The Real Problem - Recruiting, A Walk Down Memory Lane

[rich1122]

We are in a real bind today. Plenty of blame to go on coaches, AD etc. But, look what happened to this senior class and junior class. The 2009 and 2010 classes have very few survivors. They should be our studs today. Instead so many are not here or never even showed up. Not saying that bad coaching did not contribute ,just saying that it seems that we lost an inordinate amount of kids in these classes.

2009 losses: Difton, Lang, Aiken, Box, Kenney, Brandon, Lopes, Osieki, Generett, Keensen Chambers??, Kinnard 11/21 loss (4) 3-star kids gone

2010 losses: Hansson, Josh Alexander???, Opoku, Jonathan Louis, Jacob Ruby???, Tebucky Jones, St. Louis 7/22 (3) 3-star kids gone.

18/ 43 gone and 7 (3)-star kids just disappear.

If you count Shoemate and McCummings as busts 3-star and 4-star, and Robbie Frye and Endres leaving the team then you can understand why we have to just continue to play catch up with everybody else. 2011 2012, we lose very few kids and most are playing now.

It just seems that there was too much attrition to put together what should be veteran teams today. RE left no D1 QB either on roster or in the wings.

http://recruiting.scout.com/a.z?s=73&p=9&c=8&toinid=702&yr=2010

 

[UConnSportsGuy]

RE left no D1 QB either on roster or in the wings.

One could argue that RE didn't have a D1 QB on the roster even when he was here (with DanO the lone exception).

 

[freescooter]

You make an interesting point, but I think you don't consider a couple of things. First and foremost, is that when you have a coaching change, you always lose some players, either they don't "fit" the new coach's system or they don't get along with/fit the new new approach. And I think it is mostly underclassmen who tend to go since they have more time to fit into a new program. That, in part, contributed to Warde's hesitancy to fire Pasqualoni after last season. Then you always have some guys who wash out and some who get hurt and never really play. It was really the combination that most teams go through when they change coaches, and a big reason teams don't like to do it too often and why they like, if things are successful to promote from within. Promoting the DC of a successful team allows you to minimize those changes AND keep most of your recruits.

As to the quarterback situation, I think that, too was really influenced by 2 factors. Edsall was looking for a mobile quarterback who could carry the football as well as throw it. When P came, he went to a pro-style, drop back passer type which made both Box and Nebrich mis-fits since they were more in the mold of Maryland's current guy not straight drop-back types. Endres' problems really hurt us in 2011, too since he was really supposed to be the bridge. In the Edsall succession plan, Endres, who was pretty solid would have played in 2011 followed by redshirt frosh Nebrich in 2012-15. Box or a JUCO backup could have bridged 2011, too and you had time to recruit and develop the next guy as well. To me the next coach's quarterback preferences could be interesting and we could well go through this all over again if the next coach is a mobile quarterback type.

 

[Jimmy Serrano]

Jeezus Silver covered this like 3 weeks ago.

 

[metsfan2323]

Any coach who interviews and claims they need a mobile QB for their "system" should not even be considered. We need a coach who can adapt his system to fit the talent like Edsall did going from Orlovsky to Lorenzen.

One of P's biggest failures was his rigid and stubborn belief that he had to implement a system (pro-style) to be successful.

If Warde hires a guy who can't work with Boyle's talent Warde should be fired. I highly doubt that would happen.

 

[freescooter]

metsfan,
I think its more a preference and where he goes over time, who and what kind of quarterback he recruits going forward and how the new guys fit his system. Not saying he won't work with Boyle, just that a long term plan may go in a different direction and Boyle may or may not be the right fit. After all, Edsall replaced an all conference quarterback at Maryland when he got there, to cite one example.

