Things overheard at a high school BB game

[Plebe]

At halftime, the heavily favored Duncanville Pantherettes held a slim 3-point lead over the upstart Lewisville Lady Farmers in the 2nd round of the state playoffs.

A gentleman of a certain age, from what I'll call the Fred Sanford section of the bleachers, hollers to his cohort about 25 feet away:

"Curtis! I need you to settle an argument for me. That time we lost to Plano, was that here in this gym?" [The teams were playing in a neutral gym in Dallas.]​

His cohort, also of a certain age, but from the Hank Hill/Dale Gribble section of the bleachers, shrugs his shoulders:

"I'm not sure. I can't remember."​

​

"That was the game where I got arrested. That's why I remember it! Anyway this game feels exactly like that one. We can't hit a shot. ..."​

​

 

[Puppy Love]

Lady Farmers vs Pantherettes...this is why I could never live in Texas.

 

[meyers7]

Lady Farmers vs Pantherettes...this is why I could never live in Texas.

Hmmmm, jobs, job locations, weather, taxes, family location, schools, churches, housing market, health care, geez, there are a lot of things that could make it or break it for living in Texas. Not sure HS girls BB team names would ever enter into my thinking.

I guess besides TX, you're not gonna be able to live in CA, NY, AK, IL, KY, TN, AR, IA, OH, MT, MN, WI, NC, OR, CO, PA, NE, MS, SD, AL, CT, ID, WY, WA, HI, MI, ND, WV, SC, MO, NM, MA.

 

[TheFarmFan]

Hmmmm, jobs, job locations, weather, taxes, family location, schools, churches, housing market, health care, geez, there are a lot of things that could make it or break it for living in Texas. Not sure HS girls BB team names would ever enter into my thinking.

I guess besides TX, you're not gonna be able to live in CA, NY, AK, IL, KY, TN, AR, IA, OH, MT, MN, WI, NC, OR, CO, PA, NE, MS, SD, AL, CT, ID, WY, WA, HI, MI, ND, WV, SC, MO, NM, MA.

In the many years I've lived on the WBest Coast, I can't recall ever seeing feminizing modifiers appended to the mascots/team names of girls sports teams such as "the Lady X" or the "ettes." I believe what @Puppy Love was referring to was that it indicates something about what the culture thinks is the default category of athletes (boys) and the atypical non-default ones who warrant a signifier (girls), and presumably perhaps deeper notions about gender norms/roles/etc.

Whether that's a reasonable dealbreaker to you, I do think that approach is rare outside the South and its neighbors.

Also: anyone who's seen high-level high school girls soccer or water polo (dominant sports out West) would be hard-pressed to call them "ladies." Violent brutalizers is perhaps more apt!

 

[meyers7]

In the many years I've lived on the WBest Coast, I can't recall ever seeing feminizing modifiers appended to the mascots/team names of girls sports teams such as "the Lady X" or the "ettes."

OR - Burnt River Lady Bulls, Chiloquin Queens, Grant Pass Lady Cavers
CA - Dorsey Donnas
WA - Kelso Lassies, Pateros Nannies, R.A. Long Lumberjills, Wishcah Valley Loggerettes

You need to get out more.

I believe what @Puppy Love was referring to was that it indicates something about what the culture thinks is the default category of athletes (boys) and the atypical non-default ones who warrant a signifier (girls), and presumably perhaps deeper notions about gender norms/roles/etc.

I'm sure. Just letting him/her know it's not confined to TX. And a silly reason to dismiss a whole state.

Whether that's a reasonable dealbreaker to you, I do think that approach is rare outside the South and its neighbors.

As you can see from the list, you would be wrong.

In general it is rare, but no more rare in some northern states than in some southern states. IL, IA, WI, OH all had multiple teams, while FL had none.

 

[TheFarmFan]

OR - Burnt River Lady Bulls, Chiloquin Queens, Grant Pass Lady Cavers
CA - Dorsey Donnas
WA - Kelso Lassies, Pateros Nannies, R.A. Long Lumberjills, Wishcah Valley Loggerettes

You need to get out more.

Touche. I'm guessing you've never been to Kelso or Grants Pass if you think those are places to "get out" to.

But the funny thing is that most of your examples aren't feminizing modifiers, they are ones where the underlying nouns are inherently gendered. For instance, a "Don" is a male honorific, so "Donna" is a necessarily gendered analog to refer to a female Don. Same is true for Kings/Queens, Lad/Lassie, Billygoats/Nannies, and Lumberjacks/Lumberjills. And since a Bull is a male member of the taurus genus, a Lady Bull is a pretty funny contradiction in terms -- no such thing exists in nature, and yet I assume they didn't want their women's team to be referred to as the "Cows"!

By contrast, there is absolutely nothing intrinsically gendered about a Panther, and so no need to create the awkward gendered neologism "Pantherette." Lady Farmer is similarly hilarious, unless we think farmers were all historically celibate men.

 

[azfan]

This is interesting. Kind of a fun discussion to follow. So I follow the NAU women's basketball team. I on occasion refer to them as the Lady Lumberjacks or Lady Jacks. Maybe they should be the LumberJills?

