U of Cincinnati WBB a Victim of Inequality?

[Charliebball]

A really difficult case of fairness versus the financial realities of WBB

Cincinnati will play at a high school for 2017-2018 season.

 

[Charliebball]

Per Raul:

Here's what Oscar Robertson says:

Oscar Robertson to UC: Find a better solution for women's basketball team

 

[CTrefugee]

1. It's one year (until renovations are complete).
2. They could try to schedule the UCONN game and any others that will draw more than 1000 in the bigger venue (probably none).

Not a big deal, rather a logical decision.

 

[bags27]

1. It's one year (until renovations are complete).
2. They could try to schedule the UConn game and any others that will draw more than 1000 in the bigger venue (probably none).

Not a big deal, rather a logical decision.

I agree it's not "a big deal" in a practical sense, but it's a really, really bad message symbolically. When the Big O talks, people should listen: "I think that it’s really difficult for the women to accept something like that, in this day and age,” Robertson told me. “They should play the same night the men play, but instead of eight o’clock play at 6. Or play in the afternoon.” In fact, wouldn't it be really cool to have a double header like that. Might start a trend, and might draw more students to the women's games.

 

[eebmg]

While it does make sense to take into account attendance figures in deciding venue, (recall Geno's thoughts on this regarding the tournament venues), the biggest stigma is that the venue is a HS Gym. A better solution should be found.

 

[ochoopsfan]

UC averaged 827 for their 17 home games this past season.
There were only 3 games that the fans who attended the games could not fit into the HS gym they will play in next season.
A game against Xavier that had 1362 attend, a game vs Memphis that had 1170 attend, and a game against some team called UConn that had 4029. My best suggestion is to schedule the UConn game as a double header, wherever the men will play, and perhaps the same thing for Xavier as they are an in state rival.

 

[drweo]

It does look like a situation in which more creative thinking, more effort and adapting were called for. The suggestion from ochooops seems workable and would send a different message than the one chosen by Cincinnati.

 

[stamfordhusky]

. “They should play the same night the men play, but instead of eight o’clock play at 6. Or play in the afternoon.”

The 6/8 solution would be a non-starter. But 5 PM, 8 PM might work. The men's coaches normally want a 3-hour separation between starting times, to give them time for their normal warm-up and to give them a starting time that doesn't get set back if the women's game goes a couple of OT's.

But would the women even want a 5 PM start? There would likely be no fans of the men's team there, and it might make them feel even more like second-class citizens. Starting that early during the week might also cost them some of their normal fans, who couldn't get there that early on a work night.

 

[Wally East]

Maybe they could set up something with Xavier, which is also in Cincy?

 

[Florida Fan]

Don't know how Jamelle could proactively complain, without jeopardizing her coaching position. And we don't know if her recruiting is in an upward or downward spiral. The team was doing better, but without some secret weapon, this has to hurt her progress toward a competitive team. Almost any alternative would be better than this high school gym, no matter how attractive the setting. No way to get around the second-class message to the coach and her team.

 

[Vowelguy]

Management 101: they should've had Jamelle involved and gotten her onboard. PR messup.

Given that NKU is 20-30 minutes away, that hardly seems like a viable solution for a WCBB team that has such little interest. Xavier is just minutes away. Given that they're rivals, maybe they werent interested in loaning out their building, but that seems like the more logical solution.

Keep in mind that their biggest home games this past year will likely be road games next season.

Another option: reduce the number of home games next year and also send them to a tournament in a nice location.

 

[DaddyChoc]

geesh I thought it said Cincinnati would be playing a High School team this coming season

 

[j66kicker]

Where they play this coming year would only affect 2017 recruits, right? Presumably that class is already fixed (??). And she can sell the new arena to class of 2018+ recruits

 

[triaddukefan]

A bit different, but NC State WCBB played in a high school gym during the 2015-16 while their arena was being renovated. The HS Gym had a capacity of 3,000. Its different in that the men's and women's teams play in separate arenas..... an moving the games to the men's arena probably wasnt feasible in that the men's team shares its arena with a NHL team.

