The hip check

[Pharos]

When Clark was knocked down in the game against Chicago, the person who knocked her down took four steps to get into position to do the hip checking. I've not seen that anyone has mentioned that. I don't know what came before that. But it shows the push was premeditated. People say things like "...heat of competion," but that doesn't mean anything goes. Old-time coaches would insist on "playing the right way."
My (humorous) idea would be to try excusing players after only four fouls instead of five.

 

[azfan]

When Clark was knocked down in the game against Chicago, the person who knocked her down took four steps to get into position to do the hip checking. I've not seen that anyone has mentioned that. I don't know what came before that. But it shows the push was premeditated. People say things like "...heat of competion," but that doesn't mean anything goes. Old-time coaches would insist on "playing the right way."
My (humorous) idea would be to try excusing players after only four fouls instead of five.

Knowing Carter's history this unfortunate incident should be no surprise to anyone

 

[temery]

I really wish we could fast forward several months and escape all this obsessive nonsense.

 

[Pharos]

 

[hoopsnloops32]

I really wish we could fast forward several months and escape all this obsessive nonsense.

I’m sure it will be the same in a fee months, just a new drama.

 

[Geew1992]

I’m sure it will be the same in a fee months, just a new drama.

It's so overwhelming. If it was anyone but Clark, no one would talk about it. And you can tell who's never watched the W. This has been going on forever.

 

[cancontent]

When Clark was knocked down in the game against Chicago, the person who knocked her down took four steps to get into position to do the hip checking. I've not seen that anyone has mentioned that. I don't know what came before that. But it shows the push was premeditated. People say things like "...heat of competion," but that doesn't mean anything goes. Old-time coaches would insist on "playing the right way."
My (humorous) idea would be to try excusing players after only four fouls instead of five.

This needs to be put into proper context. The hip check is a seperate matter to the physicality of the league.

No one in the media has said the hip check you're referring to was the in the "heat of competition". It's been called out more time than I can count. Playing tough and being physical on the court is what people are referring to as "heat of competition".

I'm like others on this post and can't wait until the season is over and we can get past this. It's unfortunate that those in media who are new to the sport, or experienced media personalities who now want to get involved, aren't doing a better job of differentiating the two and educating new fans.

 

[hoopsnloops32]

It's so overwhelming. If it was anyone but Clark, no one would talk about it. And you can tell who's never watched the W. This has been going on forever.

Also can we pleas look at that clip honestly and admit while it was a dirty play, Clark exaggerated the contact a bit to make sure the refs called it.

 

[Geew1992]

Also can we pleas look at that clip honestly and admit while it was a dirty play, Clark exaggerated the contact a bit to make sure the refs called it.

Yup... she also got an elbow to the face on Carter a few plays before

 

[omshanti]

I say watch the whole game. The game is physical and these are competitive women who are pros. I don’t condone acts of violence. That being said, watch the game! CC is a physical player also. She offers her own ‘cheap shots’ and will continue to do so. She dishes out when she can and then act innocent and surprised. Players will get physical and at times get called for fouls. Not always but sometimes. Carter’s foul was flagrant and it won’t be the last flagrant foul in the league. The media and social media responses are over the top when it comes to Caitlin Clark. It’s getting very old.

 

[baggerbob]

It's so overwhelming. If it was anyone but Clark, no one would talk about it. And you can tell who's never watched the W. This has been going on forever.

If it was against Connecticut, and Thomas, no-one would have said anything.
That's normal in a Connecticut game during the regular season.
That's the way Miller taught them to play.
That is part of the reason Connecticut never has won a championship.
The refs call the games tighter in the playoffs, better refs, and more people watching.
They don't want people thinking this is Professional Wrestling.
I thought when Laimbeer quit coaching the WNBA would clean up the game, but they haven't.
It's a shame because the women, can play the game the right way if the refs let them.

 

[Pharos]

Also can we pleas look at that clip honestly and admit while it was a dirty play, Clark exaggerated the contact a bit to make sure the refs called it.

So the hip-checker is excused by Clark's "exaggerated" reaction? 1) Can't read Clark's mind about that... 2) how many other dimensions of the situation can be useful for excusing the hip check - trash talk... all the other pushing and shoving earlier in the game... disappointment that other calls were not made... frustrations about the closeness of the game... ? and 3) when the hip-checker walked four steps to get in position for the hit, she anticipated that Clark would exaggerated her reaction, and so expected that her hit wouldn't be looked at as a bad thing? And finally, in reaction to other comments, do we want to live in a world where we are free to act as we please if we can cobble together enough excuses? ... you don't understand the game... everybody does it... this has been going on for a long time... their shoes are too tight...