 

[Plebe]

As a language geek and basketball geek, this thread is nirvana for me
Thank you to @TheFarmFan and @meyers7

Another anachronistic element to the aforementioned mascots is that Lewisville, which surely started as a farming community, has now been swallowed whole as a suburb of DFW. I'm willing to bet at this point that not a single farmer lives in their attendance zone.

This is interesting. Kind of a fun discussion to follow. So I follow the NAU women's basketball team. I on occasion refer to them as the Lady Lumberjacks or Lady Jacks. Maybe they should be the LumberJills?

The Stephen F. Austin women's teams are in fact the Ladyjacks.

 

[Puppy Love]

Hmmmm, jobs, job locations, weather, taxes, family location, schools, churches, housing market, health care, geez, there are a lot of things that could make it or break it for living in Texas. Not sure HS girls BB team names would ever enter into my thinking.

I guess besides TX, you're not gonna be able to live in CA, NY, AK, IL, KY, TN, AR, IA, OH, MT, MN, WI, NC, OR, CO, PA, NE, MS, SD, AL, CT, ID, WY, WA, HI, MI, ND, WV, SC, MO, NM, MA.

My sister lives in Texas, and I’ve been there many times. Austin and San Antonio are fabulous. I very much enjoyed South Padre. Even though I know it is something of a stereotype and I’m sure there are plenty of enlightened people in Texas, the whole ”Lady-ette” terminology is demeaning.

 

[Puppy Love]

Touche. I'm guessing you've never been to Kelso or Grants Pass if you think those are places to "get out" to.

But the funny thing is that most of your examples aren't feminizing modifiers, they are ones where the underlying nouns are inherently gendered. For instance, a "Don" is a male honorific, so "Donna" is a necessarily gendered analog to refer to a female Don. Same is true for Kings/Queens, Lad/Lassie, Billygoats/Nannies, and Lumberjacks/Lumberjills. And since a Bull is a male member of the taurus genus, a Lady Bull is a pretty funny contradiction in terms -- no such thing exists in nature, and yet I assume they didn't want their women's team to be referred to as the "Cows"!

By contrast, there is absolutely nothing intrinsically gendered about a Panther, and so no need to create the awkward gendered neologism "Pantherette." Lady Farmer is similarly hilarious, unless we think farmers were all historically celibate men.

Thank you for saying this much more eloquently than I would have.

 

[nwhoopfan]

I haven't seen it lately, but sometimes USC women's sports teams have been referred to as the Women of Troy rather than Trojans.

 

[pacific 44]

You mean the name of the team i've been rooting for these last 25 years aren't the sleddogettes?

 

[Plebe]

Okay back to basketball.

This clip shows the ending of a 2nd round game between Irving MacArthur (with Baylor signees Sarah Andrews and Hannah Gusters) and South Grand Prairie, ranked 7th in the state.

Gotta love scenes like this.

 

[meyers7]

Touche. I'm guessing you've never been to Kelso or Grants Pass if you think those are places to "get out" to.

True I have not been to Kelso or Grants Pass. But I can understand, having been "through" many towns in rural IL where there was no "get out" to get out to.

But the funny thing is that most of your examples aren't feminizing modifiers, they are ones where the underlying nouns are inherently gendered. For instance, a "Don" is a male honorific, so "Donna" is a necessarily gendered analog to refer to a female Don. Same is true for Kings/Queens, Lad/Lassie, Billygoats/Nannies, and Lumberjacks/Lumberjills. And since a Bull is a male member of the taurus genus, a Lady Bull is a pretty funny contradiction in terms -- no such thing exists in nature, and yet I assume they didn't want their women's team to be referred to as the "Cows"!

Either way they are giving a female name, as opposed to just using the given name. And I do believe South Park Elementary does use "Cows" for both their male and female teams.

By contrast, there is absolutely nothing intrinsically gendered about a Panther, and so no need to create the awkward gendered neologism "Pantherette." Lady Farmer is similarly hilarious, unless we think farmers were all historically celibate men.

Try convincing Chadwick Boseman and Michael B. Jordan of that.

 

[meyers7]

I haven't seen it lately, but sometimes USC women's sports teams have been referred to as the Women of Troy rather than Trojans.

I believe that is their actual nickname.

 

[meyers7]

My sister lives in Texas, and I’ve been there many times. Austin and San Antonio are fabulous. I very much enjoyed South Padre. Even though I know it is something of a stereotype and I’m sure there are plenty of enlightened people in Texas, the whole ”Lady-ette” terminology is demeaning.

I can see that. But I don't think everyone feels that way (obviously). AND more to the point, I don't think besides yourself, there would be more than a dozen or so people who who base their residence on what High School's name their girls basketball teams.

 

[nwhoopfan]

True I have not been to Kelso or Grants Pass. But I can understand, having been "through" many towns in rural IL where there was no "get out" to get out to.

Hey, I've been to both. Do I get a prize? They are pretty much just places you drive past on your way up or down I-5, but Grants Pass is close to Ashland which has a fairly famous annual Shakespeare Festival, so that could count as a get out to kind of happening.

 

[cockhrnleghrn]

My sister lives in Texas, and I’ve been there many times. Austin and San Antonio are fabulous. I very much enjoyed South Padre. Even though I know it is something of a stereotype and I’m sure there are plenty of enlightened people in Texas, the whole ”Lady-ette” terminology is demeaning.

I agree.