What Does NBC Have to lose?

[HartbeatHusky]

Somebody explain to me what exactly NBC would have to lose by putting a set of numbers on the table for a PAC 12 like deal next fall when the negotiations start and Syracuse and Pitt are still members saying that if they stay this is what the deal is? It would be in their long term interest to try as hard as they can to make it happen. I find it very hard to believe that Cuse and Pitt could not be convinced to stay for pretty much anything over $20 million a year or so. They could probably negotiate it higher if they wanted to play along but I think $20 M a year will be the starting point for a BE that is expanded from coast to coast and doesn't lose Cuse and Pitt.

I'd be in favor of kicking out WVU right after the deal got signed if this happened but if they are forced to stay until 2014 I'm sure they would be begging to stay as well if these types of numbers were being put out there. The 27 month clause is going to make all of this very interesting. The B12 would also be significantly weakened if WVU doesn't win their lawsuit so everything really depends on what happens from now until next fall with that pending litigation.

 

[geordi]

A lot of money!

 

[zls44]

NBC does not have the money, and they are not stupid.

 

[HartbeatHusky]

How is making an offer for an attractive property stupid? You guys really don't get it. NBC has everything to gain by trying to salvage the Big East. Even if Pitt and Cuse do leave the BE will get a deal for at least $10 M a year per football school. If they want to make sure UConn, Louisville, and Notre Dame stay put they have the resources to do it.

 

[Mr. Wonderful]

NBC will not overpay to reconstruct the old Big East. As long as Notre Dame remains attractive to advertisers, I can't see them caring.

 

[HartbeatHusky]

NBC will not overpay to reconstruct the old Big East. As long as Notre Dame remains attractive to advertisers, I can't see them caring.

Do you think the Pac 12 is worth the deal they have? I think a reconstructed BE is worth more so I don't see it as overpaying at all. Right now all indications are that the Big East will be a 13 member football and 19 member bball conference spread across the country for the 2013 season. It would still be the best basketball conference ever assembled by far, have the best markets, and be good at football if it held onto WVU and added Boise St.

And just so we're clear. You're saying it won't happen because NBC won't care enough to pay enough to make it happen. So if they did care enough to pony up I think it could clearly happen. Keep in mind that they also want to preserve ND's football independence for their own purposes.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Do you think the Pac 12 is worth the deal they have? I think a reconstructed BE is worth more so I don't see it as overpaying at all. Right now all indications are that the Big East will be a 13 member football and 19 member bball conference spread across the country for the 2013 season. It would still be the best basketball conference ever assembled by far, have the best markets, and be good at football if it held onto WVU and added Boise St.

And just so we're clear. You're saying it won't happen because NBC won't care enough to pay enough to make it happen. So if they did care enough to pony up I think it could clearly happen. Keep in mind that they also want to preserve ND's football independence for their own purposes.

If this was true, the offer would have been made some time ago. The reconstituted BE has few attractive programs, and it won't come close to the Pac10 contract, or even the ACC contract. These delusions of grandeur need to stop. This ship has already hit the iceberg. While we might patch the hull and survive for a little while, everyone on this boat would jump to another one that comes by. Cuse and Pitt are already sailing away on a nice new cruise ship.

 

[HartbeatHusky]

If this was true, the offer would have been made some time ago. The reconstituted BE has few attractive programs, and it won't come close to the Pac10 contract, or even the ACC contract. These delusions of grandeur need to stop. This ship has already hit the iceberg. While we might patch the hull and survive for a little while, everyone on this boat would jump to another one that comes by. Cuse and Pitt are already sailing away on a nice new cruise ship.

Where would this offer have come from? The Big East signed it's last contract under the gun during a much different time for the market and later was offered a decent but not great extension by ESPN. They have not been able to test the open market at all but that will change next fall. It's not a delusion. It's simple logic that NBC and probably Fox will tell them what it would be worth if Pitt, Cuse, and WVU were convinced to stay. ESPN will also make a bid. Nobody is leaving until the new deal is done and during the course of those negotiations everything could change. Anyone arguing otherwise really isn't thinking straight.

 

[businesslawyer]

What does NBC have to lose? You mean beyond money and market share?

What do NBC executives have to lose? You mean beyond their jobs and bonuses?


I have no prediction whatsoever on what the new contract will be worth (or even if the Big East will still exist when it's time to negotiate it). But the price will not be based on a network having nothing to lose.

 

[HartbeatHusky]

What does NBC have to lose? You mean beyond money and market share?

What do NBC executives have to lose? You mean beyond their jobs and bonuses?

I have no prediction whatsoever on what the new contract will be worth (or even if the Big East will still exist when it's time to negotiate it). But the price will not be based on a network having nothing to lose.

They have everything to gain. Period. It's that simple. Making an offer that would be predicated on keeping Cuse, Pitt, and/or WVU costs nothing.