 

[cancontent]

So the hip-checker is excused by Clark's "exaggerated" reaction? 1) Can't read Clark's mind about that... 2) how many other dimensions of the situation can be useful for excusing the hip check - trash talk... all the other pushing and shoving earlier in the game... disappointment that other calls were not made... frustrations about the closeness of the game... ? and 3) when the hip-checker walked four steps to get in position for the hit, she anticipated that Clark would exaggerated her reaction, and so expected that her hit wouldn't be looked at as a bad thing? And finally, in reaction to other comments, do we want to live in a world where we are free to act as we please if we can cobble together enough excuses? ... you don't understand the game... everybody does it... this has been going on for a long time... their shoes are too tight...

My response noted that the hip check is separate from the physicality of the sport. No one is cobbling an excuse. They're laying out the reality that it's a competitive league and that the hip check was uncalled for. Maybe your ire should be directed at the referees who make the calls, however per a report on a different thread, independent observers have noted most calls are in line with their standards.

This "welcome to the league" stuff happens in every league to an extent (NBA, MLB, NHL, NFL). For some reason, it's seen as normal for male sports but it's unseemly for women's all of a sudden which makes absolutely no sense. It still doesn't take away from the fact that most have said the hip check was out of line and should have been handled differently when it actually happened.

 

[BigTenGuy]

My response noted that the hip check is separate from the physicality of the sport.

Rebecca Lobo made the same distinction, labeling the hip check “definitely a dirty play,” and “not a basketball play,” while distinguishing it from the physicality of the sport. Lobo’s line that Carter’s cheap shot “gave a previously toothless argument (that WNBA players are hating on Caitlin Clark) some fangs” is perhaps the best line of the media follow up.

 

[hoopsnloops32]

So the hip-checker is excused by Clark's "exaggerated" reaction? 1) Can't read Clark's mind about that... 2) how many other dimensions of the situation can be useful for excusing the hip check - trash talk... all the other pushing and shoving earlier in the game... disappointment that other calls were not made... frustrations about the closeness of the game... ? and 3) when the hip-checker walked four steps to get in position for the hit, she anticipated that Clark would exaggerated her reaction, and so expected that her hit wouldn't be looked at as a bad thing? And finally, in reaction to other comments, do we want to live in a world where we are free to act as we please if we can cobble together enough excuses? ... you don't understand the game... everybody does it... this has been going on for a long time... their shoes are too tight...

What are you even talking about? I said it was a dirty play that deserved a foul and flagrant but the narrative around it is now too much. People are calling for Carter to be arrested for goodness sake and saying it could have ended Clark’s career. If she wasn’t looking for the call I doubt very much the contact would have even knocked Clark down because she’s looks significantly stronger than Carter.

The hip check broke the rules but it certainly wasn’t worthy of now 3 days of mainstream media coverage and the harassment of Clark’s teammates for not protecting her.

 

[GamecockFam]

What are you even talking about? I said it was a dirty play that deserved a foul and flagrant but the narrative around it is now too much. People are calling for Carter to be arrested for goodness sake and saying it could have ended Clark’s career. If she wasn’t looking for the call I doubt very much the contact would have even knocked Clark down because she’s looks significantly stronger than Carter.

The hip check broke the rules but it certainly wasn’t worthy of now 3 days of mainstream media coverage and the harassment of Clark’s teammates for not protecting her.

Agreed. The penalty was given (though not to everyone's liking) in accordance with WNBA policies. Let's move on.

 

[Pharos]

I'm probably not making myself clear enough. I've been around basketball for 65 years. My dad coached HS BB.
I'm reacting to the two subjects being brought together at all: 1) dirty play, and oh by the way... 2) the game is rough... so...?
Why are the two things being brought together? How does a rough game explain a dirty play. It was a premeditated dirty play. Rebecca said "not a basketball play." I guess what I'm trying to say is that dirty plays are bad. Why mix in any sociology of the game. It's wrong or it isn't? I've not said one thing about consequences. I'm commenting that fuzzy standards can't work. That's the beauty of an "inside the lines" activity.

 

[cancontent]

I'm probably not making myself clear enough. I've been around basketball for 65 years. My dad coached HS BB.
I'm reacting to the two subjects being brought together at all: 1) dirty play, and oh by the way... 2) the game is rough... so...?
Why are the two things being brought together? How does a rough game explain a dirty play. It was a premeditated dirty play. Rebecca said "not a basketball play." I guess what I'm trying to say is that dirty plays are bad. Why mix in any sociology of the game. It's wrong or it isn't? I've not said one thing about consequences. I'm commenting that fuzzy standards can't work. That's the beauty of an "inside the lines" activity.

