UNC scandal drags on - but NCAA will be forced to act

[CTrefugee]

NCAA rejects UNC’s arguments about classes - News and Observer, 2016-10-26
http://digital.olivesoftware.com/Ol...0/26&entity=Ar00101&Steven Krajewski=4259C9D4
If it were a school that wasn't worth big-bucks to the NCAA (e.g. UCONN) there would have been severe penalties long ago.

p.s. How can coaches claim to be educators and mentors if they were really ignorant of such blatant wrongdoing for so many years. Either:

• they failed their players
  
• or they knew.

choose one.

 

[HoopsFan21]

UConn would have received the death penalty by now.

 

[reno tony]

I have a hard time wrapping my head around the school administrators, athletic department administrators and anyone else who decided it was okay to cheat these kids out of an education. The student-athletes might have seen it as a short cut but how can some of those involved sleep at night. It wouldn't surprised me if someone sues because they received a substandard education.

 

[CocoHusky]

I have a hard time wrapping my head around the school administrators, athletic department administrators and anyone else who decided it was okay to cheat these kids out of an education. The student-athletes might have seen it as a short cut but how can some of those involved sleep at night. It wouldn't surprised me if someone sues because they received a substandard education.

Former UNC football players Michael McAdoo and Devon Ramsay and women’s basketball players Kenya McBee and Rashanda McCants have already sued UNC for "defrauding then of a proper education".

Former UNC athletes spar with university in federal court

 

[CTrefugee]

Silly law suits. Like advertising "I am too dumb to know I wasn't taking classes!"

 

[CocoHusky]

Silly law suits. Like advertising "I am too dumb to know I wasn't taking classes!"

I'm not sure I agree that the lawsuits are silly. Adults (institutions) vs. Young adults. Even the very best of the latter will always take a short cut if offered, see cheating scandals at Harvard 2012 & US Naval Academy in 1994 as examples. The institutions & (Adults) are the ones responsible for accreditation, certification, and upholding the academic standards. UNC failed to uphold the academic standards which rendered the degree "not worth" of what the institution was accredited to issue.

 

[HardHatGuy#2]

The institutions & (Adults) are the ones responsible for accreditation, certification, and upholding the academic standards.

Agree that the school is responsible for upholding standards and they failed to do so.

However, these "kids" are Adults. They knew what they were doing, knew it was wrong, and had a blast putting one over on the NCAA. They are fully responsible for what they did. Nobody forced them to not attend classes, or not do classwork, or let someone else take their test. Each of these students signed a Code of Conduct agreement when they came to school stating that they were responsible for their work; it is that way at all schools.

It takes two to tango, and both sides are wrong, here. Neither is less responsible than the other.

 

[CocoHusky]

Agree that the school is responsible for upholding standards and they failed to do so.

However, these "kids" are Adults. They knew what they were doing, knew it was wrong, and had a blast putting one over on the NCAA. They are fully responsible for what they did. Nobody forced them to not attend classes, or not do classwork, or let someone else take their test. Each of these students signed a Code of Conduct agreement when they came to school stating that they were responsible for their work; it is that way at all schools.
It takes two to tango, and both sides are wrong, here. Neither is less responsible than the other.

Both responsible? I can see that. Equally responsible, I would have to disagreed. For the vast majority of these kids, UNC was their only college experience. Therefore the standards where whatever UNC established. If the standard at UNC was you don't have to go to class to get good grades and you can still graduate guess what-most student are not going to go to class. Works the same way in the real world also with real adults.

 

[BigBird]

Once a student accepts an athletics scholarship, they are made aware that ANY deviation from the instructions of their coaches, about most anything, can cost them their scholarship. If a UNC coach said, "This is the system," then the athlete can either follow the coach's system and rules or face consequences within the program. Not exactly equal responsibility and control, nor equal liability.

 

[Ozimoto]

And looking past the NCAA implications it must be remembered that there were discussions of UNC losing their accreditation. That hasn't happened but the school is for all practical purposes put on probation. That in itself has affected the reputation of UNC Chapel Hill as an educational institution. This hit to the school's academic reputation could devalue any degree awarded by the school. Theoretically, that could impact a graduate's job prospects and earning potential. I think those impacts are totally on the school and not the student.