And while he shows some skills, I am sorry to say that the jury is still out on Boyle. The football world is full of 'can't miss" recruits who never really reach their full potential. Go back and read what people posted about Frazer when he first decided to come to UConn, then look at what they said mid-way through 2010 when he had been replaced by Mike Box. And he was a 4 star recruit. For that matter, go back and read what people said about DJ Hernandez when he won the starting job. Though admittedly much of that was local hype...I'm not saying Boyle won't eventually be a good quarterback, just that you can't base who the coach will be based on what he might or might not do with Boyle. That would be foolish.

 

[metsfan2323]

you can't base who the coach will be based on what he might or might not do with Boyle. That would be foolish.

Sure you can, any coach who can't work with Boyle should not even be considered. I'm not really worried about it because I doubt that would happen.

Forget about Boyle, I just have no respect for any coaches who can't adapt their system to fit the talent on the team, to me that is a major warning sign (of a bad coach). We just went through that with P.

The system implemented should maximize the performance of the talent on the roster. Period.

 

[Carl Spackler]

Sure you can, any coach who can't work with Boyle should not even be considered. I'm not really worried about it because I doubt that would happen.

Forget about Boyle, I just have no respect for any coaches who can't adapt their system to fit the talent on the team, to me that is a major warning sign (of a bad coach). We just went through that with P.

The system implemented should maximize the performance of the talent on the roster. Period.

I wouldn't be so harsh with your judgement on coaching styles. The guy who the Super Bowl trophy is named after, had a system that was so rigid and inflexible that if you did not perform it exactly the way he wanted, you'd get cut, and he was successful by finding players that fit his system.

Professional football is a lot different than college football though. But just sayin......

I'm looking for a coach that is younger (early 40s or so ideal) with successful previous head coaching experience at the intercollegiate level, and a detailed understanding of recruiting the Regions: Ohio, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Maryland, Virginia, Delaware, New York and the New England States.

I really don't give a hoot about what kinds of systems they prefer - success at UCONN is going to be about the ability to annually recruit enough athletes with the speed and ability to compete at division 1A.

 

[metsfan2323]

I wouldn't be so harsh with your judgement on coaching styles. The guy who the Super Bowl trophy is named after, had a system that was so rigid and inflexible that if you did not perform it exactly the way he wanted, you'd get cut, and he was successful by finding players that fit his system.

Professional football is a lot different than college football though. But just sayin......

I'm looking for a coach that is younger (early 40s or so ideal) with successful previous head coaching experience at the intercollegiate level, and a detailed understanding of recruiting the Regions: Ohio, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Maryland, Virginia, Delaware, New York and the New England States.

I really don't give a hoot about what kinds of systems they prefer - success at UCONN is going to be about the ability to annually recruit enough athletes with the speed and ability to compete at division 1A.

Don Shula went to the Super Bowl playing one system with David Woodley and a different system with Dan Marino.

Randy Edsall won with Orlovsky, Lorenzen, Endres and Frazer and probably would have figured out a way to win with Nebrich.

Moorhead is running a different offense with Nebrich than he did with Frazer and Endres.

P and DeLeone are sitting at home because they couldn't find players who fit their stupid system.

 

[Carl Spackler]

Don Shula went to the Super Bowl playing one system with David Woodley and a different system with Dan Marino.

Randy Edsall won with Orlovsky, Lorenzen, Endres and Frazer and probably would have figured out a way to win with Nebrich.

Moorhead is running a different offense with Nebrich than he did with Frazer and Endres.

P and DeLeone are sitting at home because they couldn't find players who fit their stupid system.

I'm not arguing with you, I'm just pointing out that being a systems coach vs. a player's coach,.....both can be successful, so it' probably not a good idea to be so dead set against one way or the other.

