Van Pelt Rant RE: Maryland Student Section

[whaler11]

They are INSIDE the athletic fund. Look at the athletic budget. Donations are INSIDE. They don't go to the academic side. Even at Texas you have 45% of respondents unaware what they are contributing to. Donations are listed as AD revenue.

I know that some donations go directly to athletic funds. I also know that some that end up at the school as non-athletic donations wouldn't exist if not for sports.

 

[Carl Spackler]

YOu know, I like to talk a lot smack. Not afraid to admit it. I try to be able to back it up, when I can.

One thing I can not do, is try to make some kind of numbers argument like gets thrown around here, without references. Unless somebody around here has actually access to the books at UCONN, these numbers are meaningless without some kind of reference.

With regard to the issue of stipends, it's pretty clear, that issuing stipends, in whatever form - will involve another line item on the "expense" side of a budget. Adding such an expense, by necessity, requires finding a source on the other side called "income".

The bottom line, is that the university has every outward appearance of growth, there is a dangerous kind of bubble, because tuition for students has skyrocketed, and that's an issue that has incredibly significant both short term and long term affects, but that's a different story - we're talking about adding a line item to the athletic deaprtemnt budget.

All this talk about where money comes from, on the "income" side, and where it si going on the "expense" side? It's really meaningless unless you can reference it.

I don't need to reference the following though, because it is common knowledge fact - the only thing missing that I'll write is the actually numbers because I don't feel like researching the existing BIg East contract and the terms of the new AAC contract. SUffice to say, that it is significantly less we'll be getting in television revenue by more than a million, and less than 10 million on the "income" side of the budget, and we have money coming in from "exit fees" for a number of years.

The athletic department, has taken a significant hit in television broadcasting revenue for sports, with the new contract. Now - the story is that the money incoming from conference exit fees will balance that out for the duration of the next contract - which means that if we aren't being completely snowed by the information out there, the university of Connecticut athletic department, if so desired, will be able to continue to operate for the immediate future with essentially the same income/expense budget that they've had for the recent past without a hiccup. That's what the story is. Now - if you add stipends? you need to find an additional source of income, from somewhere.

The university athletic department budget will change in the future, of course, when the exit fee money stream dries up. There needs to be a plan in place for that, when it happens, because it's not an IF - it's a when. You'd hope that such things have been long discussed already, and strategies are in place, working with the assumption that if we're going to be in this athletic conference, our next televsision revenue contract in several years will not be much different than we have now, so either things will need to be cut, or additional revenue sources need to be found to offset the loss.

IF for whatever reason we hit the jackpot that Rutgers and Maryland got, things would be great, and stipends wouldn't be an issue at all, because we are no where near as in dire straits financially that both Maryland and Rutgers were, and there is no reason to think that we will ever get there - unless management is a complete clusterduck and sends our athletic budgets and by extension the overall university budget into budget hell.

The key factor in it all - is the tuition and fees though for all students. It's a risky thing that has been done for the future, by jacking up tuition and fees as much as it has been recently. If the student body numbers and quality of student starts going in the wrong directions, that is a problem that will affect everything.

The real difference moving forward, is the change in the television contract revenue for the athletic department.

 

[J187Money]

By the way, what prevents these kids from taking a summer job like the vast majority of other students? 30 hours a week over 4 months = a clear $4k.

Technically, nothing. But most of them are in Storrs over the summer, where nobody is, and where there are no jobs other than for year-rounders. They also can't go home and get jobs, because they aren't home enough. Also - those types of jobs are hard to find because of general economic conditions - they are held by adults that typically wouldn't take those jobs. AND, they are encouraged to take less classes during the season and take more over the summer to keep them academically eligible. Lots of things that are the reality of your college athlete (especially fb/bb) get in the way.

 

[upstater]

All this talk about where money comes from, on the "income" side, and where it si going on the "expense" side? It's really meaningless unless you can reference it.

We constantly reference it. The basics can be found at the following sources:

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/spor...ollege-athletics-finances-database/54955804/1
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/schools/finances/
http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/GetOneInstitutionData.aspx

Beyond those 3 sources, you can look through the school's budget available online. I've never looked at UConn's. I just looked through several of the AAU school budgets recently for a report I made. I focused on Michigan in particular because they are a big revenue generator. If you dig into the budgets in particular, you'll see how money gets allocated.

