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Uconn recruiting and the AAC

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doggydaddy

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There have been a few spirited debates on the impact of the weak conference on recruiting top players.

The conference was officially formed in early April, but the old Big East had dissolved when the Catholic Seven announced they were leaving. There was uncertainty about Uconn's future conference. None of the big 5 were adding more teams.

So, in my opinion, Edwards, Williams, Nurse and now Collier all knew to some degree how weak the AAC would be.

I now ask if this is enough proof that conference affiliation has little to do with Uconn's ability to recruit going forward?

If it's not enough proof, how many more top recruits have to commit to remove any doubt?
 
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There have been a few spirited debates on the impact of the weak conference on recruiting top players.

The conference was officially formed in early April, but the old Big East had dissolved when the Catholic Seven announced they were leaving. There was uncertainty about Uconn's future conference. None of the big 5 were adding more teams.

So, in my opinion, Edwards, Williams, Nurse and now Collier all knew to some degree how weak the AAC would be.

I now ask if this is enough proof that conference affiliation has little to do with Uconn's ability to recruit going forward?

If it's not enough proof, how many more top recruits have to commit to remove any doubt?
To be fair, I think the naysayers were talking a little further down the road. We've got one year (technically ten months, but who's counting?) of the AAC under our belt. I don't think anyone thought UConn WCBB was just going to go from winning a national championship to non-existent in a single year. Let's see how things shake out in five years when Geno has recruited his last class and is more focused on finding a successor. Hopefully we aren't in the AAC in five years from now to find out.
 
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Geno-ista

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Great thread DD!!! I also agree with both posts above! Over time it may take it's toll. I think it hurts the men before the women's program in time. But we certainly started the new conference off with a bang!!! (U can add Ekmark above to DD).after meeting Ekmark, she is mature beyond her yrs, she may be an impact player with Nurse next yr.
 
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This is a great topic, because it requires that we talk about our view of the future, which means we can disagree endlessly, with no one ever being right...until proven so years later.

I am one of those who has little doubt that membership in the AAC will eventually affect UConn's ability to recruit the best players long -term.

You're right, there's no question UConn has a nice haul of students coming in, and things are already looking pretty good for the following year. I'm really looking forward to seeing how this team comes together. But recruits are coming to UConn because right now, UConn is riding as high as a college basketball program can.

Now it is possible (though I would argue unlikely) that UConn can become a thriving major-league team in a mid-major conference, which is something I don't think we've seen in a long time. If they can, in essence, create their own brand for men's and women's basketball -- become, as Geno says "in a league of our own" -- then it will be unprecedented, and all bets are off. But the chances of that happening are, in my opinion, slim. Notre Dame could do it in football. Basketball, it seems to me, is quite a different sport.

I cast my lot with Gary Blair, who thinks UConn eventually will have problems getting all the top-notch out-of-conference games that it gets now, for several reasons, not the least of which is that its power record (whether RPI or other) will be dragged down by all those games against all those not-so-good teams, thereby making UConn a less attractive draw from a strength-of-schedule point of view. And with that change will come, again eventually, an erosion in UConn's ability to bring in the best of the recruits as it can now.

Will it ever get as bad as the decline at La Tech, where Blair worked? No, for several reasons. First, UConn has IMHO, the best coach in sports, period. That alone is a powerful draw. And when he retires, some day, he will leave a legacy, no matter who succeeds him. Unless something horrible happens, this is not like Pat at TN. This will be carrying on a true tradition, one that makes recruits proud to be on the team, even if Geno is not around.

Second, UConn is going to continue to have a terrific record, no matter who it plays, for years to come. Again, a powerful attraction. And third, a rising tide raises all boats, which in AAC terms means that UConn may (boy, do I hope!) make at least the mediocre teams more attractive and cause them to make a stronger commitment to WCBB.

Now, lots of things could cause this scenario to improve. The first is if UConn is accepted into one of the major leagues. Take your pick, makes no difference which. But if that's dependent on football you're looking at a long wait, even though the new football coach seems to be the real deal. Second, if a couple of AAC teams get their acts together -- develop themselves as, say, Louisville did -- the league looks a lot stronger and will be taken more seriously. Odds are against those things happening, but you can never say never.