I personally don't care which kind of coach we get moving forward, because the common theme for both types of coaches to be successful, is finding players that fit. Bill Parcells was one of the innovators, if not THE innovator of the 2-gap control 3-4 front defense. It was designed because Lawrence Taylor kept screwing up in the defensive structure that he had before that. Taylor was making incredible plays, sacking QB's, creating fumbles - but had he not made those plays, the entire defense was breaking down behind him, because he wasn't doing what he was supposed to do - so Parcells (and Belichick - his D-Coordinator) came up with a 2 gap control front in a 3-4 defense. The hardest part of making this defense work, is not finding a playmaker at linebacker like Taylor was (or Demarcus Ware that he drafted at Dallas).....but finding defensive ends that could play at the line of scrimmage as was necessary.

Parcells went to Dallas, and didn't have anywhere near the personnel on Defense that he needed to run his scheme he wanted. He adjusted his plan to run a 4-3 defense. I think that his most successful year in Dallas, came running a 4-3 defense, which was entirely against his football structure.

Yes - adapting to your personnel is most definitely a trait of very successful coaches.

The ability to successfully recruit for the level we want to be at - and that is top 25 1A football - is priority #1 for the next coach though. IF that means recruiting for a strict system, that's fine with me - as long as they can recruit for it.

The future of this season, is in the current players and coach's hands. The future of the program, is in the administration, AD's, hands - with the next hire. It's got to be all about recruiting, or we are in trouble.

 

[ZooCougar]

Oh and their system sucked too.

What's crazy is the Randy Edsall effect at Maryland was akin to going on suspensionand losing lots of scholarships, the sheer volume of players that left in the two years after he arrived was staggering.

And in year three he is on the cusp of bowl eligibility and Maryland still beat us like a drum.

The reason why I favor Ambrose is that I think it takes a certain philosophy to win here. Ambrose and Moorhead would do just that.

No shortcuts, just hard work and exploiting every drop of talent and ability that we have on the roster.

And... I think Ambrose and Moorhead would fare well in getting Boyle to be the very best he can be.

There are UConn guys who are successful all over the place that are no longer at UConn.

Maybe Warde just needs to get the band back together so to speak. Anything less than domination of the AAC is not enough in my opinion.

 

[freescooter]

Sure you can, any coach who can't work with Boyle should not even be considered. I'm not really worried about it because I doubt that would happen.

Forget about Boyle, I just have no respect for any coaches who can't adapt their system to fit the talent on the team, to me that is a major warning sign (of a bad coach). We just went through that with P.

The system implemented should maximize the performance of the talent on the roster. Period.

I don't disagree with the last sentence, and I had a huge problem with P on that score. On the other hand, the current system hasn't worked very well so far. Would you not accept Addazzio had he been available? Or Brady Hoke? Those guys both wanted certain types of quarterbacks. Heck, Addazzio essentially told Boyle to go away. As i said it is about movement in a direction. Most competent coaches won't throw out the whole, though some have done so and been effective in the long run. Given our experience the past 3 seasons, if someone came along and said I'm going to scrap the pro style offense for one similar to Boise's, and he shows he can do it, I'm not sure I'd object.

 

[freescooter]

Oh and their system sucked too.

What's crazy is the Randy Edsall effect at Maryland was akin to going on suspensionand losing lots of scholarships, the sheer volume of players that left in the two years after he arrived was staggering.

And in year three he is on the cusp of bowl eligibility and Maryland still beat us like a drum.

The reason why I favor Ambrose is that I think it takes a certain philosophy to win here. Ambrose and Moorhead would do just that.

No shortcuts, just hard work and exploiting every drop of talent and ability that we have on the roster.

And... I think Ambrose and Moorhead would fare well in getting Boyle to be the very best he can be.

There are UConn guys who are successful all over the place that are no longer at UConn.

Maybe Warde just needs to get the band back together so to speak. Anything less than domination of the AAC is not enough in my opinion.