The big thing for me is that all these people calling for market forces to be respected seem to glibly ignore the bottom line (profitability), the value of sports (intrinsically tied to the schools as institutions, otherwise the value is limited as minor league sports), the space of these programs within institutions with a basic mission other than sports (so people like Hruby ignore Title IX, and DOE regulations which require a total cost breakdown above and beyond tuition for ALL students, as well as formal and informal labor practices within universities in which student and apprenticeship labor is always discounted), and most of all, the training these athletes receive that would not otherwise be available (ignoring of course, the value of a free education, which has increasingly become a farce).

I would call for several reforms:

1. Institute stricter eligibility requirements for incoming students (which allows you to completely eliminate the APR and GSR farce).
2. Shorten the seasons and amount of games so that athletes can actually receive an education
3. Do not require athletes to take a full load of courses in season.
4. Allow athletes to take money from agents and boosters and the like, sources external to the [unprofitable] athletic programs.

 

[ZooCougar]

Holy crap. If our best players lost a step over the summer because they were waiting tables at Crapplebees then people here would have an aneuryism.

When I was in college I had a variety of work study jobs that paid very little but was enough to help make ends meet and have a little left over. I was basically performing a service for the school in the mailroom, or working in a a academic dept filing stuff.

Why don't they pay players the same way? It seems totally reasonable to me.

 

[upstater]

Technically, nothing. But most of them are in Storrs over the summer, where nobody is, and where there are no jobs other than for year-rounders. They also can't go home and get jobs, because they aren't home enough. Also - those types of jobs are hard to find because of general economic conditions - they are held by adults that typically wouldn't take those jobs. AND, they are encouraged to take less classes during the season and take more over the summer to keep them academically eligible. Lots of things that are the reality of your college athlete (especially fb/bb) get in the way.

I really don't buy this given the amounts of students who are working half-time to full-time. At my AAU school, it's over 60%. Retail $8 an hour summer jobs are available.

Excellent point about summer sessions however. And yet, students take those as well. Work and summer class (which run 3-4 hours a day).

 

[upstater]

Holy crap. If our best players lost a step over the summer because they were waiting tables at Crapplebees then people here would have an aneuryism.

When I was in college I had a variety of work study jobs that paid very little but was enough to help make ends meet and have a little left over. I was basically performing a service for the school in the mailroom, or working in a a academic dept filing stuff.

Why don't they pay players the same way? It seems totally reasonable to me.

There is nothing against that. But that's federal work-study. You have to file for financial aid. And, once you file for financial aid, you're automatically eligible for a $5k+ Pell grant, which means you probably won't work because you're getting the money for free.

For most students, a Pell Grant offsets scholarship money (i.e. the school reduces your scholarship a like amount) but there is nothing that forces a school to do this. A school could simply give a student a full tuition and room & board break, and then give them the Pell Grant in cash (and yes, students do crazy things with that money).

 

[ZooCougar]

There is nothing against that. But that's federal work-study. You have to file for financial aid. And, once you file for financial aid, you're automatically eligible for a $5k+ Pell grant, which means you probably won't work because you're getting the money for free.

For most students, a Pell Grant offsets scholarship money (i.e. the school reduces your scholarship a like amount) but there is nothing that forces a school to do this. A school could simply give a student a full tuition and room & board break, and then give them the Pell Grant in cash (and yes, students do crazy things with that money).

I think student athletes that are on scholarship should be compensated the same way any other student would be that performs a service for the school.

Between classes, travel, practice, off season conditioning etc. they simply don't have the time to work in between classes like other students do.

This is all prefectly reasonable.

Giving a 250lb kid 15 bucks after a game to go buy food is a joke.

 

[Carl Spackler]

We constantly reference it. The basics can be found at the following sources:

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/spor...ollege-athletics-finances-database/54955804/1
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/schools/finances/
http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/GetOneInstitutionData.aspx

Beyond those 3 sources, you can look through the school's budget available online. I've never looked at UConn's. I just looked through several of the AAU school budgets recently for a report I made. I focused on Michigan in particular because they are a big revenue generator. If you dig into the budgets in particular, you'll see how money gets allocated.