I submit that pointing to a wonderfully successful recruiting class (or even two in a row) as proof that AAC affiliation means nothing is akin to claiming that two frigid winters in a row proves that global warming is bunk. The real answer to your question is "no number," because there is no magic number of five-star recruits that proves anything. If in 2020 UConn is still a top 3 power, still recruiting lots of top 10 recruits and competing as it does now, I guess I'd be convinced. But I believe that because this is long term, neither you nor I can make any claims with authority until the long term plays itself out.
 

doggydaddy

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To be fair, I think the naysayers were talking a little further down the road. We've got one year (technically ten months, but who's counting?) of the AAC under our belt. I don't think anyone thought UConn WCBB was just going to go from winning a national championship to non-existent in a single year. Let's see how things shake out in five years when Geno has recruited his last class and is more focused on finding a successor. Hopefully we aren't in the AAC in five years from now to find out.

I don't recall the naysayers talking further down the road at all.

How things shake out in five years?
 

doggydaddy

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Great thread DD!!! I also agree with both posts above! Over time it may take it's toll. I think it hurts the men before the women's program in time. But we certainly started the new conference off with a bang!!! (U can add Ekmark above to DD).after meeting Ekmark, she is mature beyond her yrs, she may be an impact player with Nurse next yr.
Ekmark committed before the conference broke up.
 

doggydaddy

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This is a great topic, because it requires that we talk about our view of the future, which means we can disagree endlessly, with no one ever being right...until proven so years later.

I am one of those who has little doubt that membership in the AAC will eventually affect UConn's ability to recruit the best players long -term.

You're right, there's no question UConn has a nice haul of students coming in, and things are already looking pretty good for the following year. I'm really looking forward to seeing how this team comes together. But recruits are coming to UConn because right now, UConn is riding as high as a college basketball program can.

Now it is possible (though I would argue unlikely) that UConn can become a thriving major-league team in a mid-major conference, which is something I don't think we've seen in a long time. If they can, in essence, create their own brand for men's and women's basketball -- become, as Geno says "in a league of our own" -- then it will be unprecedented, and all bets are off. But the chances of that happening are, in my opinion, slim. Notre Dame could do it in football. Basketball, it seems to me, is quite a different sport.

I cast my lot with Gary Blair, who thinks UConn eventually will have problems getting all the top-notch out-of-conference games that it gets now, for several reasons, not the least of which is that its power record (whether RPI or other) will be dragged down by all those games against all those not-so-good teams, thereby making UConn a less attractive draw from a strength-of-schedule point of view. And with that change will come, again eventually, an erosion in UConn's ability to bring in the best of the recruits as it can now.

Will it ever get as bad as the decline at La Tech, where Blair worked? No, for several reasons. First, UConn has IMHO, the best coach in sports, period. That alone is a powerful draw. And when he retires, some day, he will leave a legacy, no matter who succeeds him. Unless something horrible happens, this is not like Pat at TN. This will be carrying on a true tradition, one that makes recruits proud to be on the team, even if Geno is not around.

Second, UConn is going to continue to have a terrific record, no matter who it plays, for years to come. Again, a powerful attraction. And third, a rising tide raises all boats, which in AAC terms means that UConn may (boy, do I hope!) make at least the mediocre teams more attractive and cause them to make a stronger commitment to WCBB.

Now, lots of things could cause this scenario to improve. The first is if UConn is accepted into one of the major leagues. Take your pick, makes no difference which. But if that's dependent on football you're looking at a long wait, even though the new football coach seems to be the real deal. Second, if a couple of AAC teams get their acts together -- develop themselves as, say, Louisville did -- the league looks a lot stronger and will be taken more seriously. Odds are against those things happening, but you can never say never.

I submit that pointing to a wonderfully successful recruiting class (or even two in a row) as proof that AAC affiliation means nothing is akin to claiming that two frigid winters in a row proves that global warming is bunk. The real answer to your question is "no number," because there is no magic number of five-star recruits that proves anything. If in 2020 UConn is still a top 3 power, still recruiting lots of top 10 recruits and competing as it does now, I guess I'd be convinced. But I believe that because this is long term, neither you nor I can make any claims with authority until the long term plays itself out.
Wow, you need 6 more years of top recruiting to be convinced?

You say that nothing can be proved about future recruiting. I totally disagree. When Uconn gets a few more top 15 recruits out of 2015 why would future lousy AAC performance change the opinion of any future top recruit. The future ones look at it differently?

As long as Geno is there, great players will want to play for him. You don't need a crystal ball to see the future based on that.

When you find ONE recruit say that conference weakness was a reason they didn't choose Uconn, it will be the first.
 

cockhrnleghrn

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Wow, you need 6 more years of top recruiting to be convinced?