I generally agree with this outlook though I'm not convinced that Moorehead is the guy, I do thin Ambrose deserves at least a look. Again I prefer Lembo of Ball State because I think he fits that mold and brings 1A head coaching experience. He has been successful in a place where frankly only pretty good head coaches have succeeded. But I think he would get the concept, so to speak, of squeezing every drop of talent from what you have rather than dreaming of some prototypical talented guy. For all the complaining, Edsall got that. I think Ambrose does. I worry about 1AA coaches and I would be especially worried about Moorehead, not because he isn't a good coach. Just because in some ways he hit the lottery at Fordham. He essentially has an A-10 team playing a Patriot League schedule in terms of scholarships. No other Pat league team could have landed the transfers he did because no other Pat League team had 60 scholarships to play with. They had 10 this year for the first time.

 

[B1GEast]

It all starts with the coach, he puts the system in place and then recruits to his systems needs, stars be damned, look at Boise St. If Boyle doesn't fit the coach's system and he can't adapt, too bad.

There's very little statistical differences between 2 and 4 star recruits other than who's recruiting them.

The number 1 priority is to graduate kids, the number 2 goal is to win. We're not in the SEC where this priority is reversed.

Bill Snyder is 74 years old, I'd take him over some young up and comer any day. It's not about age either.

 

[ZooCougar]

I generally agree with this outlook though I'm not convinced that Moorehead is the guy, I do thin Ambrose deserves at least a look. Again I prefer Lembo of Ball State because I think he fits that mold and brings 1A head coaching experience. He has been successful in a place where frankly only pretty good head coaches have succeeded. But I think he would get the concept, so to speak, of squeezing every drop of talent from what you have rather than dreaming of some prototypical talented guy. For all the complaining, Edsall got that. I think Ambrose does. I worry about 1AA coaches and I would be especially worried about Moorehead, not because he isn't a good coach. Just because in some ways he hit the lottery at Fordham. He essentially has an A-10 team playing a Patriot League schedule in terms of scholarships. No other Pat league team could have landed the transfers he did because no other Pat League team had 60 scholarships to play with. They had 10 this year for the first time.

Jim Harbaugh went from non scholarship San Diego to Stanford.

Jim Tressel went from Youngstown State to Ohio State.

I say look at the man and not the job. Ambrose and Moorhead have coordinator experience at this level. Ambrose specifically took a doormat and made them into a CAA contender.

Maybe I am not thinking big enough, but I tend to favor substance over splash.

Lembo should be right up there too.

I think Warde will cast a broad net and talk to a great many people including some of our former players.

 

[freescooter]

Jim Harbaugh went from non scholarship San Diego to Stanford.

Jim Tressel went from Youngstown State to Ohio State.

I say look at the man and not the job. Ambrose and Moorhead have coordinator experience at this level. Ambrose specifically took a doormat and made them into a CAA contender.

Maybe I am not thinking big enough, but I tend to favor substance over splash.

Lembo should be right up there too.

I think Warde will cast a broad net and talk to a great many people including some of our former players.

I don't disagree really. Just that I would be cautious in evaluating Moorhead more than the others because of a really unique situation at Fordham. As I said, playing a Patriot League schedule with a CAA team. He has a huge advantage over the rest of the league right now. There are guys who make the jump and guys who don't. The current Virginia coach looks to be one of the guys who didn't, and he was really successful at Richmond.

 

[OHusky]

For some reason I follow Toledo. They play an exciting brand of FB. Their Head Coach Campbell is about 35 and has solid recruiting ties to Ohio and Western PA. Before becoming head coach he was OC at a small school - maybe Grand Valley? Not saying Campbell is the only candidate but I hope he gets a look. And just an FYI, Toledo beat Navy last week.

 

[freescooter]

For some reason I follow Toledo. They play an exciting brand of FB. Their Head Coach Campbell is about 35 and has solid recruiting ties to Ohio and Western PA. Before becoming head coach he was OC at a small school - maybe Grand Valley? Not saying Campbell is the only candidate but I hope he gets a look. And just an FYI, Toledo beat Navy last week.

