The next dominoes (July 4 edition) | The Boneyard

The next dominoes (July 4 edition)

shizzle787

King Shizzle DCCLXXXVII of the Cesspool
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Over the last few days, a lot has changed to sway opinion regarding the battle between the Big 12 and Pac-12, the B1G taking a flyer on Washington and Oregon, and the ACC GOR maybe not being as iron-clad as previously thought.

I ultimately believe Notre Dame will get its way again. They will remain independent by pitting NBC/independence against FOX/B1G. This will result in a huge pay raise from NBC. I believe they will go from somewhere between $15 million/year to $45 million/year. They are worth it and NBC will give in to keep the property. Between the football money and the 10-15 million from the ACC Olympic sports deal, they will be getting about 75-80% of what the SEC and B1G schools will be getting. They will live with that.

This will result in the SEC and B1G staying put at 16, and the ACC staying at 14.5.

I think the real drama is in the Pac-12/Big 12 battle. The corner four schools are talking to the Big 12 tomorrow but I think they are there for two reasons: 1) as a back-up plan in case UW/OU leave for the B1G and 2) to convince a few schools privately to come to the Pac-12.

In my opinion, the USC/UCLA-less Pac-12 has more brands and is more valuable (according to media reports) than the UT/OU-less Big 12. Therefore, reason suggests (even with amortizing a Big 12 buy-out), schools moving from the Big 12 to the Pac-12 make out in the long run.

Assuming no further movement among the SEC, B1G, ACC, and ND; I project the Pac-12 raids the Big 12 for four schools: Kansas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma State, and Houston. The Pac-12 will give up its academic snobbery a little but will not give up religious snobbery.

This leaves the Big 12 with eight schools: TCU, BYU, Baylor, WVU, K-State, ISU, Cincy, and UCF. With each of the four conferences ahead of them in the pecking order at 14 or more, the Big 12 follows suit and adds USF, SMU, and Memphis from the AAC and Boise State, Colorado State, and San Diego State from the MW.

The Mountain West is up next. I believe their only target will be UTEP to get back to 10 for now....

The American at this point will be down to 11 schools. ESPN at this point tells the schools it is going to drastically cut the TV deal. The schools unilaterally agree to lower the exit fee from $10 million to a much lower number as the TV revenue falls (as several are being courted elsewhere). The second this happens, Navy declares it will go independent again. Shortly afterward, Temple does the same and announces it will go to the Atlantic 10.

Wichita State at this point is moving frantically. As the A-10 has moved to 16, they decide to stay put. The WCC does not want non-religious members. The Big East does not like Wichita State's profile. However, they do find a home. The MW adds WSU as an Olympic-only member to get to 10 Olympic schools.

Tulsa and Rice then contact the MW and are accepted to move to 12 schools in football and basketball.

At this point, 7 schools remain: Tulane, ECU, UTSA, UNT, Charlotte, FAU, UAB. The MW then grabs UNT and UTSA to gain a foothold in Texas and get to 14.

With the changing nature of the CFP and NCAA committee, there is no guarantee any conference but the SEC and B1G will be getting CFP money.

As a result, Tulane, ECU, UAB, and Charlotte work out a deal with ESPN and the Southern whereby the four schools go independent and join the SoCon for Olympic sports. As to why they would disband the AAC and/or not join the Sun Belt: 1) they would have more visibility if they played a smattering of opponents including Temple, Navy, Army, UConn, and UMass as opposed to Sun Belt or C-USA programs. 2) The Southern is a better basketball conference than a rebuilt AAC or Sun Belt.

The Sun Belt and MAC stays put.

C-USA is down to 8 schools at this point. They add FAU to get back to 9.

This would result in the elimination of a conference. Number of schools by conference:

B1G: 16
SEC: 16
ACC: 14 (15-Olympic)
Pac-12: 14
Big 12: 14
MW: 14 (14-Olympic)
SB: 14
MAC: 12
C-USA: 9
Indies: 9
 

SubbaBub

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Maybe I'm reading this wrong (reverse east coast bias), while losing bellcow USC and the LA media market, the P12 could very easily carry on by adding either 2 California teams (option 1), convincing 2-4 (prefer 4) of the B12 western, non-Texas teams to jump ship ($$$ talks), adding 4 (in some combination of CA/MW teams maybe an SMU or BYU)

The B12 is still a very weak, overly Texas centric (P12 applicants need to consider this). In fact the only advantage is the current media distribution (not guaranteed going forward and access to the eastern time zones). I'm not sure that is better. If you aren't a top B1G target, the B12 will always be there for AZ, ASU, CO, and UT. Stamford, Cal, ORST, and WSU are the most vulnerable here as they are not likely B12 targets nor top B1G targets.

So for AZ, ASU, CO, and UT, you decision is based on how many teams the B12 is looking to add to its current 12. If the answer is 2, they that creates maximum pressure for the P12 candidates to make a quick decision. If they are willing to take 4, then there really isn't any and the P12 should look to backfill and move on.