 

[The Funster]

I don't see Cuse or Pitt ever reneging on their ACC commitment. And, if they don't the NBE will not be better than the ACC as a BB conference. I don't see UConn being a member of a top conference any time soon. However, I don't see being kept out of the loop either. At some point, UConn will find a safe landing spot. We just have to be patient.

 

[Jericho]

Do you think the Pac 12 is worth the deal they have? I think a reconstructed BE is worth more so I don't see it as overpaying at all. Right now all indications are that the Big East will be a 13 member football and 19 member bball conference spread across the country for the 2013 season. It would still be the best basketball conference ever assembled by far, have the best markets, and be good at football if it held onto WVU and added Boise St.

And just so we're clear. You're saying it won't happen because NBC won't care enough to pay enough to make it happen. So if they did care enough to pony up I think it could clearly happen. Keep in mind that they also want to preserve ND's football independence for their own purposes.

I think this post right here it the problem. You think the Big East should get a huge television contract. I don't know if anyone else anywhere shares that sentiment. And there's little reason to overpay for the rights. if anything, NBC may be able to underbid as I'm not sure they'll be a ton of competition for the broadcast rights. Your opinion of the Big East and everyone else's are so far apart, I'm not sure even discussing the issue will do much to change your mind.

As to Pitt and Syracuse, my first question is if they can even stay. If they've officially signed on to the ACC, they may have to pay their exit fee (much like TCU had to pay the Big East) at $20 million. And not sure how much they add to a proposed TV deal anyway. Is it worth it to try and keep them? Is it worth it for Pitt and Syracuse to leave the ACC?

Let's face facts. The old Big East did not garner big television deals. Conference USA did not. The new Big East is the old Big East minus some top team plus some Conference USA team. It's not that attractive of a property. It can do okay, but there's not an incentive to overpay.

 

[HartbeatHusky]

I think this post right here it the problem. You think the Big East should get a huge television contract. I don't know if anyone else anywhere shares that sentiment. And there's little reason to overpay for the rights. if anything, NBC may be able to underbid as I'm not sure they'll be a ton of competition for the broadcast rights. Your opinion of the Big East and everyone else's are so far apart, I'm not sure even discussing the issue will do much to change your mind.

As to Pitt and Syracuse, my first question is if they can even stay. If they've officially signed on to the ACC, they may have to pay their exit fee (much like TCU had to pay the Big East) at $20 million. And not sure how much they add to a proposed TV deal anyway. Is it worth it to try and keep them? Is it worth it for Pitt and Syracuse to leave the ACC?

Let's face facts. The old Big East did not garner big television deals. Conference USA did not. The new Big East is the old Big East minus some top team plus some Conference USA team. It's not that attractive of a property. It can do okay, but there's not an incentive to overpay.

Most of you guys are seriously undervaluing the Big East and selling it far too short. We had an offer to be equal to the ACC with only 8 football teams on the table without even negotiating on the open market. There is no way that even without expansion the current 8 members would not have been able to beat the ACC had they been able to negotiate on the open market. Keeping those 8 together plus the 5 new teams coming in would give us far and away a better deal than the ACC. Will it be enough? Who knows? But anyone who thinks that NBC will not try is truly delusional.

Also, should they decide to stay, the football schools would outnumber the basketball schools and voting power would be completely in favor of the football members alleviating a main sticking point.

 

[zls44]

One conference's basement football teams are Wake Forest and Duke.

Another's are SMU and UCF.

Do you really think the two are equal? You really think the Big East is worth anywhere near as much as the ACC, yet alone the Pac-12? Seriously?

You're living in a fantasy world. It isn't some sort of magical conspiracy, the Big East is just plain worse than the ACC and the Pac-12. Ratings prove it, history proves it, everything proves it.

You can't say nobody in Boston gives a crap about BC and then argue that anyone in Houston cares about UH, or anyone in Dallas cares about SMU. They're worse teams (usually, but not as much lately, thanks Gene!) who have barely been relevent since Reagan was president. Be consistent.

 

[zls44]

If anything, NBC may be able to underbid as I'm not sure they'll be a ton of competition for the broadcast rights.

See: NHL 2005.

Nobody in sports media allocates resources worse than NBC. It's not even close. They literally have no idea what they're doing.

 

[HartbeatHusky]

One conference's basement football teams are Wake Forest and Duke.

Another's are SMU and UCF.

Do you really think the two are equal? You really think the Big East is worth anywhere near as much as the ACC, yet alone the Pac-12? Seriously?

You're living in a fantasy world. It isn't some sort of magical conspiracy, the Big East is just plain worse than the ACC and the Pac-12. Ratings prove it, history proves it, everything proves it.

You can't say nobody in Boston gives a crap about BC and then argue that anyone in Houston cares about UH, or anyone in Dallas cares about SMU. They're worse teams (usually, but not as much lately, thanks Gene!) who have barely been relevent since Reagan was president. Be consistent.