The big thing for me is that all these people calling for market forces to be respected seem to glibly ignore the bottom line (profitability), the value of sports (intrinsically tied to the schools as institutions, otherwise the value is limited as minor league sports), the space of these programs within institutions with a basic mission other than sports (so people like Hruby ignore Title IX, and DOE regulations which require a total cost breakdown above and beyond tuition for ALL students, as well as formal and informal labor practices within universities in which student and apprenticeship labor is always discounted), and most of all, the training these athletes receive that would not otherwise be available (ignoring of course, the value of a free education, which has increasingly become a farce).

I would call for several reforms:

1. Institute stricter eligibility requirements for incoming students (which allows you to completely eliminate the APR and GSR farce).
2. Shorten the seasons and amount of games so that athletes can actually receive an education
3. Do not require athletes to take a full load of courses in season.
4. Allow athletes to take money from agents and boosters and the like, sources external to the [unprofitable] athletic programs.

I think that you give every scholarship athlete a debit card with $2500 on it, and let them use it as they see fit during the course of semester and give the limits on cash withdrawals. You'll be able to track what they're doing with it.

If after one semester, 75% of the money is going to junk food on weekends - then I think you can reduce the amount of money on the debit card next semester by quite a bit.

 

[whaler11]

I think that you give every scholarship athlete a debit card with $2500 on it, and let them use it as they see fit during the course of semester and give the limits on cash withdrawals. You'll be able to track what they're doing with it.

If after one semester, 75% of the money is going to junk food on weekends - then I think you can reduce the amount of money on the debit card next semester by quite a bit.

So you support the money but only on items you see fit?

Will I need to track the interns I hire to make sure none of their money ends up in g-strings?

 

[J187Money]

I really don't buy this given the amounts of students who are working half-time to full-time. At my AAU school, it's over 60%. Retail $8 an hour summer jobs are available.

Excellent point about summer sessions however. And yet, students take those as well. Work and summer class (which run 3-4 hours a day).

Have you been in Storrs over the summer? Ghost town. So maybe you can get a job in East Hartford at the mall. IF you have a car. But if you are poor you don't have a car. So you sit in the dorm, eat meal plan, and work out and take your summer classes.

 

[J187Money]

I really don't buy this given the amounts of students who are working half-time to full-time. At my AAU school, it's over 60%. Retail $8 an hour summer jobs are available.

Excellent point about summer sessions however. And yet, students take those as well. Work and summer class (which run 3-4 hours a day).

And yes - the 60% that are working are working year round. I was an RA, I worked at Paul's Pizza, I worked in the Buckley mail room. All while going to school. BUT - I never had to tell my boss - sorry, I can't work for the next 4 months, put hold the job and then I'll be back, unless we go to a bowl, then I won't be back till January. Then I have to quit in the spring again, but hire me back in the summer (when you have no business). Why any business would put up with that in a poor economy when you have people begging for jobs? I'll hire someone that can work 12 months out of the year, or at least doesn't need every other semester off. When I was home from UCONN, I worked in restaurants, but I worked during EVERY break, and probably 2-3 weekends a semester just to ensure that I had a job in the summer or over winter break. It just isn't that simple for college athletes. Yes, some can do it, and some do. But people way oversimplify this.

 

[upstater]

And yes - the 60% that are working are working year round. I was an RA, I worked at Paul's Pizza, I worked in the Buckley mail room. All while going to school. BUT - I never had to tell my boss - sorry, I can't work for the next 4 months, put hold the job and then I'll be back, unless we go to a bowl, then I won't be back till January. Then I have to quit in the spring again, but hire me back in the summer (when you have no business). Why any business would put up with that in a poor economy when you have people begging for jobs? I'll hire someone that can work 12 months out of the year, or at least doesn't need every other semester off. When I was home from UCONN, I worked in restaurants, but I worked during EVERY break, and probably 2-3 weekends a semester just to ensure that I had a job in the summer or over winter break. It just isn't that simple for college athletes. Yes, some can do it, and some do. But people way oversimplify this.

I don't know about Storrs, so it's a problem there. What's nearby? Willimantic?

Summer jobs are not so rare, unless really there are none in Storrs. But they do exist elsewhere.