USC and UCLA are national brands but only when they are playoff contenders. They aren't Mich/OHST. Oregon is still a national power (bigger than UCLA and on par with USC). Assuming the B1G is done, the northern schools can carry the league and adding some SoCal teams without much damage and keep access to the CFP and the Rose Bowl. If two more team leave the P12 then it's lifeboat time. ESPN/Fox control the outcome.

The questions for each school are 1, is the Big Ten done, and can they trust the other schools to be committed to the P12 long term.
 

shizzle787

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Maybe I'm reading this wrong (reverse east coast bias), while losing bellcow USC and the LA media market, the P12 could very easily carry on by adding either 2 California teams (option 1), convincing 2-4 (prefer 4) of the B12 western, non-Texas teams to jump ship ($$$ talks), adding 4 (in some combination of CA/MW teams maybe an SMU or BYU)

The B12 is still a very weak, overly Texas centric (P12 applicants need to consider this). In fact the only advantage is the current media distribution (not guaranteed going forward and access to the eastern time zones). I'm not sure that is better. If you aren't a top B1G target, the B12 will always be there for AZ, ASU, CO, and UT. Stamford, Cal, ORST, and WSU are the most vulnerable here as they are not likely B12 targets nor top B1G targets.

So for AZ, ASU, CO, and UT, you decision is based on how many teams the B12 is looking to add to its current 12. If the answer is 2, they that creates maximum pressure for the P12 candidates to make a quick decision. If they are willing to take 4, then there really isn't any and the P12 should look to backfill and move on.

USC and UCLA are national brands but only when they are playoff contenders. They aren't Mich/OHST. Oregon is still a national power (bigger than UCLA and on par with USC). Assuming the B1G is done, the northern schools can carry the league and adding some SoCal teams without much damage and keep access to the CFP and the Rose Bowl. If two more team leave the P12 then it's lifeboat time. ESPN/Fox control the outcome.

The questions for each school are 1, is the Big Ten done, and can they trust the other schools to be committed to the P12 long term.
If ND stays put, I 100% believe the Pac-12 has the upper hand over the Big 12.
 
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If ND stays put, I 100% believe the Pac-12 has the upper hand over the Big 12.



I don't know. Big 12 has a chance here. The remaining schools know Washington, Oregon and Stanford are likely in talks with the B1G. They may not want to wait around for ND.
 

shizzle787

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I don't know. Big 12 has a chance here. The remaining schools know Washington, Oregon and Stanford are likely in talks with the B1G. They may not want to wait around for ND.

According to reports, Washington and Oregon are worth $30 million each, and Stanford is worth $45 million. By my estimate, the new B1G deal will be worth about 1.2 billion. That is $75 million per school. Those three don't move the needle.

On the flip side, the estimate is that the Pac-12 deal (sans UCLA/USC) will be worth $30 million per school per year. The Big 12 is looking at $15-20 million. Even with an $80 million exit fee amortized over 10 years, it makes sense to bolt the Big 12 for the Pac-12. I believe these four schools are going to the meeting to see their options, put feelers out to some of the schools privately about joining the Pac-12, and setting up a back-up plan in case Washington/Oregon/Stanford leave with ND for the B1G. It is also an optics show. They are showing the world they have options.
 
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I don't know. Big 12 has a chance here. The remaining schools know Washington, Oregon and Stanford are likely in talks with the B1G. They may not want to wait around for ND.
They're going to talk and listen to see what the next Big XII deal could be... it could just as easily be to turn to their potential TV and conference partners and let them know what the number to beat is. It's due diligence... but if Oregon and Washington are still in the Pac-12, the stronger lineup for a network is the leftover Pac-12 + the top of the Big XII as outlined in this scenario; vs. a 16 team Big XII. That equation might be different if they weren't splitting the money with Cincy and UCF already... had the Big XII slow-played things, they may well have had the upper hand.... I find it hard to believe the second tier schools of the Pac-12 are racing to pay exit and entrance fees to join, what will look more like a boosted AAC before doing due diligence on the reverse scenario.
 
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I think some of the downstream ripples are unrealistic. The one thing the AAC schools aren't going to do is to agree to reduce the exit fees. Not while the most recent departures have payments outstanding and (in your scenario, at least) three additional teams are due to pay out. There's too much money potentially at play. Teams will stay long-enough to collect those fees, the basketball tournament units, etc; and what would be left is still the top of what was formerly the C-USA class of teams.

IMO the Big XII isn't going to replace 4 departures with 6 teams, particularly when the TV dollars for the available schools will be less: They take Memphis, Boise State, USF & Colorado State to backfill (with UCF, Cincy and WVU and reduced TV money, SDSU is too far away & SMU is a redundant market with TCU).

Mountain West is at 12, they lose two and are at 10. Their dollars are getting less. They may not be too aggressive.. if they do make a move it'll be SMU and Rice to get into Texas media markets.

