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Message: [QUOTE="auror, post: 3860920, member: 1329"] Yes, 5-out maximizes spacing [I]near the hoop, not on the perimeter. [/I]By not having a (or two!) permanent fixture(s) near the basket clogging the paint, you're free to drive, flash, cut, back cut, etc. with more success, There are more players near the perimeter, but the goal of 5-out is not necessarily to shoot 3's (you just need 5 3 point shooters to make the opponent respect their gravity). Once you beat the first level of defense, whether by dribble penetration, a cut, or a roll/slip on a PnR, then you have a more or less free run to the hoop. At rim attempts are more effective when you play 5-out, and they are the most valuable shots in basketball. Our game against St. John's showed this. The rim protection from the opponent is just not there if you're dragging everyone away from the hoop. Or if it is, then a player is left for a wide open 3 and puts the opponent into a deadly rotation. A wide open 3 is the next best shot in basketball. So the offense puts you into a position to get either of the two best shots in basketball. At rim attempts are less valuable in 2 big lineups because there's so much more attention at the rim. Post ups in regular offenses are not all that great of a shot, except with transcendent offensive players. Bigs tend to travel or turn the ball over or lose the ball when doubled, etc. There's just a lot more defensive attention concentrated in a smaller area defended by large dudes and that leads to mistakes and contested shots. Our bigs are pretty good, but they're not transcendent by any means. But bigs on the block is certainly a viable strategy if you have an advantage AND your big can hang on the defensive end. The latter is usually the problem for us when we play against opponents with small lineups, and also having Whaley at the 4 not really doing anything on offense. 5-out doesn't forego offensive rebounding necessarily; Nova was outrebounding us on the offensive glass for most of the game until we got desperate at the end. The opposing team being spread out means there are creases that you can be first to the ball on long rebounds, etc. The corner transition D thing is overblown if you have good communication and buy-in. I mentioned in my last comment about how good Nova's transition D was this game. Where we agree: Bad 5-out offense is still bad offense. Passing the ball around the perimeter with no movement or cutting is still bad offense even if you have the right 5-out personnel. Just like doing the same against a zone is bad. You can defend 5-out a little easier if you have an incredibly mobile, yet still dominant defensive big man who can stay on his man on the perimeter but still recover to defend the paint. But there are like 4 of them in the world (AD, Bam, Giannis, and Draymond). The Heat having Bam certainly helped them against the Bucks in that regard. Whaley is pretty good, but he's not quite quick or long enough to fulfill that role. Where we also agree: playing 5-out when you don't have the personnel is not ideal. You need 5 playmakers and 5 shooters to have the best version. I wish Jackson could shoot consistently and I wish Whaley could either playmake more or shoot more readily. But we don't have that, which is why we don't actually use 5 out that much. But Villanova does and they're really good. Which is why calling 5-out a bad offense regardless of personnel when you mean that some teams that run 5-out don't run it very well or shouldn't run it is disingenuous. And praising Villanova consistently shows that incongruity. [/QUOTE]

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