OT: Water Heater… Tank or Tankless?

[DaddyChoc]

I’m looking into buying a new one and I’m hearing a lot about “tankless”. Do you have any experience with buying/installing a new one. Cost, transition, install, efficiency, effectiveness, sellers, etc. Seems that tankless will save me some space as well. Help…

 

[CL82]

Thread 'Tankless Water Heaters - Anyone have one of these?'

That thread will help get you started. I went through the same thought process and in the end I decided that the extra cost for re-plumbing and running electricity for the tankless heater could be justified by the savings of the system. Other drawbacks are that, unless you get a circulating pump, you have to wait for a while until the hot water comes. Once it does, though, it’s essentially unlimited. it was a minimal cost to install another hot water tank that would fit my existing plumbing. That was the way I went.

 

[CL82]

Thread 'Tankless Water Heaters - Anyone have one of these?'

That thread will help get you started. I went through the same thought process and in the end I decided that the extra cost for re-plumbing and running electricity for the tankless heater could be justified by the savings of the system. Other drawbacks are that, unless you get a circulating pump, you have to wait for a while until the hot water comes. Once it does, though, it’s essentially unlimited. it was a minimal cost to install another hot water tank that would fit my existing plumbing. That was the way I went.

Oops that should be “in the end I decided that the extra cost for re-plumbing and running electricity for the tankless heater could not be justified by the savings of the system.”

 

[mbr33ct]

I just went through this process, currently have gas hot water tank. Decided to get two quotes, one to replace existing tank with another and one for a tankless uni.

The problem I have, I live in a 2nd floor condo, my mechanical "room" (more like a closet) is so tight reason wanting to switch to a tankless unit was to free up some space in this "closet". Dealing with condo association in itself is another matter to get approval due to the wall penetration for exhaust vent.

I went through a plumbing and heating contractor for quotes because I also wanted to update main water shut-off valve and washer connections to 1/4 turn shut-off valves as well.

Talking to plumber he mentioned in CT currently there are no rebates for the tankless unit, also required an electrician and a permit for this work as @CL82 already stated above. The quotes ended up $2,000.00 to $4,500.00 ( without electrician and permit cost). In the end also concluded to just swap out old hot tank with new one and call it a day without dealing with the condo association, additional electrical work and permit that would have been required.

Note: above quotes only for the tank or tankless, no valves upgrading in the two quotes.

...but probably the biggest difference maker for me was in the event of power failures (and we have had in this area) you would not have any hot water...unlike with tank at least there is residual hot water in tank to take showers until power comes back on.

 

[EdSaid]

I’m looking into buying a new one and I’m hearing a lot about “tankless”. Do you have any experience with buying/installing a new one. Cost, transition, install, efficiency, effectiveness, sellers, etc. Seems that tankless will save me some space as well. Help…

I have natural gas and I replaced both my hot water and my boiler for forced hot water heat with a Navian tankless about 1 1/2 years ago. My brother is a plumber and he swears by them. He told me in the future it would be inexpensive and easy to replace the heating unit (if and when it goes bad) once everything else is installed around it. The Navian unit is under $3,000, but there is a lot do it. The whole thing cost around 12. I think they key to saving money is using the programmable thermostats. I have five zones and they are tricky to program. I head south for the winter so I can't tell you how much it saves on heat, but I know it saves on hot water in the warmer months.

I'm in Massachusetts and the state runs a program (with extra benefits for seniors). I got 7 years 0% financing and attic insulation for 80% off. I'm very handy, and the thing really looks complicated. It takes up a good amount of wall space, but it frees up a lot of floor space.

It does make some weird noises, so keep it away from bedrooms if possible. I got a quote from a plumber and it was 14, so I think I got a good deal. With the old school hot water tank you have hot water during a power outage, with the tankless you do not. I put in a whole house generator a few years early.

 

[CL82]

I just went through this process, currently have gas hot water tank. Decided to get two quotes, one to replace existing tank with another and one for a tankless uni.

The problem I have, I live in a 2nd floor condo, my mechanical "room" (more like a closet) is so tight reason wanting to switch to a tankless unit was to free up some space in this "closet". Dealing with condo association in itself is another matter to get approval due to the wall penetration for exhaust vent.

I went through a plumbing and heating contractor for quotes because I also wanted to update main water shut-off valve and washer connections to 1/4 turn shut-off valves as well.