 

[ZooCougar]

And yes - the 60% that are working are working year round. I was an RA, I worked at Paul's Pizza, I worked in the Buckley mail room. All while going to school. BUT - I never had to tell my boss - sorry, I can't work for the next 4 months, put hold the job and then I'll be back, unless we go to a bowl, then I won't be back till January. Then I have to quit in the spring again, but hire me back in the summer (when you have no business). Why any business would put up with that in a poor economy when you have people begging for jobs? I'll hire someone that can work 12 months out of the year, or at least doesn't need every other semester off. When I was home from UCONN, I worked in restaurants, but I worked during EVERY break, and probably 2-3 weekends a semester just to ensure that I had a job in the summer or over winter break. It just isn't that simple for college athletes. Yes, some can do it, and some do. But people way oversimplify this.

We should implement a system where wealthy boosters match our players up with summer jobs

 

[upstater]

We should implement a system where wealthy boosters match our players up with summer jobs

That doesn't already happen?

 

[J187Money]

I don't know about Storrs, so it's a problem there. What's nearby? Willimantic?

Summer jobs are not so rare, unless really there are none in Storrs. But they do exist elsewhere.

I would have to imagine that it looks like what Penn State looks like in the summer.

 

[upstater]

I would have to imagine that it looks like what Penn State looks like in the summer.

Penn State has a lot going on, and there are jobs available. State College is horrid, but there are a lot of people there.

 

[bobbyinaz]

While I'm sure this can go on forever about whether to pay or not & how it affects the non-student athlete in regards to fees the simple answer to all of this is that this is the next step in the process of the P5 schools separating themselves from the non-P5 schools.

This is the big schools basically saying that the cost of being a member in a P5 conference that pays $20+MM per year is $2MM in "stipend" money to student athletes. For an SEC or B1G school that will be making $30+MM in the next few years it doesn't matter. To an ACC or Big 12 school (not named Texas or Notre Dame) it might be an issue although doubtful.

For an AAC, MWC or other conference school that is making less than $2MM it effectively eliminates them from competing at the P5 level

 

[huskymedic]

While I'm sure this can go on forever about whether to pay or not & how it affects the non-student athlete in regards to fees the simple answer to all of this is that this is the next step in the process of the P5 schools separating themselves from the non-P5 schools.

This is the big schools basically saying that the cost of being a member in a P5 conference that pays $20+MM per year is $2MM in "stipend" money to student athletes. For an SEC or B1G school that will be making $30+MM in the next few years it doesn't matter. To an ACC or Big 12 school (not named Texas or Notre Dame) it might be an issue although doubtful.

For an AAC, MWC or other conference school that is making less than $2MM it effectively eliminates them from competing at the P5 level

FWIW - UConn was NOT among the 161 schools who voted against the miscellaneous expense allowance.

 

[bobbyinaz]

FWIW - UConn was NOT among the 161 schools who voted against the miscellaneous expense allowance.

I know. That vote occurred in Oct 2011 at a time when UCONN thought they were in for a huge payday as a part of the Big East.

I wonder what Susan would vote today if she knew she would have to payout $2MM per year in stipends as a member of the AAC with no guarantee of being a member of a P5 conference

 

[J187Money]

Penn State has a lot going on, and there are jobs available. State College is horrid, but there are a lot of people there.

Never been out there in the summer. Guess that is a bad example.

 

[Carl Spackler]

So you support the money but only on items you see fit?

Will I need to track the interns I hire to make sure none of their money ends up in g-strings?

Umm - what? YOu have interns that you give money to? They go to strip joints? Never mind.


Yes - If you're providing them with money to spend, that they haven't really earned except to be playing a sport, it's good idea to know what they plan to spend it on. I think. THey are already subject to having to pee in cups, whether they like it or not. My hypothesis, based on years of independant observation, and personal experience, is that a bunch of 18-22 year old boys, that have a bunch of $20's on hand regularly, have a much greater chance of making those pee tests come back positive for something.

That - or they'll take a $20 here or there, or a C note, and get involved with the kind of people that need to check the scores of other games on their phones regularly while watching one game. Wink wink.

Yes- if these athletes are getting spending money, I want it spend in check/debit card form so it's trackable.