You say that nothing can be proved about future recruiting. I totally disagree. When Uconn gets a few more top 15 recruits out of 2015 why would future lousy AAC performance change the opinion of any future top recruit. The future ones look at it differently?

As long as Geno is there, great players will want to play for him. You don't need a crystal ball to see the future based on that.

When you find ONE recruit say that conference weakness was a reason they didn't choose Uconn, it will be the first.
Yes, as long as Geno is there, you will get top recruits, but what do you do when he retires? IMO, your biggest concern needs to be money to be able to keep up in the area of facilities improvements. I know Connecticut is one of the wealthiest states in the country, but is that enough to overcome, maybe, a $15 million annual deficit in TV money? I'm just posing the question; I don't know the answer.
 

doggydaddy

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Yes, as long as Geno is there, you will get top recruits, but what do you do when he retires? IMO, your biggest concern needs to be money to be able to keep up in the area of facilities improvements. I know Connecticut is one of the wealthiest states in the country, but is that enough to overcome, maybe, a $15 million annual deficit in TV money? I'm just posing the question; I don't know the answer.
Uconn is in the process of building a state of the Art basketball practice facility rivaling any other university in the country.

http://www.uconnbasketballcenter.com

So much can change enforce Geno's contract expires. He could easily sign for another 5 years. The AAC could improve looks the BE did. Uconn could be asked to another conference.

The odds of one or more of those happening are pretty good.
 

CL82

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As long as we are the defending national champions, I don't see the AAC having any significant impact. If we, due to injury or an under performing recruiting class, have a dry spell, it could well have an impact if the non-conference schedule weakens. Of course that was a whole lot of hypothetical bad things happening all at once. UCWBB will be the least affected of all Connecticut teams by the AAC.
 

Icebear

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To be fair some, also, were saying 3-5 years which would be the classes of 2016-18.
 

Husky25

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Aside from the last 3 years (Notre Dame), The Big East offered the same futile competition the AAC does. The women's game won't suffer until Auriemma retires...which might be sooner than you think. He can withdraw from his 401(k) without penalty.
 
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c

If it's not enough proof, how many more top recruits have to commit to remove any doubt?[/quote]

This is an interesting topic and I do not see how it can possibly be answered by this or that recruit today or a year- or even 3 down the road. But it is an empirical question that we can address in the years to come. I am taking the warning by Gary Blair seriously- and I am sure the Program is thinking about how it might position itself to ameloriate the short falls from being in this situation. Given the number of games we must play in the AAC, it would be unreasonable to think that we can overlook playing top 10 teams in the out of conf. schedule. I suspect that these games will not be easy to find as the within conf. games become more and more competitive. Take Stanford as an expl. They have been willing to play us (as we were when the Pac was weak to help them out), but the Pac is getting stronger and so the years of playing them 2 x (as we once did?) are gone. But it is impt for them and us to hold fast to our rivalry (I don't think they would be happy to see UCLA replace them as our preferred destination). And more. I have toyed around with the idea that we builded the BE and can do the same with the AAC. But these are 2 different realities. The BE was something waiting to happen and the same cannot be said for the latter. Of course it can be done. The question is one of money and time. My guess is that the monies that are coming in are for FB. Lastly, I question the longterm stability of the AAC. Too many teams (including us?) will leave even if they have to clean the shoes of the Bigs. All the 'wanna be' FB schools are waiting for an invite- and there are enough speculations out there about 2-3 schools that the Big 12(or whatever no. it is today) will be forced to expand and these are the best of the less desirables.
When it is said and done, much hinges on the ACC. Yes, the ACC. Will there be consequences for Deshield's exit. Will it set them back. If NC is set back (and Duke remaining in quicksand, even though it doesn't hurt them), suddently the ACC is not the power house of WBB. The NDs of the world might be rethinking the thing about 'who-needs-who'.
 

cohenzone

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Big East women's hoops was not Big East men's hoops. A few teams occasionally strong and most teams perpetually lousy. Moreover, I think the teams that became better managed that because UConn was in the league and nothing says that won't happen in the AAC. There were at least a few teams coached well enough to make me think that if the coaches sell to recruits the chance to play against UConn, you might get a West Virginia, St. Johns, GTown or Cuse improvement out of the lot. It isn't as if all of the "major" conferences are chest deep in great teams.
 

Ozzie Nelson

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Any way some of you worriers/and/or/naysayers can enjoy the the present moment of UCONN basketball, or in some cases, just deal with it?

If the only negative tool you have to critique Geno and his troops is to suggest problems may be ahead, you need to work on capturing the day, or lat least appreciating it. Of course, some here just want to change the subject to fit their own cognition.