Talking to plumber he mentioned in CT currently there are no rebates for the tankless unit, also required an electrician and a permit for this work as @CL82 already stated above. The quotes ended up $2,000.00 to $4,500.00 ( without electrician and permit cost). In the end also concluded to just swap out old hot tank with new one and call it a day without dealing with the condo association, additional electrical work and permit that would have been required.

Note: above quotes only for the tank or tankless, no valves upgrading in the two quotes.

...but probably the biggest difference maker for me was in the event of power failures (and we have had in this area) you would not have any hot water...unlike with tank at least there is residual hot water in tank to take showers until power comes back on.

I have natural gas and my prior ancient unit had a pilot light so I didn’t even need electricity at all to have hot water. I haven’t had a electricity failure with the new unit, but I suspect that I’d have to connect it to a portable generator to have it fire up the water.

My next major purchase will probably be a generator. Since we have natural gas it’s pretty easy and straightforward. As my neighbor is fond of saying, “did we have a power outage, I really didn’t notice.”

 

[SVCBeercats]

I’m looking into buying a new one and I’m hearing a lot about “tankless”. Do you have any experience with buying/installing a new one. Cost, transition, install, efficiency, effectiveness, sellers, etc. Seems that tankless will save me some space as well. Help…

When we bought our house and decided to finish the basement, However the water heater's gas exhaust ran through where we intended to put our kitchenette. So we got a well insulated electric water heater. Additionally, we wrapped insulation on the outside. We added a timer to shut off the water heater a 9 PM and turn it back on a 9 AM. At 7 AM the water is still hot enough for our morning ablutions.

 

[uconnfan68]

Our house came tankless, and I would never go back to having to clean up the flooding of failed hot water tanks.

 

[Stinger92860]

Tankless

 

[DaddyChoc]

Oops that should be “in the end I decided that the extra cost for re-plumbing and running electricity for the tankless heater could not be justified by the savings of the system.”

Extra plumbing goes into going tankless

 

[DaddyChoc]

I just went through this process, currently have gas hot water tank. Decided to get two quotes, one to replace existing tank with another and one for a tankless uni.

The problem I have, I live in a 2nd floor condo, my mechanical "room" (more like a closet) is so tight reason wanting to switch to a tankless unit was to free up some space in this "closet". Dealing with condo association in itself is another matter to get approval due to the wall penetration for exhaust vent.

I went through a plumbing and heating contractor for quotes because I also wanted to update main water shut-off valve and washer connections to 1/4 turn shut-off valves as well.

Talking to plumber he mentioned in CT currently there are no rebates for the tankless unit, also required an electrician and a permit for this work as @CL82 already stated above. The quotes ended up $2,000.00 to $4,500.00 ( without electrician and permit cost). In the end also concluded to just swap out old hot tank with new one and call it a day without dealing with the condo association, additional electrical work and permit that would have been required.

Note: above quotes only for the tank or tankless, no valves upgrading in the two quotes.

...but probably the biggest difference maker for me was in the event of power failures (and we have had in this area) you would not have any hot water...unlike with tank at least there is residual hot water in tank to take showers until power comes back on.

Wow, interesting about the permit. I’m with an association as well but only side by side with current tank in my own space

 

[DaddyChoc]

I have natural gas and I replaced both my hot water and my boiler for forced hot water heat with a Navian tankless about 1 1/2 years ago. My brother is a plumber and he swears by them. He told me in the future it would be inexpensive and easy to replace the heating unit (if and when it goes bad) once everything else is installed around it. The Navian unit is under $3,000, but there is a lot do it. The whole thing cost around 12. I think they key to saving money is using the programmable thermostats. I have five zones and they are tricky to program. I head south for the winter so I can't tell you how much it saves on heat, but I know it saves on hot water in the warmer months.

I'm in Massachusetts and the state runs a program (with extra benefits for seniors). I got 7 years 0% financing and attic insulation for 80% off. I'm very handy, and the thing really looks complicated. It takes up a good amount of wall space, but it frees up a lot of floor space.

It does make some weird noises, so keep it away from bedrooms if possible. I got a quote from a plumber and it was 14, so I think I got a good deal. With the old school hot water tank you have hot water during a power outage, with the tankless you do not. I put in a whole house generator a few years early.

Does sq ft of the home matter?

 

[DaddyChoc]

Thread 'Tankless Water Heaters - Anyone have one of these?'