Your original post didn't come close to what you've outlined here. Had this been your original post, I don't think you would have received the responses you've gotten.

The frustration you feel is similar to a lot of long term fans and posters on this board. The problem/challenge is because of who Clark is and the attention she brings, these things get spun to get people "engagement" which equals dollars and ratings. There's no way getting away from it.

Elle Duncan had a great example. She noted that while fans may get tired of ESPN fawning over certain players and teams (LeBron, Dallas Cowboys, etc.), the network knows it draws viewers. So what do they do? They continue to talk about it. Unfortunately, in my opinion, quite a few have opted for lazy takes because they don't know better or aren't willing to do the work to learn. Others just don't care and want the ratings.

 

[Bigboote]

View attachment 101276

I told her the Acme catapult and anvil were a bad idea.

 

[donalddoowop]

This needs to be put into proper context. The hip check is a seperate matter to the physicality of the league.

No one in the media has said the hip check you're referring to was the in the "heat of competition". It's been called out more time than I can count. Playing tough and being physical on the court is what people are referring to as "heat of competition".

I'm like others on this post and can't wait until the season is over and we can get past this. It's unfortunate that those in media who are new to the sport, or experienced media personalities who now want to get involved, aren't doing a better job of differentiating the two and educating new fans.

Carter said it was in the "heat of competition".

 

[nwhoopfan]

Carter said it was in the "heat of competition".

Do we believe that? Whatever happened the possession before, Chicago had a full possession, then there was a dead ball waiting for the inbound. Carter was not real close to Clark, had to creep up to her to get in range. It looked very deliberate and very premeditated.

 

[cancontent]

Carter said it was in the "heat of competition".

She's not the media, who I was referring to. And per @nwhoopfan, do we take her at her word? Unfortunately her history and temperament don't support that statement.

 

[Kaizen]

Why the Caitlin Clark-Chennedy Carter incident has struck such a chord with the public​

It’s true that Carter’s shoulder check on Clark was not a basketball play. It’s also true that type of competitive physicality happens in basketball, and especially in the WNBA, quite a bit. If things were different, if history were more kind to women’s athletic and professional endeavors, it could have stayed a moment in the season’s timeline. A video to put in the bucket for a rivalry feature.

Instead, it gave fuel to the growing discourse around Clark and the WNBA. The same way leaders have described the rising tide in women’s basketball that resulted in another sold-out crowd watching Clark’s Indiana Fever defeat Carter’s Chicago Sky on Saturday afternoon, the play in question prompted the collision of too many atoms that were already active.

Why the Caitlin Clark-Chennedy Carter incident has struck such a chord with the public

Everybody has an opinion when it comes to a young superstar and the publicity she brings and a blossoming league dealing with rapid growth and the pains that come with it.

sports.yahoo.com

 

[donalddoowop]

Do we believe that? Whatever happened the possession before, Chicago had a full possession, then there was a dead ball waiting for the inbound. Carter was not real close to Clark, had to creep up to her to get in range. It looked very deliberate and very premeditated.

I agree it looked premeditated. Totally unnecessary. I was just responding to a question in another post.

 

[IArick]

It's so overwhelming. If it was anyone but Clark, no one would talk about it. And you can tell who's never watched the W. This has been going on forever.

It's so overwhelming. If it was anyone but Clark, no one would talk about it. And you can tell who's never watched the W. This has been going on forever.

Just because it has been going on forever does it make it right? Bringing new eyes to the game can also point out things that make the product less enjoyable. Older fans have just accepted that the WNBA has to be extremely physical, and not pushing for change in what should be a more free flowing game. Why is it necessary to have players like A'ja Wilson get absolutely batter last night and not getting calls on what are obvious fouls? The Foul where Angel could have been seriously injured and AT was ejected, should be considered a rookies welcome to the league. I know Angle brushed it off but why has that become a norm? Why has the WNBA just accepted that this is the style that they want to promote? I get physicality of the game. There are many times it egregious and should be held in check? People complain about all of the injuries in the WNBA and blame the year long schedule most of them have to play but I guarantee that some of that also due to the extreme physicality of the game.

There are sports where brutality is expected but at least they are in gear that is supposed to help them lessen the effects.

At this point I don't think the WNBA puts out a good product, because of the extreme physicality. This doesn't discount the amazing talent that is and has been in the league. I just feel that the league is doing the players and the fans a complete disservice by allowing this.