 

[BroadwayVa]

I agree it's not "a big deal" in a practical sense, but it's a really, really bad message symbolically. When the Big O talks, people should listen: "I think that it’s really difficult for the women to accept something like that, in this day and age,” Robertson told me. “They should play the same night the men play, but instead of eight o’clock play at 6. Or play in the afternoon.” In fact, wouldn't it be really cool to have a double header like that. Might start a trend, and might draw more students to the women's games.

I attended many games at the Naval Academy -Women's games at 6 , men's games at 8---and it worked well for everyone---and as a fan--I got to watch two great games.
That was abt 18 years ago.

 

[BroadwayVa]

Don't know how Jamelle could proactively complain, without jeopardizing her coaching position. And we don't know if her recruiting is in an upward or downward spiral. The team was doing better, but without some secret weapon, this has to hurt her progress toward a competitive team. Almost any alternative would be better than this high school gym, no matter how attractive the setting. No way to get around the second-class message to the coach and her team.

This has to hurt Jamelles recruiting, which isn't super great now. Jamelle could complain--probably to deaf ears--some things just are as they are--and accepting them. But when you are trying to build an upwardly mobile program--every tiny thing hurts.
Xavier, while a rival, probably doesn't need that as an excuse--their building is probably used for tier functions and not available.
The Big O--may be trying to help--but unless he looked into the situation---that isn't always helpful.

 

[Waquoit]

Don't know how Jamelle could proactively complain, without jeopardizing her coaching position.

What can she say? If UC took WBB seriously she would probably would have been sacked already.

 

[HopJim]

Don't know how Jamelle could proactively complain, without jeopardizing her coaching position. And we don't know if her recruiting is in an upward or downward spiral. The team was doing better, but without some secret weapon, this has to hurt her progress toward a competitive team. Almost any alternative would be better than this high school gym, no matter how attractive the setting. No way to get around the second-class message to the coach and her team.

Understand the second guessing but without knowing the HS gym conditions, seems like reasonable alternative. Every game off site is a cost to the school. Is it worth significant extra money when the larger gym is not needed to host typical crowds, particularly when a temporary solution? Many colleges, such as Boston University, have two gyms and often play mens and women's games in the smaller gym because its practical. Filling a smaller venue often provides better crowd experience than having a larger, but empty, gym.

 

[ochoopsfan]

Back in the 2011/12 season UCLA had to play their games at the Wooden Center, another facility on the campus(Pauley Pavilion was being remodeled). It only held 2000 people. The men played at the LA Sports Arena, which was a block away from the USC campus.

 

[stamfordhusky]

Understand the second guessing but without knowing the HS gym conditions, seems like reasonable alternative. Every game off site is a cost to the school. Is it worth significant extra money when the larger gym is not needed to host typical crowds, particularly when a temporary solution? Many colleges, such as Boston University, have two gyms and often play mens and women's games in the smaller gym because its practical. Filling a smaller venue often provides better crowd experience than having a larger, but empty, gym.

Yes, the smaller venue is definitely a better crowd experience than a huge, empty arena. Boston U now plays 100% of their games - men and women - in tiny Case Gym because neither team ever draws enough to even fill the 1800 capacity Case. It was a joke a few years ago when the men played games in 7500 seat Agganis Arena in front of 700 people.

 

[tomcat]

I agree it's not "a big deal" in a practical sense, but it's a really, really bad message symbolically. When the Big O talks, people should listen: "I think that it’s really difficult for the women to accept something like that, in this day and age,” Robertson told me. “They should play the same night the men play, but instead of eight o’clock play at 6. Or play in the afternoon.” In fact, wouldn't it be really cool to have a double header like that. Might start a trend, and might draw more students to the women's games.

Exactly. Because of my work, I deal with the world of "what seems to be," rather than "what is." Even if their average women's game attendance is 12 people a game, they still should not do this. Once this is a reality, they will never, repeat, NEVER, be able to recruit a serious female player, because the school itself has told the WCBB team exactly what it thinks of women's sports. Whether or not that is a fair assessment matters not one whit, because it is what recruiters will use against Cincy and it is what anyone with an ounce of feminism in them will think about the school. I cannot imagine having to coach the team after something like this.