Jolly was in the same class as Chamique Holdsclaw, i.e. the most successful class Tennessee has had, which is a high bar to meet. They won 3 national championships (1996-98), crowned by the undefeated 1998 team, and were the heavy favorites to with a 4th in 1999, only to go down in flames to an up-and-coming Duke squad (I'm sure @triaddukefan remembers that game well).

She also played in TN's only two postseason wins over UConn. (UConn's all-time postseason record vs. Tennessee is 5-2.)

Here were the games Jolly played in vs. UConn:

1/6/96 in Knoxville: UConn 53-59
3/29/96 in national semis: Tennessee, 88-83 OT
3/24/97 in regional final: Tennessee, 91-81
1/3/98 in Knoxville: Tennessee 84-69
1/10/99 at UConn: Tennessee 92-81
Overall playing record vs. UConn: 4-1

Due to injury, she did not play in UConn's win over TN on 1/5/97, and so I'm not counting it as part of her "playing record" vs. UConn.

 

[RegisteredUconn]

Per the article, Harry P. thinks the great teams are defined as those that had 4 (sometimes 5) losses. Geno, thus, has averaged a great team, i.e. less than 4 losses per year, throughout his career. Pat's average was north of 5 and Tara averaged more than 6.

 

[bballnut90]

OK, let's split the difference and say 30. I didn't check, but what was her average number of wins in her last 5 years of coaching? THAT would be the number I would use to project her number of potential wins going forward. Remember, I'm hypothesizing here, nothing more.

Considering Pat's record and the fact that Holly averaged 25 wins per season, 30-33 is much more realistic than 25.

Pat's last 5 years were:
2008: 36-2, Parker's Jr year title
2009: 22-11, her worst season of all time
2010: 32-3
2011: 34-3
2012: 27-9* (Holly took over most coaching duties this season as a segway to take over in 2013 so id consider this more of Holly's season even if it is technically Pat's).

An average of those 5 years and it is 30 wins. If you throw out the outlier seasons of 22 wins (worst season of all time), 27 wins (Holly coaching) and 36 wins (her 2nd highest of all time and largely a product of Candace Parker), the last 2 seasons were 32 and 34 wins, which gives an average of 33.


Every season from 1993-2007 she won at least 29 games, and averaged 31.8 wins over those 15 years while playing the strongest SOS year in year out. She was still recruiting very well too up to when the diagnosis was revealed.

I understand the sentiment from people who think that Pat winning another title was unlikely, but there's no logical reason to assume Pat's wins would drop to 25 per season if she maintained her health.

Had she won an average of 30 games a season from 2013-2020, Pat would have 1338 wins. Had she won 33 games per season, it'd be 1362.

Realistically Geno and Tara could coach another 5-10 years. Both are healthy and recruiting extremely well. That said, as we saw with Pat's health, anything can happen. No one expected Pat's coaching career would end 3 years after she cracked 1000 wins at 56 years old.

My guess is if both Geno and Tara stay healthy they'll end up in the high 1200s- low 1400s range which will likely never be broken in our lifetimes unless seasons are expanded to 45+ games. For someone to match or beat that number means a coach will need to average 30-35 wins for an almost 40 year coaching career.

 

[FanHam]

In my life I've watched John Wooden, Bobby Knight, Adolph Rupp, Mike Krzyzewski, Pat Summitt, John Thompson, Geno Auriemma, and a host of other "great" basketball coaches demonstrate their wares and make their mark.

No one compares to Geno (and Chris Dailey), in my mind.

Period. End of discussion.

I would put John Wooden in second place.

 

[Carnac]

Considering Pat's record and the fact that Holly averaged 25 wins per season, 30-33 is much more realistic than 25.

Pat's last 5 years were:
2008: 36-2, Parker's Jr year title
2009: 22-11, her worst season of all time
2010: 32-3
2011: 34-3
2012: 27-9* (Holly took over most coaching duties this season as a segway to take over in 2013 so id consider this more of Holly's season even if it is technically Pat's).

An average of those 5 years and it is 30 wins. If you throw out the outlier seasons of 22 wins (worst season of all time), 27 wins (Holly coaching) and 36 wins (her 2nd highest of all time and largely a product of Candace Parker), the last 2 seasons were 32 and 34 wins, which gives an average of 33.


Every season from 1993-2007 she won at least 29 games, and averaged 31.8 wins over those 15 years while playing the strongest SOS year in year out. She was still recruiting very well too up to when the diagnosis was revealed.

I understand the sentiment from people who think that Pat winning another title was unlikely, but there's no logical reason to assume Pat's wins would drop to 25 per season if she maintained her health.

Had she won an average of 30 games a season from 2013-2020, Pat would have 1338 wins. Had she won 33 games per season, it'd be 1362.

Realistically Geno and Tara could coach another 5-10 years. Both are healthy and recruiting extremely well. That said, as we saw with Pat's health, anything can happen. No one expected Pat's coaching career would end 3 years after she cracked 1000 wins at 56 years old.

My guess is if both Geno and Tara stay healthy they'll end up in the high 1200s- low 1400s range which will likely never be broken in our lifetimes unless seasons are expanded to 45+ games. For someone to match or beat that number means a coach will need to average 30-35 wins for an almost 40 year coaching career.

Thanks for the assist bballnut. ?

 

[DefenseBB]

Hypothesis.......IF Summit was still coaching today, and If she would have won an average of 30-35 games a year, she would have had some where in the neighborhood of 1365-1385 wins.

What will be the NEW final career win total record be will Geno and Tara retire? Neither are showing any signs of retiring in the near future. Pat's 1098 was a revered record that stoo

Will THAT new record be one that will never be broken? Depending how how long they both continue to coach, that number could be somewhere between 1275-1350 games....