That thread will help get you started. I went through the same thought process and in the end I decided that the extra cost for re-plumbing and running electricity for the tankless heater could be justified by the savings of the system. Other drawbacks are that, unless you get a circulating pump, you have to wait for a while until the hot water comes. Once it does, though, it’s essentially unlimited. it was a minimal cost to install another hot water tank that would fit my existing plumbing. That was the way I went.

dang it, I forgot to use the search feature… besides, I wanted you guys to know I’m still lurking around

 

[mbr33ct]

Wow, interesting about the permit. I’m with an association as well but only side by side with current tank in my own space

I'm wondering if I get additional companies to quote whether they would also say a permit is required. Here's another factor swapping out tank with another tank is the less hassle free for me living in condo. Currently my tank was installed in late 2011 and has a 6 year warranty. As a rule of thumb (so says this plumber) one can expect 12 years of service (A.O.Smith) with tank...by the way, tank is fine now no issues, I just feel it's about due. Tankless units I believe can have 20+ years service/warranties. If I go solely on quote prices I can replace another tank in another 12 years and still be under the quote for the tankless install.

I will say though, If I had a house and not condo, I would switch to tankless.

 

[Bald Husky]

Replaced my boiler and water heater last February. I went with another water heater, as the extra expense of additional plumbing, and the thought of my wife complaining about lack of hot water made my decision easy.
Also, I have oil heat, and received my first delivery of the season last week (5 months from last delivery). With the new boiler, my delivery was exactly one half of what I received last year at this time. With the cost of oil these days, I hit a home run with the new boiler.

 

[Stymie]

Tankless preferred to me.
Does require a bit of maintenance.
Interior coil ( water travels through it to become hot) needs to be cleaned on occasion since there is often mineral build up from the water.
Simple acid dip to dissolve

 

[Beemer]

Replaced my boiler and water heater last February. I went with another water heater, as the extra expense of additional plumbing, and the thought of my wife complaining about lack of hot water made my decision easy.
Also, I have oil heat, and received my first delivery of the season last week (5 months from last delivery). With the new boiler, my delivery was exactly one half of what I received last year at this time. With the cost of oil these days, I hit a home run with the new boiler.

That's what I did about 10 years ago. Going tankless would have been a major project ( I own & live in a multi-use building). Replacing the furnace & hot water tank was expensive enough thank you very much but it paid for itself in very short order, cut my oil bill nearly in half. I shudder to think what I'd be paying now if I hadn't done it.

 

[jimazee]

Been happy with various tanks of all types. We now have a sidecar (or whatever they call the pipe-attached tank, heated as a zone on the (propane) boiler), a few water tanks self-heated (oil, gas, electric...not my fav)....and even a coil or two in the boiler (simple but erratic?)..

We once installed tankless in an under-construction commercial-type building about 15 years ago...because we had low volume/usage, so we thought tankless was a good fit. I think it proved to be so from a fuel consumption perspective....but more complexity/cost in installation (as I recall ). Over time seems to have held up with some minor issues. but I'm no longer there). Probably a good fit here.

I like our current (house) system: a propane boiler with a sidecar water tank and a backup generator on the same fuel tank. This is combined with a propane-fueled fireplace (handy when the boiler is out...but no hot water ;-) ). It's a nice setup. We've had some boiler problems but all else works great. This was all installed during construction, about 13 years ago. This is my fav...

We've never had a badly leaking water tank...probably lucky.

In most refit cases, we would refit with good system parts as built...I think.

 

[EdSaid]

Does sq ft of the home matter

Yes it does. Tankless heaters come in many different sizes. You need to have someone size up your house. I believe my navian is 200,000 BTU's

 

[DaddyChoc]

Replaced my boiler and water heater last February. I went with another water heater, as the extra expense of additional plumbing, and the thought of my wife complaining about lack of hot water made my decision easy.
Also, I have oil heat, and received my first delivery of the season last week (5 months from last delivery). With the new boiler, my delivery was exactly one half of what I received last year at this time. With the cost of oil these days, I hit a home run with the new boiler.

That’s what I’m worried about, additional plumbing

 

[CL82]

That’s what I’m worried about, additional plumbing

What’s the size of your existing water heater tank? Is it a 40 gallon? Have you ever run out of hot water? If not, than what’s the justification for the added cost of making the switch to tankless? That was my thought process.