Time to go to the soccer model

[Waquoit]

Cut out the useless overhead of conferences and go to a modified soccer model. I'll throw out the 1st straw man:

· Eight 13 team divisions as close to East-West as you can get it. Two A-level, B-level, etc. That's 108 teams, if there are more teams in D-1 you can put the extra in the lower tier.
· Have 2-year cycles providing a home-and-home with each other team in each division.
· Top 3 teams move up, bottom 3 move down each cycle.
· NC tournament would match the top (2,3,4 whatever) teams in the A-level.
· Have at least one Bowl game for each level matching their respective the top teams. If more bowls still exist they could be match the 5th team in the A’s, 2nd in the B’s, etc.

Every game would matter. It would remove most of the politics and luck. After the initial seeding, we wouldn’t need a huge committee just to figure out who belongs in the tournament. It would be a meritocracy.

 

[WestHartHusk]

Cut out the useless overhead of conferences and go to a modified soccer model. I'll throw out the 1st straw man:

· Eight 13 team divisions as close to East-West as you can get it. Two A-level, B-level, etc. That's 108 teams, if there are more teams in D-1 you can put the extra in the lower tier.
· Have 2-year cycles providing a home-and-home with each other team in each division.
· Top 3 teams move up, bottom 3 move down each cycle.
· NC tournament would match the top (2,3,4 whatever) teams in the A-level.
· Have at least one Bowl game for each level matching their respective the top teams. If more bowls still exist they could be match the 5th team in the A’s, 2nd in the B’s, etc.

Every game would matter. It would remove most of the politics and luck. After the initial seeding, we wouldn’t need a huge committee just to figure out who belongs in the tournament. It would be a meritocracy.

You are assuming they want a meritocracy, which they don't. In fact, they want (and largely have) exactly the opposite.

But as my icon indicates, I am totally in for a relegation system.

 

[CL82]

Genius. Every one of the current Have-nots will hail this as the one true solution to the CR problem.

Unfortunately none of the Haves will sign on so....

 

[junglehusky]

SBN did a whole series on this, plotting out what-would-happen scenario from 2005-2012. Worth spending a few minutes (or longer) reading for shizts and giggles.

 

[huskymedic]

Updated...

College football relegation revisited: Updating the simulation to 2014
http://www.sbnation.com/college-foo...llege-football-promotion-relegation-2013-2014

 

[SAMCRO]

I'd love it. I love in in European soccer, and would love it in CFB. Now, back to the Russian Women's Curling team...

 

[CTMike]

Genius. Every one of the current Have-nots will hail this as the one true solution to the CR problem.

Unfortunately none of the Haves will sign on so....

I agree... but... what exactly do the "haves" have to worry about? The churn would be between the bottom half A teams/top few B teams.

 

[Section137]

I agree... but... what exactly do the "haves" have to worry about? The churn would be between the bottom half A teams/top few B teams.

First, I love this idea.

Second, what CTMike said is 100% true. ManU, Liverpool, Arsenal and Chelsea don't worry about relegation. If you are a Cardiff City or Crystal Palace (or an Iowa State/Indiana), you should be concerned.

 

[UCFBfan]

First, I love this idea.

Second, what CTMike said is 100% true. ManU, Liverpool, Arsenal and Chelsea don't worry about relegation. If you are a Cardiff City or Crystal Palace (or an Iowa State/Indiana), you should be concerned.

This. There are about 6 teams in the EPL that never have to worry about relegation, then there are another 4 that come close but never truly push, and then the rest stay up for a bit and then sink back down. The same would be the said for this idea. The bottom two teams in the SEC, half of the ACC, and some of the B1G/Pac12/Big 12 would be worried. If you look at the standings, usually you find the same names near the bottom of those conferences, those would be the "haves" that might not sign off on this.

 

[Sky ball]

This. There are about 6 teams in the EPL that never have to worry about relegation, then there are another 4 that come close but never truly push, and then the rest stay up for a bit and then sink back down. The same would be the said for this idea. The bottom two teams in the SEC, half of the ACC, and some of the B1G/Pac12/Big 12 would be worried. If you look at the standings, usually you find the same names near the bottom of those conferences, those would be the "haves" that might not sign off on this.

The "Haves" won't sign on because they are scared of relegation. They won't sign on because they have the money and care not to share.

