Was Walz's game plan Legit?

[JimGunther]

Pershaps it was covered in the game thread but, was the coverage of BG legal?

Obviously, the Cards were willing to sacrifice A LOT of fouls but, was the strategy "You can't call 'em all?

PS: I have no knowledge of the finer point but, appeared to me that LOU was fouling BG fon about every play, no?

PPS: I wouldn't want to see the same treatment on Stefanie Dolson 0 Though I KNOW she gets banged around every game.

PPPS: I was happy to see Baylor eliminated.

 

[Icebear]

It was legit a long as the refs didn't stop it. It was Gulliver and the Lilliputians.

 

[pap49cba]

This is precisely how an inferior team can beat a vastly superior team. As long as the refs continue to allow it, games will be semi-controlled muggings.

 

[FDNY99]

My take on it...he gambled BIG time that Baylor guards wouldn't knock down shots from the outside...and he won his bet! I was also pretty amazed that such a poor level of officiating even made it into a tournament game..never mind a sweet sixteen game!

 

[CCinCT]

This is precisely how an inferior team can beat a vastly superior team. As long as the refs continue to allow it, games will be semi-controlled muggings.

Was it last year or the year before that Walz used the same tactics on UCONN ???

Looked like UCONN was playing Rutgers or Syracuse.

 

[CCinCT]

My take on it...he gambled BIG time that Baylor guards wouldn't knock down shots from the outside...and he won his bet! I was also pretty amazed that such a poor level of officiating even made it into a tournament game..never mind a sweet sixteen game!

Why the surprise ? It happens every year.

 

[ScarlettB]

It is a strategy Walz frequently employs. IMO, it was unfortunate that it worked this time (not that I was rooting for Baylor) because it will just encourage him to continue down that path. He hasn't gotten to the John Chaney level yet and hopefully never will, but it encourages poor sportsmanship. He was able to neutralize BG, but his players seemed to be trying to provoke her into doing something stupid. Even the double technical on Shoni and Odyssey was caused by Shoni shoving her aside as she went to take the ball out of bounds. I'm all for tough D, but he takes it too far. He stated in his courtside interview after the game that he wanted to play street ball and they did. It wouldn't even have worked if L'Ville wasn't shooting 3's at a nearly impossible percentage.

 

[ScarlettB]

Was it last year or the year before that Walz used the same tactics on UCONN ???

Looked like UCONN was playing Rutgers or Syracuse.

Rutgers does not play D with the intent of fouling every time down the court or with the intent to injure other players. Many of the Big East teams play tough, swarming D (RU, St John's, Georgetown, Syracuse, ND - and UConn), but not like what Walz consistently has his team doing whenever they face a tough opponent. Occasionally a player on the other teams I mentioned gets chippy, but I don't see that style of play used as their entire defensive game plan.

 

[rocky rococo]

This is precisely how an inferior team can beat a vastly superior team. As long as the refs continue to allow it, games will be semi-controlled muggings.

And it can be empirically demonstrated at every level of ball that the refs will allow it to continue. Generally speaking, the team on the receiving end of the mugging will get called for more fouls. It may be "legit" in the sense that it's the legal structure of the game that is getting played, but one thing it isn't is basketball. By allowing the Pistons of the late 80s to not only get away with it constantly, but to actually win championships because the refs were too intimidated themselves to reel that behavior in and enforce the rule book, the NBA lost me as a fan. As the lesson was quickly picked up and learned by mcbb, there likewise. I'm a fan of wbb more as a refuge from just that pathology than for any other reason. Wbb isn't/hasn't been "pure" in any sense, but even the teams coached by none other than Bill Laimbeer himself have played more basketball than they've "played the refs". However, the general trend is unmistakable, that once again we see the body of officialdom refuse to enforce their own rulebook when certain teams/coaches adopt the strategy of "foul 'em on every play and make the refs call them because they won't". I don't know what I'll do once the Pistonization of wbb is allowed to become endemic.

 

[pksundevil]

It is a strategy Walz frequently employs. IMO, it was unfortunate that it worked this time (not that I was rooting for Baylor) because it will just encourage him to continue down that path. He hasn't gotten to the John Chaney level yet and hopefully never will, but it encourages poor sportsmanship. He was able to neutralize BG, but his players seemed to be trying to provoke her into doing something stupid. Even the double technical on Shoni and Odyssey was caused by Shoni shoving her aside as she went to take the ball out of bounds. I'm all for tough D, but he takes it too far. He stated in his courtside interview after the game that he wanted to play street ball and they did. It wouldn't even have worked if L'Ville wasn't shooting 3's at a nearly impossible percentage.

That's not what I saw on the replay of the double technical. Looking at the replay, it looked like Sims did far more jawing, but I agreed with the announcers that the double T was probably a decent call in order to keep the game from getting even chippier.

Louisville won because they shot 70% from 3-point land. That's the key point you make. Hard for any team to win when your opponent is on fire like that.

 

[JellyBean]

It was legit, sadly. But the physical nature and the taunting takes the "respect" factor out of the game. As a coach, I was always told and taught to respect the game, and the other team, and not trash it. I am just happy that our Lady Huskies and coaching staff don't cheapen the game by disrespecting the game.

 

[ScarlettB]

That's not what I saw on the replay of the double technical. Looking at the replay, it looked like Sims did far more jawing, but I agreed with the announcers that the double T was probably a decent call in order to keep the game from getting even chippier.