I have always felt “hypotheses” like what you and @bballnut90 propose were flawed from the start as your supposition cannot account for evolution, increased competitiveness and of the unfortunate decline of health that did occur.
Pat averaged 30.8 wins her last 12 years (sorry BBall but if you want to cherrypick, let me expand your time horizon). Her offensive strategy was limited to say the least as the game evolved heavily in that offensive direction and is why offensive coaches like Muffet and Kim Mulkey thrived. Also, Tara embraced the 3 point game and shot that Pat struggled with. Add in the deeper talent being distributed among more teams and more money input into more programs and I am dubious how any “probable hypothesis” could be made.
What is known is how superior Geno’s winning percentage is to Pat’s in a higher competitive environment. Which is why I think Micki DeMoss’s comment was done as a comment by Pat as “tongue in cheek” not a serious one.
Pat was the trail blazer the drive this sport to the position it now stands, just like Washington was the standard bearer for all Presidents who followed. To that, huge Kudos to Pat Summit. Other than that though, I cannot subscribe to your supposition.

 

[UcMiami]

I think it will be very difficult for any coach to match Tara, Geno, or Pat in terms of D1 wins. Because the NCAA counts all coaching wins as part of a D1 coaches record it is possible that a very successful D2 or D3 coach who has a few years in D1 might. My reasoning ... in today's coaching environment (higher profile and much higher pay scale at the upper end of WCBB) the chance to start coaching a P5 team at age 22 is minimal. Pat was promoted from graduate assistant to HC at age 22. Tara became a HC at 25 in AIAW and 27 at Ohio State in 1980, Muffet started at Lehigh at 27 and at 32 at ND, and Geno started at 31 at Uconn. Barb Stevens started at 23 in D2 spent three years at D1 level and then returned to D2 - only 34 of her 1058 wins are D1 level. Current 'hot' coaches - Jeff started as HC at 36, Kim at 38, Rueck start at D3 at 27, Graves at 34 at St. Marys CA.

Kim at about 15 years and Wes Moore at about 12 years (30 win average) are the two most likely D1 coaches and would both be about 75 yrs old when they reach Pat's number. CViv will be that same age when/if she does the same. Mark Campbell (D2 Union (TN) only to date) is the fasted HC to 600 wins and I believe he is only in his mid forties - if he continues to win at his current rate he could easily surpass Pat by his early 60s.

Most HCs at D1 need some years as an assistant before they are hired. D2 and D3 are more likely to hire recent graduates, but it happens less frequently than when no one was paying any attention to WCBB coaching hires and they were paid subsistence wages.

 

[cbraarj]

What makes Geno and Pats records more special than the other coaches. They did it at one school!!!

 

[fomalhaut]

OK, let's split the difference and say 30. I didn't check, but what was her average number of wins in her last 5 years of coaching? THAT would be the number I would use to project her number of potential wins going forward. Remember, I'm hypothesizing here, nothing more.

30 is reasonable. Summitt only won 35 games in a season twice.

 

[Bayareahusky]

Pat was a transcendent force in WCBB... she brought in a new era in the game and deserves all accolades given her. Just as Geno did a few years after that..... the game moves on

 

[ucbart]

Considering Pat's record and the fact that Holly averaged 25 wins per season, 30-33 is much more realistic than 25.

Pat's last 5 years were:
2008: 36-2, Parker's Jr year title
2009: 22-11, her worst season of all time
2010: 32-3
2011: 34-3
2012: 27-9* (Holly took over most coaching duties this season as a segway to take over in 2013 so id consider this more of Holly's season even if it is technically Pat's).

An average of those 5 years and it is 30 wins. If you throw out the outlier seasons of 22 wins (worst season of all time), 27 wins (Holly coaching) and 36 wins (her 2nd highest of all time and largely a product of Candace Parker), the last 2 seasons were 32 and 34 wins, which gives an average of 33.


Every season from 1993-2007 she won at least 29 games, and averaged 31.8 wins over those 15 years while playing the strongest SOS year in year out. She was still recruiting very well too up to when the diagnosis was revealed.

I understand the sentiment from people who think that Pat winning another title was unlikely, but there's no logical reason to assume Pat's wins would drop to 25 per season if she maintained her health.

Had she won an average of 30 games a season from 2013-2020, Pat would have 1338 wins. Had she won 33 games per season, it'd be 1362.

Realistically Geno and Tara could coach another 5-10 years. Both are healthy and recruiting extremely well. That said, as we saw with Pat's health, anything can happen. No one expected Pat's coaching career would end 3 years after she cracked 1000 wins at 56 years old.

My guess is if both Geno and Tara stay healthy they'll end up in the high 1200s- low 1400s range which will likely never be broken in our lifetimes unless seasons are expanded to 45+ games. For someone to match or beat that number means a coach will need to average 30-35 wins for an almost 40 year coaching career.

What season do the Vol faithful think Pat started to look like she was showing symptoms. I remember having a conversation with a fellow women's basketball fan and saying to them, "Pat Summitt looks.......different on the sidelines now."

At the time, I thought it was just normal aging, but once her diagnosis was announced, all the thoughts in my head started to make more sense. It's still just so, so tragic what her last years were like. That disease, like ALS, is just a thief.

 

[donyell34]

In my life I've watched John Wooden, Bobby Knight, Adolph Rupp, Mike Krzyzewski, Pat Summitt, John Thompson, Geno Auriemma, and a host of other "great" basketball coaches demonstrate their wares and make their mark.

No one compares to Geno (and Chris Dailey), in my mind.

Period. End of discussion.

I would put John Wooden in

I think you missed are HOF coach Jim Calhoun.

 

[cbraarj]

Tara broke Pats record not Geno.