Another MAC school. I think that is a great training ground for head coaches because you have lots of competitive programs. Other than Eastern Michigan, its tough to win there without doing a good job and getting everything out of your players. Plus you have a couple of old pros like the guy at Ohio who really know the game so you have to be on your toes. I actually like Campbell, too. But I just think Lembo is a perfect fit for UConn. He could be the football version of Jim Calhoun in terms of his background and where he leaves the program.

 

[rich1122]

Jeezus Silver covered this like 3 weeks ago.

I missed it. Thought that he covered only Offensive Line woes.

(7) 3-star kid in two years and then throw in Shumate and McCummings and Frye.

We are not the type of program that can make that up. We are really suffering today from it. I think that we are as talented as we have been, just seem to be young everywhere - maybe except the OLine.

 

[huskyrob1]

metsfan,
I think its more a preference and where he goes over time, who and what kind of quarterback he recruits going forward and how the new guys fit his system. Not saying he won't work with Boyle, just that a long term plan may go in a different direction and Boyle may or may not be the right fit. After all, Edsall replaced an all conference quarterback at Maryland when he got there, to cite one example.

And while he shows some skills, I am sorry to say that the jury is still out on Boyle. The football world is full of 'can't miss" recruits who never really reach their full potential. Go back and read what people posted about Frazer when he first decided to come to UConn, then look at what they said mid-way through 2010 when he had been replaced by Mike Box. And he was a 4 star recruit. For that matter, go back and read what people said about DJ Hernandez when he won the starting job. Though admittedly much of that was local hype...I'm not saying Boyle won't eventually be a good quarterback, just that you can't base who the coach will be based on what he might or might not do with Boyle. That would be foolish.

Though I hear what you are saying that you can't let a good coach get away just because of Boyle, at the same time he (mets fan) makes a great point and that is hire a coach who is willing to work with what he's got the first couple of years and not be as rigid in his approach to the offense as PP was. When Pasqualoni came in here one of the first things he said was he was not going to make a lot of personnel changes because he didn't want to turn the team upside down, but the few key changes he made ended up doing just that. Pasqualoni lost a great OC in Moorehead because of a stubborn and stupid adherence to an offensive philosophy that he didn't really have the players for, lost Nebrich for the same reason, and lost Jones when Jones Sr saw what was going on. A great coach in my estimation would have immediately sat down with Moorehead and asked him what he thought about the offense etc, not replace him with Weeb Eubanks. I can see a top coach wanting to come in and clean house, but if that's the case and I'm Warde, I'm asking him what kind of defensive and offensive philosophy he thinks is good for UCONN the team and some key individual players.

 

[ruskin]

With all due respect to Moorhead and Ambrose, and the success they're having, think FBS head coaching is very desirable trait in next candidate

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Those two recruiting classes were really horrendous. Pasquoloni's biggest mistake was not going hard at jucos as soon as he got here. Nick Saban couldn't win with what Edsall left behind.

 

[sportsart]

Those two recruiting classes were really horrendous. Pasquoloni's biggest mistake was not going hard at jucos as soon as he got here. Nick Saban couldn't win with what Edsall left behind.

What's good?

 

[TouchdownHusky]

There's very little statistical differences between 2 and 4 star recruits other than who's recruiting them.

Yeah, the 4's get recruited by North Carolina, Texas AM, Iowa, Oregon State, Auburn, Missouri, etc. The 2's by Kent State, Bowling Green, Buffalo, San Diego State . . . oh, and UConn. There's your statistical difference. Do you really think that makes no difference in the performance on the field?

What's the old saying? . . . "You are judged by the company you keep". UConn's not getting (at this juncture), the kid's who are getting offers (in sufficient numbers) from these programs.

 

[ruskin]

I appreciate the research that went into the OP but I'm sure we could go back and see similar attrition in the RE years. Yet he found a way to keep the ship afloat. The 'cupboard bare' defense is a way to deflect the blame from where it belongs - P, GDL, Hathaway, McHugh. THEY were the 'real problem'.

Nick Saban might not be 6-0 with these guys but I'd say he's at least 3-3 if not better