Louisville won because they shot 70% from 3-point land. That's the key point you make. Hard for any team to win when your opponent is on fire like that.

I'm not sure what was said, but watch the players bodies on the double T. Shoni uses her arm to push Sims aside and bumps her on the way out of bounds. Sims then proceeds to get right up in her face, as close as possible while still staying on the court. I have no problem with calling T's on both players, but IMO it looked like SS started it and OS retaliated.

 

[Samanthabrown3]

He stated in his courtside interview after the game that he wanted to play street ball and they did. It wouldn't even have worked if L'Ville wasn't shooting 3's at a nearly impossible percentage.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[pap49cba]

Will we see the same tactic employed tonight?

 

[JSB60]

I thought Walz was legit. I didn't think any of the plays on BG were dangerous, and if he had employed a more conventional gameplan, they'd have lost by 20. The refs were pretty bad but they missed calls both ways, including a ridiculous double standard on the T called on Walz and not on Mulkey.

 

[msf22b]

I thought Shoni's jawing at BG after her circus shot was hilarious, Tech foul or not

The ref's could have gotten control of the mugging of BG after 5 minutes but chose not to...too bad. Might not have made a difference, Baylor mugged the Card's plenty in return.

The 3-point shooting by the Card's was absolutely amazing, one of the great displays (under pressure) in the history of woman's BB. They just had to win after such a brilliant performance.

Being an optimist, I don't believe that dirty play will become the norm in woman's BB, saner heads will prevail and gain control. But for the rest of this Tourny...watch out, starting tonight.

 

[psconn]

HUSKIES darn it!!!! There is no "Lady" in the team name...

It was legit, sadly. But the physical nature and the taunting takes the "respect" factor out of the game. As a coach, I was always told and taught to respect the game, and the other team, and not trash it. I am just happy that our Lady Huskies and coaching staff don't cheapen the game by disrespecting the game.

 

[Bestiarius]

Yes, there was a lot of uncalled fouling on both sides. But the flagrant abuse heaped on Griner was over the top. Having 3 players pummeling her constantly, with the beating administered as the end goal, was unconscionable. It appeared to be an attempt to get Griner to retaliate. To her credit, she handled it admirably. Unfortunately, the officials didn't.

 

[Teacherdeb]

What the heck was the rest of Baylor doing while 3 to 5 Louisville players swarmed BG?

 

[Waquoit]

What the heck was the rest of Baylor doing while 3 to 5 Louisville players swarmed BG?

That's the key. Triple-teaming isn't mugging. That's how UConn beat Duke in 1999. The ganged up on Elton Brand and he was just as clueless as Griner.

 

[Shenandoah]

I'm not sure what was said, but watch the players bodies on the double T. Shoni uses her arm to push Sims aside and bumps her on the way out of bounds. Sims then proceeds to get right up in her face, as close as possible while still staying on the court. I have no problem with calling T's on both players, but IMO it looked like SS started it and OS retaliated.

I agree that something had to be done, but I didn't realize that a player technical foul counts as a personal foul. Players need to be cognizant of that. Shoni fouling out (on a stupid foul) later, on what would have been her fourth foul, nearly cost L'ville the game

 

[Husky68]

Not what I saw. Griner (like Stewart) is skinny and need space to take a step to jump. LV players were taking away her space to place her feet and take steps. Griner kept throwing her arms out to make space, Griner had no more rights to the air space around her than the LV girls with their arms up and feet place between Griners. How does the strategy work if Griner moves to the foul line, other players set picks so she can move from deep to foul line.
Baylor scored 81 points, not like the defense kept Baylor from scoring.
Sulkey Mulkey thinks Griner was handled to physically but has no problems with how Sims hip slams dribblers, guess being at the receiving end of "physical" is not as much fun. Doesn't Tara alway remark about how "physical" Uconn is when we play them?

 

[RoyDodger]

It was legit a long as the refs didn't stop it. It was Gulliver and the Lilliputians.

Some of the commentators on ESPN (Not sure which ones--Doris Burke? Rebecca?) repeatedly state that the quality of the officiating in women's college basketball must improve. This sounds like something we've been hearing for a long time. If there is to be an "improvement" who is to instigate it and what would be the standard? Doesn't appear that the NCAA cares that much. I'm no expert on officiating but I've seen my share of games where almost nothing happens and it's called a foul and then there's the one like the play against Kelly Faris the other day. So obvious, and yet no call.

 

[Samanthabrown3]

Some of the commentators on ESPN (Not sure which ones--Doris Burke? Rebecca?) repeatedly state that the quality of the officiating in women's college basketball must improve.

Kara, although maybe the other two, too.

But remember how bad we thought NFL officiating was until the replacement refs came in. Then we welcomed the returning refs with open arms.

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

It appears that the rule for this tournament is to "let them play the game". They have take that approach in the past. But not always.

Many years ago, RU was playing Tenn in the NCAA and had 10 fouls before Tenn had one. Were they fouls? Yes. Had they been called all year? Not so much. Privately heard that the NCAA mumbled an apology for having the "wrong crew" assigned to the game. Not admitting an error with the officiating, just that the schedule was messed up and a crew that was totally unfamiliar with RU's style got to call the game.

So I think pre-game guidance has a big affect.