Why did ESPN offer us a deal pretty much on par with the ACC if we are so much worse? You have to actively ignore that reality to make the case that you are making because ESPN already demonstrated that they would pay pretty much the same amount for both conferences and that was before we had Boise St. coming in and had a presence in Houston and Dallas. There is more potential in those markets for college sports than there is in Boston in my opinion and even if it's about equal both have more historic success and are currently better programs.

 

[Jimdish255]

One conference's basement football teams are Wake Forest and Duke.

Another's are SMU and UCF.

Do you really think the two are equal? You really think the Big East is worth anywhere near as much as the ACC, yet alone the Pac-12? Seriously?

You're living in a fantasy world. It isn't some sort of magical conspiracy, the Big East is just plain worse than the ACC and the Pac-12. Ratings prove it, history proves it, everything proves it.

You can't say nobody in Boston gives a crap about BC and then argue that anyone in Houston cares about UH, or anyone in Dallas cares about SMU. They're worse teams (usually, but not as much lately, thanks Gene!) who have barely been relevent since Reagan was president. Be consistent.

You conveniently left out the fact that UCF crushed BC 30-3 this year. And they're not even a "basement team". Just sayin tha the BE sucked so much the ACC had to raid them not once but twice. I'm not so sure the new additions will work miracles for FB mediocrity but they do elevate hoops quite a bit and that hurts the BE.

 

[metsfan2323]

One conference's basement football teams are Wake Forest and Duke.

Another's are SMU and UCF.

Do you really think the two are equal?

If we are just talking football I will take UCF and SMU over Wake and Duke.

 

[Chin Diesel]

If we are just talking football I will take UCF and SMU over Wake and Duke.

+1

Lots of arguments to made on either side here, but suggesting it's better to have garbage teams in Durham and Winston Salem as compared to Orlando and Dallas isn't one of them.

 

[HartbeatHusky]

+1

Lots of arguments to made on either side here, but suggesting it's better to have garbage teams in Durham and Winston Salem as compared to Orlando and Dallas isn't one of them.

And UCF and SMU both have a better chance at being decent than Duke ever will.

I just find it odd that the current Big East was offered a deal in the same range as the ACC's before expansion and people really think that for whatever reason that same Big East plus Boise St. and the other 4 additions would not be worth even more.

 

[Chin Diesel]

And UCF and SMU both have a better chance at being decent than Duke ever will.

I just find it odd that the current Big East was offered a deal in the same range as the ACC's before expansion and people really think that for whatever reason that same Big East plus Boise St. and the other 4 additions would not be worth even more.

To be fair, the offer was with WVU, SU and Pitt still in the BE.

The conversation on rights needs to center around this.

Was the eight team conference including Pitt, WVU and SU worth more than the ten team conference with Boise, SDSU, SMU, UH and UCF and Navy a year later.?

 

[HartbeatHusky]

To be fair, the offer was with WVU, SU and Pitt still in the BE.

The conversation on rights needs to center around this.

Was the eight team conference including Pitt, WVU and SU worth more than the ten team conference with Boise, SDSU, SMU, UH and UCF and Navy a year later.?

My point is that those schools will at least have the opportunity to reevaluate leaving as long as the 27 month clause holds up. Numbers will be presented including them and they can decide if it's enough to make them reconsider leaving. We know the starting point was pretty equal to the ACC and that wasn't on the open market.

The market will ultimately decide what happens but everyone has a price in this. If NBC/Fox make an offer closer to PAC 12 numbers than ACC numbers they'll have to think long and hard about staying.

 

[Fishy]

What color are the unicorns in your world?

 

[HartbeatHusky]

What color are the unicorns in your world?

They are green bitch.

 

[zls44]

To be fair, the offer was with WVU, SU and Pitt still in the BE.

The conversation on rights needs to center around this.

Was the eight team conference including Pitt, WVU and SU worth more than the ten team conference with Boise, SDSU, SMU, UH and UCF and Navy a year later.?

Exactly. The previous BE/ACC offers are red herrings.

Also, the truth is, as as they are at FB, Wake and even Duke are bigger names/ratings draws nationally than UCF and SMU. Maybe Duke is better than SMU, but it's close.

SMU is irrelevant. Houston is irrelevant after this year. UCF is irrelevant and is about to get whacked by the NCAA. SDSU is irrelevant and in SAN DIEGO, CALIFORNIA.

Wake and Duke might suck, but you know what? They're Duke and Wake Forest. Real schools with real fanbases and established cred (Duke BB). The rest are nothing, just nothing, warm bodies with nothing to them.

This stuff doesn't fall from the sky. It's based on facts. UCF can pass by a lot of schools if you give them 50 years. You want UConn sticking around with these teams for 50 years? Or do you want them in a real league?