 

[CTrefugee]

I'm guessing the coaches, students, and relevant faculty knew what was going on. From the standpoint of the UNC people, successful sport is alumni money in the bank. For the participating students it was a four year glide.

How long would it take CD to figure out what was happening and bring down the hammer? (Have Geno & CD ever brought anyone in who would sign up for faux classes? - I doubt it.).

 

[BroadwayVa]

I have a hard time wrapping my head around the school administrators, athletic department administrators and anyone else who decided it was okay to cheat these kids out of an education. The student-athletes might have seen it as a short cut but how can some of those involved sleep at night. It wouldn't surprised me if someone sues because they received a substandard education.

It is not a long stretch to know that--systemic corruption of EDuCATioN starts from the top--in big time athletic schools ---Donors/Alum--SpORTS--MONEY --is what drives that mentality. If a person or group or school believes the benefits out weight the potential penalties---corruption win's out every time.

Didn't a few already sue UNC?? The wonderful thing is--they may get a few bucks--but they shall never get the 4 years without getting an education back. And the world will know you got diddle to go with that BA or BS.

 

[BroadwayVa]

Both responsible? I can see that. Equally responsible, I would have to disagreed. For the vast majority of these kids, UNC was their only college experience. Therefore the standards where whatever UNC established. If the standard at UNC was you don't have to go to class to get good grades and you can still graduate guess what-most student are not going to go to class. Works the same way in the real world also with real adults.

I agree- disagree. These were LEGAL adults--I say this every time someone uses that term. Their brains are not fully developed until the late 20's. I.E. they make uninformed decisions. The onus is NOT on the student -- regardless of what they signed--the adults/responsible persons were employed by the UNC.
I don't believe EVERY kid, some possibly, will not go to class every day if given a free ride. Some Women BB players, I have no clue about how many, would choose EDUCATION. I can't believe many after working for 12 or more years to achieve college --would reject EDUCATION over non-nondescript grades/classes. My guess is those that accept the no classes program really did not belong in college. OPINION obviously!! I have to say--I was a lazy student---but even I knew my degree had to stand daylight --and i'd be required one day to show what I learned.

 

[BroadwayVa]

Agree that the school is responsible for upholding standards and they failed to do so.

However, these "kids" are Adults. They knew what they were doing, knew it was wrong, and had a blast putting one over on the NCAA. They are fully responsible for what they did. Nobody forced them to not attend classes, or not do classwork, or let someone else take their test. Each of these students signed a Code of Conduct agreement when they came to school stating that they were responsible for their work; it is that way at all schools.

It takes two to tango, and both sides are wrong, here. Neither is less responsible than the other.

Until those returning from our mutlitple wars saw that it was WRONG to ask young men to fight and die --and still not being legally able to drink a beer or vote---so the age was changed to 18--not because they got an injection of brain power --it was purely political.
it has been pretty well established that the brain is not fully developed until the late 20's.
There is a significant difference between legal and capable.
Any time an institution that requires/offers/ or otherwise makes a student believe its in their interest to not attend class--regardless of any document signed--because of the POWER position the institution and coaches and administrator --the courts shall see the unfavorable status of the student--and i suggest--so should you.

 

[msf22b]

Somewhere, over the rainbow...

 

[HardHatGuy#2]

Until those returning from our mutlitple wars saw that it was WRONG to ask young men to fight and die --and still not being legally able to drink a beer or vote---so the age was changed to 18--not because they got an injection of brain power --it was purely political.
it has been pretty well established that the brain is not fully developed until the late 20's.
There is a significant difference between legal and capable.
Any time an institution that requires/offers/ or otherwise makes a student believe its in their interest to not attend class--regardless of any document signed--because of the POWER position the institution and coaches and administrator --the courts shall see the unfavorable status of the student--and i suggest--so should you.

An interesting idea; remove all responsibility from people until they are in their late 20s because their brain's aren't fully developed.

Nonsense.

At the age of 27 (late 20s), I had completed my tour in the Army, graduated from college, was nearly finished with grad school, had purchased my own house, paid my taxes (timely and correctly) 9 times, voted in three Presidential elections, and had started saving up for retirement. I had not cheated in college, willfully defrauded any institution, sued anybody, or been arrested for any reason (still haven't). Seems like I was pretty darn responsible.