 

[UCFBfan]

The "Haves" won't sign on because they are scared of relegation. They won't sign on because they have the money and care not to share.

True but it's always nice to dream!

 

[AZHuskiePop]

This. There are about 6 teams in the EPL that never have to worry about relegation, then there are another 4 that come close but never truly push, and then the rest stay up for a bit and then sink back down. The same would be the said for this idea. The bottom two teams in the SEC, half of the ACC, and some of the B1G/Pac12/Big 12 would be worried. If you look at the standings, usually you find the same names near the bottom of those conferences, those would be the "haves" that might not sign off on this.

Let me get this straight your Football team's record sets you down a level even if your BB team just won a NC.
Wait that sounds like UConn in CR.

 

[billybud]

There also are "legacy" teams.

A legacy team may not be the top of the conference but they have 50 years of history with the conference.

Indiana, Wake Forest type teams.

 

[UCFBfan]

There also are "legacy" teams.

A legacy team may not be the top of the conference but they have 50 years of history with the conference.

Indiana, Wake Forest type teams.

Seriously...."legacy"? Cut the crap. You don't deserve a spot because you just happened to be in a conference longer or play in that conference at the FBS level. If you crap the bed 48 out of 50 years, like your Indiana's and WF, you don't deserve a spot over some of the teams left out. Boise would have a strong claim over many of those teams.

 

[billybud]

Well...re Wake..

From 2000-2013..

If you dropped all teams with a lower winning percentage then Wake...

You'd have to drop Baylor, Arizona, Illinois, Washington, Washington State, Syracuse, Colorado, Mississippi state, North Carolina, Kansas, Kentucky, Indiana, Penn State, Vanderbilt...and a few others less notable.

 

[UCFBfan]

Well...re Wake..

From 2000-2013..

If you dropped all teams with a lower winning percentage then Wake...

You'd have to drop Baylor, Arizona, Illinois, Washington, Washington State, Syracuse, Colorado, Mississippi state, North Carolina, Kansas, Kentucky, Indiana, Penn State, Vanderbilt...and a few others less notable.

That's fine with me. They were just an example in a fantasy scenario. You wanna drop those teams instead, go for it. That's the beauty of the relegation system.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

There is no way in hell anyone from a P-5 conference would consider implementing a relegation system for college athletics.

 

[billybud]

There is an active discussion of the value of Wake on my home board...This, I thought, was an interesting comment:

"On one hand, Wake is a great school, and does bring value in all the ways mentioned by others herein.

However, the "wake problem" is in-part an issue of student-body & alumni-population smallness, combined with the fact that the ACC contains four schools from the same state, which is not a top-5 state in terms of TV eyeballs.

UNC & Duke likely attract the majority of eyeballs in the state of NC, plus they attract eyeballs from across the country in basketball. Wake Forest and NC State do not attract nationally, and share many of the same sets of eyeballs the ACC enjoys with UNC & Duke as members.

So while Wake's many advantages can also be added to the Tobacco Road rivalries as a reason to never consider "removing" a founding conference member (Wake) from the club, the possibility of adding a new geography (many new eyeballs), or a "national program" (Notre Dame - many millions of new eyeballs), without further dividing the ACC revenue pie, is enticing to the conference members who are looking to increase individual school revenue, even if just a mental exercise.

As far as who could replace Wake (and/or NC State if you wanted to remove a fewer-eyeball-attracting North Carolina school from ACC membership)?

Notre Dame is the only obvious choice. Potential replacements would generally have to come from the American Conference:

U-Conn: Great basketball, 40,000-person stadium, nearness to both Boston & NYC, state w/a decent population

Cincinnati: Distant 2nd in the state of Ohio (on the border of Big Ten country), oldest stadium in major college football (getting a renovation, I think), very good basketball

Houston: Similar to Louisville in its "commuter school" academic image, 5th largest alumni/fans in the state of Texas (very large state forming the nucleus of Big XII country, however), situated in the 4th largest metro in the US, no real athletic strengths

SMU: Private school, 6th largest alumni in the state of Texas, carries 1980's NCAA scandal stigma, excellent academics, no real athletic strengths

Memphis: Deep in SEC territory, good basketball, commuter school image

Tulane: Excellent academics, few athletic strengths

Is the battle to remove Wake and/or NC State worth any of these targets? If gaining Notre Dame was a near certainty, yes. For the others, not really worth it. If for just cutting the ACC revenue pie by one or two fewer schools....?