Assuming the MWC moves, then the AAC has lost 4, they had gone to 14 to try to offer enough inventory to ESPN to keep their TV dollars the same. At this point they're screwed, hell UAB (or Temple) is probably the flagship school at that point. After those shifts are currently at 10 and no one is worth adding. Navy likes it's Texas trips and still would have UNT & UTSA trips, so they probably hang around. If they left then it's probably WKU as a backfill. (Not relevant to football but Wichita State probably leaves and hopes to get back to the MVC or MWC, if they stick around the AAC has an extra partial share to account for reducing whatever remaining payout is left)

C-USA is already in trouble. They're having problems at this point talking FCS schools into upgrading to join them. If WKU were to leave (Navy independence scenario), then they probably have no choice but to invite UMass for football only.

Conferences don't typically die short of catastrophic lack of TV deals, of the currently conferences C-USA is the closest to that, if someone dies, it'll be C-USA with the AAC remnants picking off the best of C-USA.
 

Urcea

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I would anticipate Buffalo might still be interested in making a jump to the AAC if it's still around in any even remotely similar form
 
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I would anticipate Buffalo might still be interested in making a jump to the AAC if it's still around in any even remotely similar form
Buffalo and UConn, Army and Navy and Tulane may be good candidates for the ACC once the dust settles.
 
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Buffalo and UConn, Army and Navy and Tulane may be good candidates for the ACC once the dust settles.
Yikes. You guys think the ACC will get gutted that bad? Where's Temple and UMass?
 
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Buffalo and UConn, Army and Navy and Tulane may be good candidates for the ACC once the dust settles.
If it came to that, there would no longer be an ACC. The ACC has a GOR that keeps the conference intact through 2036. The only way to void that is to disband the conference. So, the amalgamation you’re talking about would be in a completely new conference.
 
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If it came to that, there would no longer be an ACC. The ACC has a GOR that keeps the conference intact through 2036. The only way to void that is to disband the conference. So, the amalgamation you’re talking about would be in a completely new conference.
I wouldn't count on the GOR staying in force for that long. If schools like Virginia, Wake Forest, and maybe Duke were to stay in the ACC, it would be in part because the conference has among its new members AAU members or academically elite colleges. Otherwise, they would likely go for the conferences that pay out more cash.
 
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I wouldn't count on the GOR staying in force for that long. If schools like Virginia, Wake Forest, and maybe Duke were to stay in the ACC, it would be in part because the conference has among its new members AAU members or academically elite colleges. Otherwise, they would likely go for the conferences that pay out more cash.
Yes, that was my point. Once enough schools agree to leave for greener pastures, the conference will be effectively disbanded.
 

SubbaBub

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The ACC isn't going anywhere. At worst they will end up as a combo of the old BE FB confernce plus the rear end of Tobacco Road. UConn would have to accept an invite.
 
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The ACC isn't going anywhere. At worst they will end up as a combo of the old BE FB confernce plus the rear end of Tobacco Road. UConn would have to accept an invite.
They may have to bring the total number of members closer to 20 to make it work as a TV network, That is why they may have to stretch beyond UConn to add more members.
 
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J
The ACC isn't going anywhere. At worst they will end up as a combo of the old BE FB confernce plus the rear end of Tobacco Road. UConn would have to accept an invite.
That remains to be seen. There are 2 ways to get out of the GOR. The first is to disband the conference. The 2nd is through negotiations. Disbanding the conference is the cheapest way out for those who are leaving.

Another factor is whether top tier basketball schools like Duke, Louisville, and Syracuse want to remain with the remnants of the ACC. They just might want a fresh start with other top tier basketball programs like UConn, Kansas, and West Virginia.
 
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J

That remains to be seen. There are 2 ways to get out of the GOR. The first is to disband the conference. The 2nd is through negotiations. Disbanding the conference is the cheapest way out for those who are leaving.

Another factor is whether top tier basketball schools like Duke, Louisville, and Syracuse want to remain with the remnants of the ACC. They just might want a fresh start with other top tier basketball programs like UConn, Kansas, and West Virginia.
I agree that blowing the conference up is the cheapest and easiest way to do it but, I think they need 10 or 11 votes to do that.

There aren't 10 or 11 schools guaranteed landing spots in the new world so while it is the easiest, disbanding is not likely to happen.

Additionally, the negotiation option will provide the left behind schools with millions in exit fees/negotiated buyouts which will be critical to them as they try to figure out how to move forward.

Even if the leftover schools do choose to create a brand new start, they will make sure they get every dime they can (as they should) from the schools that leave. I believe, they need to do that under the ACC name for legal reasons. After they've gotten all their money, maybe they create something brand new.
 

dayooper

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I wonder if the ACC would want any lawsuit go to the discovery phase of a lawsuit? I bet there’s a number that will get a school out of the ACC and that’s being talked about right now. The current playoff contract runs out after the 2025 season.
 
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I wonder if the ACC would want any lawsuit go to the discovery phase of a lawsuit? I bet there’s a number that will get a school out of the ACC and that’s being talked about right now. The current playoff contract runs out after the 2025 season.
I thought about this too.

There were many Boneyarders salivating for discovery when Maryland was suing to leave the ACC wondering what behind the scenes actions were taken by both the ACC and ESPN in blowing up the Big East.

Maybe both ACC & ESPN would prefer that some of those secrets never see the light of day
 

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