IAC, your gloom and doom will not cloud over my sunshine.

walking-into-sunshine.jpeg
 
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I cast my lot with Gary Blair, who thinks UConn eventually will have problems getting all the top-notch out-of-conference games that it gets now, for several reasons, not the least of which is that its power record (whether RPI or other) will be dragged down by all those games against all those not-so-good teams, thereby making UConn a less attractive draw from a strength-of-schedule point of view

I do not grasp the adherence to the notion of "strength of schedule". Supposedly it "rewards" you for playing tougher opponents and penalizes you for playing easier opponents. If you are top ten, ANY game with any team ranked 100 or more is ?equally? as easy but yet, all of the SOS systems penalize less for playing #100 vs. playing #300.

Further, if you are # 49, which SOS is tougher? - playing #1 and 100 or #50 and 51. SOS is a meaningless/arbitrary metric. (Compliments Phil)

The only metric that ought to matter is the ranking (and I'd argue only "real" mathematical models allowed here too as they take out nonsense like RPI which can be gamed and/or emotion like the polls)
 

doggydaddy

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I'd love for someone to explain what future recruits will see that the current commits don't see in regard to conference weakness. More specifically, does anyone think that Collier doesn't understand the conference situation?

Why would it change 4-6 years out?
 
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While conference weakness is something other programs can try to use to recruit against UConn, the counter argument is easy to make for UConn. "UConn has one of the toughest out of conference schedules in the country. You'll get to play against teams like Stanford, Notre Dame, Duke, Maryland, South Carolina ever year during the regular season... add to that we been to 7 consecutive final fours and 4 championship games in the last 6 years... if you want to play in big games, UConn is the best school for you."
 

meyers7

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Any way some of you worriers/and/or/naysayers can enjoy the the present moment of UCONN basketball, or in some cases, just deal with it?

If the only negative tool you have to critique Geno and his troops is to suggest problems may be ahead, you need to work on capturing the day, or lat least appreciating it. Of course, some here just want to change the subject to fit their own cognition.

IAC, your gloom and doom will not cloud over my sunshine.

walking-into-sunshine.jpeg
Ummm, that pretty much looks like a 'sunset'. You sure you want THAT picture??? :confused:
 

Kibitzer

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Uconn is in the process of building a state of the Art basketball practice facility rivaling any other university in the country.

http://www.uconnbasketballcenter.com

So much can change enforce Geno's contract expires. He could easily sign for another 5 years. The AAC could improve looks the BE did. Uconn could be asked to another conference.

The odds of one or more of those happening are pretty good.

Spot-on, DD. One at a time.

The Basketball Development Center (eventually the Geno Auriemma Center) surpasses anything anywhere. It starts with the Hall of Fame, before you reach women's facilities (courts, offices, etc.) that perfectly match those for the men

Geno has given no sign of an early retirement. I persist in my belief that he won't step down without at least eleven NC trophies.

I disagree with the widespread assumption that bb teams in the AAC will continue to stink and those power conferences will continue their domination. (What domination?) I will not be surprised to see a few AAC teams (like Memphis or SMU?) make a commitment from the top and pull in some players to climb the ladder, even passing Auburn, Alabama, Clemson, Washington State, and all that mediocrity that resides in the Big 10 and Big 12.

And as sure as the Lord provides little green apples, somebody in the Big 10 hierarchy will realize that "OOPS! What the hell were we thinking when we invited Rutgers cuz we thought they were hot in the huge and lucrative NYC TV market?" And, BTW, there are lots of TVs in New Enland -- and NYC!​

I guess you can say that I don't think that UConn is at all doomed by the AAC. We count on Geno and Kevin and have high hopes for Diaco.

I gotta like our chances.
 

meyers7

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Well for us naysayers, yes we were talking about down the road. I specifically was talking about after Geno leaves. That's when I think the AAC could hurt UCONN.

Right now, I don't think it's going to matter much. Unless there is a drop in budget, do to lost revenues from football. That could hurt things like recruiting, as in trips, etc. right now.

On the other hand, for the most part, being in the AAC doesn't help recruiting any either. UCONN HAS to tout it's OOC schedule, because it's conference schedule is so poor. Other schools don't have to do that. They can use their conference as a selling point, UCONN can't. It could be helpful though getting into markets like Texas though. That might be a plus.

But again, I don't think it's going to make a lot of difference until after Geno leaves. So this whole thread is pretty premature.
 
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