 

[FfldCntyFan]

Bud, can I ask what board is your home board?

 

[billybud]

Sure.

My board with the most posts and my longest tenure (12 years) is WVU Scout. If you have homes, this would be my second home.

The board that I now call my home board is the Warchant Premium board...although I have only been on for 6 years.

When I was an employee at FSU (and considered a confidential employee), I did not post on an FSU board.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

Is it the WVU board or the FSU board that is questioning Wake's value?

It is one thing if an outsider is claiming that a founding member of a conference doesn't really belong there. It is anothing thing entirely if a later addition (who likley needed support from that member for entrance into the conference) is the one questioning whether the founding member should be allowed to remain.

I realize that these are fans of the schools, not the leadership of the schools that are discussing this but still, the thought process that a school that started the conference may be forced out primarily due to later additions (an issue where I fully understood the Catholic members of the old BE and felt that the football membership should have left in aggregate) can be viewed as quite underhanded.

 

[billybud]

It is FSU fans canoodling about the conference...

Wake has always been an outlier...an original founding member, but a very small school (about 5,000 undergrad enrollment) in an increasingly large school environment.

Some fans feel that there should be some reconfiguring of the conference to deal with the fact that it is so dense in North Carolina. Wake seems to be the one school that is mentioned to jettison.

Won't happen...but fans canoodle like they do on this board.

 

[billybud]

Other samples of posts:

...I think the interesting question here is if Wake would meet the criteria for consideration as an addition to the conference, I think probably not, but they're legacy so I doubt anything would happen to them.

...they should be dropped from the ACC. The conference could use a larger school that is not in NC in the worst way. Adding Cuse and Pitt was not good for football. I think one more solid football program and I would be very content with the ACC. Swap them for WV and call it a day. Even Cinci or Uconn would be better for the ACC...
Everyone becomes a bleeding heart at these thoughts but let me remind you that Wake has 3,000 undergrad.. and most dont care about football.

...They are not going and we're not leaving.

....The only way that Wake - or any other school - gets "removed" from a power conference is if all 5 decide to make uniform rules of student size, stadium size and attendance.

NCAA was moving in that direction a few years ago, but never heard where it went. There is no appetite for it.

...I think the ACC should consider making minimum requirements for its members.
One of those requirements should be the combined average home attendance of football and basketball at 50,000.

It's pathetic to be in a power league if you can not average that many fans in the two money generating sports.

....for those saying wake adds nothing, got get a checkup as you've seriously lost it
not everything is football related in this world.

 

[UCFBfan]

It's interesting that fans of schools within a P5 conference would want to jettison a founding member. Then again, FSU fans only care about football, hence their push for Louisville, so it's not surprising. It's interesting to wonder what might be if these P5 do gain some autonomy and the conferences face the ability to somewhat reconfigure with the non-P5 schools. For example, the ACC might consider dropping a Wake for all the reasons listed above for a UConn. Interesting but mostly a pipe dream.....

 

[Irishfan]

Other samples of posts:

...I think the interesting question here is if Wake would meet the criteria for consideration as an addition to the conference, I think probably not, but they're legacy so I doubt anything would happen to them.

...they should be dropped from the ACC. The conference could use a larger school that is not in NC in the worst way. Adding Cuse and Pitt was not good for football. I think one more solid football program and I would be very content with the ACC. Swap them for WV and call it a day. Even Cinci or Uconn would be better for the ACC...
Everyone becomes a bleeding heart at these thoughts but let me remind you that Wake has 3,000 undergrad.. and most dont care about football.

...They are not going and we're not leaving.

....The only way that Wake - or any other school - gets "removed" from a power conference is if all 5 decide to make uniform rules of student size, stadium size and attendance.

NCAA was moving in that direction a few years ago, but never heard where it went. There is no appetite for it.

...I think the ACC should consider making minimum requirements for its members.
One of those requirements should be the combined average home attendance of football and basketball at 50,000.

It's pathetic to be in a power league if you can not average that many fans in the two money generating sports.

....for those saying wake adds nothing, got get a checkup as you've seriously lost it
not everything is football related in this world.

Would UConn qualify on the combined football/basketball attendance requirement of 50,000 ?