The concept that they aren't responsible for what they did is ludicrous. Maybe the problem is that when I was their age, we were held responsible for our actions, so we acted responsibly.

 

[HGN]

The only thing I will say about this mess is that it's obvious the NCAA is dragging its feet to properly punish UNC. If UNC was not such a big $$ maker for them , and not in a so called Power 5 conference , UNC would be led to the gallows and sentenced to the Death Penalty. Many other schools have been sentenced to severe punishment for far less transgressions.........And it didn't matter if it was the coaches fault , school admin , or athletes fault. If the violation happened the school would have been hit and hit hard.

 

[Florida Fan]

The cheating started in high school when the athletes were relieved of the student responsibility, manipulating grades to maintain eligibility. So it's sytemic, but no excuse for colleges to continue the charade. Many of the NC athletes had serious academic deficiencies, including unremediated learning disabilities from poorly rated schools. "Big-Time", money making college sports is ripe for corruption, from using athletes as professionals while playing lip service to their academic progress to using strippers to influence recruits. NC got caught with some dramatic examples of no-show and sham classes, but all the major conferences walk a tight rope of NCAA violations.

I have a hard time wrapping my head around the school administrators, athletic department administrators and anyone else who decided it was okay to cheat these kids out of an education. The student-athletes might have seen it as a short cut but how can some of those involved sleep at night. It wouldn't surprised me if someone sues because they received a substandard education.

d i

 

[Icebear]

I understand that NCAA is preparing to give SMU the death penalty for UNC violations.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

The NCAA is rotten to the core; it's heroes are the IOC and FIBA.

 

[BroadwayVa]

An interesting idea; remove all responsibility from people until they are in their late 20s because their brain's aren't fully developed.

Nonsense.

At the age of 27 (late 20s), I had completed my tour in the Army, graduated from college, was nearly finished with grad school, had purchased my own house, paid my taxes (timely and correctly) 9 times, voted in three Presidential elections, and had started saving up for retirement. I had not cheated in college, willfully defrauded any institution, sued anybody, or been arrested for any reason (still haven't). Seems like I was pretty darn responsible.

The concept that they aren't responsible for what they did is ludicrous. Maybe the problem is that when I was their age, we were held responsible for our actions, so we acted responsibly.

Didn't they write a song about you?? MR. WONDERFUL--THAT'S ME?

There is a reason 18 year olds are drafted to fight OUR wars---not so much 30 year olds (drafted)

 

[CocoHusky]

An interesting idea; remove all responsibility from people until they are in their late 20s because their brain's aren't fully developed.

Nonsense.
At the age of 27 (late 20s), I had completed my tour in the Army, graduated from college, was nearly finished with grad school, had purchased my own house, paid my taxes (timely and correctly) 9 times, voted in three Presidential elections, and had started saving up for retirement. I had not cheated in college, willfully defrauded any institution, sued anybody, or been arrested for any reason (still haven't). Seems like I was pretty darn responsible.
The concept that they aren't responsible for what they did is ludicrous. Maybe the problem is that when I was their age, we were held responsible for our actions, so we acted responsibly.

I don't believe anyone said they are not responsible. The premise was they (students) are not AS responsible as the institutions and its leaders.
The things that you list as accomplishments that make you "responsible" like never being arrested, are not accomplishments at all, they are actually fairly common. Thanks for your service to this great country.

 

[meyers7]

I don't believe anyone said they are not responsible.

They certainly have implied it.

The things that you list as accomplishments that make you "responsible" like never being arrested, are not accomplishments at all, they are actually fairly common.

He didn't actually call them accomplishments. And true they are fairly common, because most people are fairly responsible. Quite different from the "students" (and faculty) we are discussing.

 

[shizam]

NCAA rejects UNC’s arguments about classes - News and Observer, 2016-10-26
If it were a school that wasn't worth big-bucks to the NCAA (e.g. UCONN) there would have been severe penalties long ago.

p.s. How can coaches claim to be educators and mentors if they were really ignorant of such blatant wrongdoing for so many years. Either:

• they failed their players
  
• or they knew.

choose one.

Totally in agreement with you . Nice insight. No question NC is receiving favorable treatment because of who they are.

 

[HGN]

I understand that NCAA is preparing to give SMU the death penalty for UNC violations.

Ice , that's a good one.