The first order of business for the New New Big East

[toppencil]

this is an example of what the apologistas don't get. the stabiltiy issue has very little to do with BCS. The Big East as it was structured was in no danger of losing its BCS bid, regardless of what a bunch of so called experts blathered on ESPN. The problem was exactly what happened. With only 8 members, losing any one puts the whole league's existance in jeopardy. The B-12 lost two and carried on with 9-10. If the ACC loses two, it carries on with 10-12. If the Big East loses two, it is left scambling to get to some reasonable number. Lose 3 like the B-12 and you're done. The opposition to Villanova was driven by the fact that they were not interested in developing a serious program. They wanted to play their home games in an 18500 seat stadium with no expansion plan. They wanted a financial deal that put them at no risk.The worry Syracuse and Pitt had is that by staying in the Big East, it would be they, not UCONN who would be dealing with the whole question of what is next. There is no way to say that a 10 or 12 team all-sports league would have kept them in the fold, but it is clear that the hybrid model failed to keep them, just as it failed ot keep BC, Miami, Virginia Tech before them. It won't keep UCONN or Rutgers or West Virginia or probably Louisville either. What is it they call doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results?

Ok FB tards try again, why have the following schools changed leagues; Texas A&M, Nebraska, Colorado, and Utah. The hybrid model, as you call it has nothing to do with schools moving. It's about schools moving to better conferences for themselves. If the FB tards had formed their own league in 2000, all the schools that left would still have left. Miami moved for geographic reasons, Virginia Tech wanted to be in the ACC for years, BC is insane. Who would Syracuse and Pitt rather play in football, Clemson, Florida State and Miami or UConn, USF and Cincy?

Being part of the Big East or not, the football league was at the bottom of the BCS totem pole. The Big East was formed for basketball; to emulate what the ACC did in basketball. It has been wildly succesful. UConn has benefited enormously. Moving up in football was a big risk; taken by choice. If it doesn't work out, blame the schools that left or yourselves not the basketball schools.

 

[HartbeatHusky]

Ok FB tards try again, why have the following schools changed leagues; Texas A&M, Nebraska, Colorado, and Utah. The hybrid model, as you call it has nothing to do with schools moving. It's about schools moving to better conferences for themselves. If the FB tards had formed their own league in 2000, all the schools that left would still have left. Miami moved for geographic reasons, Virginia Tech wanted to be in the ACC for years, BC is insane. Who would Syracuse and Pitt rather play in football, Clemson, Florida State and Miami or UConn, USF and Cincy?

Being part of the Big East or not, the football league was at the bottom of the BCS totem pole. The Big East was formed for basketball; to emulate what the ACC did in basketball. It has been wildly succesful. UConn has benefited enormously. Moving up in football was a big risk; taken by choice. If it doesn't work out, blame the schools that left or yourselves not the basketball schools.

You miss the fact that UConn moving up has been pretty damn successful. We have had the quickest success of any school that has ever made the jump from FCS to FBS and us having moved up is the only reason why we are even in the conversation for joining the ACC or Big 10 or being part of a core group that merges with the Big 12. Without Football being FBS we would be infinitely more vulnerable. Period. Would you rather our plight being mentioned with Nova, Georgetown, Providence, and DePaul or WVU, Rutgers, and Louisville? That is the only question to ask yourself.

 

[buckley503]

Your post and some others here are about as factual as a tea party flyer

Is this your tryout as a writer for the Daily Show or Letterman? And it clearly destroys your credibility, whether you agree with them or not, but I guess it was a shot at displaying your cunning wit.

 

[toppencil]

Your Chicken Little act is wearing thin.

I'm sorry don't hit me please.

 

[freescooter]

You realize of course that you are using a derrogatory term, one that is no longer used among civil people...but ok. In point of fact, though there is no way of knowing what would have happened if the football schools had formed their own league rather than remained a part of the Big East. It is certainly possible that some would have left. But it is at least as likely, I think more likely, that Georgetown, Villanova St Johns et al would now be competing with the A-10 for talent and coverage, not the ACC. They managed to get the benefits of playing with BCS football schools without the investment those schools made. You're absolutely right about one thing, though. the Big East was formed for basketball. But it is a different era. As I posted before, having the best basketball league in 2011 is like producing the best typewriter. I suppose its nice, but it isn't all that valuable. And in fact, I suspect that Syracuse would far prefer to be playing BC, Pitt,Maryland, West Virginia, Penn State, Rutgers-- largely the teams that it has had long histories with. I doubt they are particularly excited about games with Clemson and NC State. The ACC lets them play a number of long time opponents at least some degree.

 

[Carl Spackler]

The problem, really, is that the big East needed to split before this happened. Now I'm not sure you can put together a league that will work as a basketball league, at least for a while. Much like the aftermath of the last raid, the big East football schools need the basketball ones for stability right now. They did in 2004 as well. What really needed to happen then, was that there needed to be a plan for seperating football from basketball and creating two leagues. The football schools need to be able to make decisions that benefit them in the long run, be it media deals, or additonal members. Who knows whether a seperate league would have kept Pitt and Syracue in the fold. No way to say for sure, but what we do know is that the existing setup has resulted in 5 of the original BE football members leaving for the ACC.

Not entirely true. What they needed in 2003 was the assurance to retain the BCS bid. If that assurance was to be had, the schools would have split. They couldn't get it with only Syracuse, Pittsburgh, Rutgers and West Virginia and UCOnn set to join two years later. The mechanism to add the other teams for 2005 went into effect after that decision.

We're in a different situation right now. We've got TCU lined up for 7 teams. The retention of the BCS bid by a new conference should be in play this time around. last time around it was syracuse that took the point in trying to lead a split, and pulled back when the BCS bid was not assured to the 4 teams and made a big call in staying with loyalty to the conference at the time. I hope somebody is actively pursuing what it takes to retain that BCS status in case of split right now.

Having the catholic basketball schools involved certainly isn't a financial detractor to anything, and losing them certainly puts a big chink in the next broadcasting contract for an all sports conference.

Here's the thing.

Do we want to be part of a basketball oriented conference that is constantly a revolving door for BCS football programs and increasing numbers of basketball teams? the cost of doing so is instability, the loss of natural rivalries, schools leaving the conference, scheduling headaches in all sports with increasing numbers of teams, increased athletic department expenses that the basketball colleges don't incur, and forever looking over our shoulder at the next conference problem, and potential loss of BCS affiliation.

OR:

Do we want to be part of an actual BCS conference.

You could actually run a full fledged, priority straight BCS conference with the basketball only programs attached.

That's not happening with Providence leadership though.

So - need to separate.

 

[Carl Spackler]

You miss the fact that UConn moving up has been pretty damn successful. We have had the quickest success of any school that has ever made the jump from FCS to FBS and us having moved up is the only reason why we are even in the conversation for joining the ACC or Big 10 or being part of a core group that merges with the Big 12. Without Football being FBS we would be infinitely more vulnerable. Period. Would you rather our plight being mentioned with Nova, Georgetown, Providence, and DePaul or WVU, Rutgers, and Louisville? That is the only question to ask yourself.

South Florida is working real hard at taking the point on being the fastest and highest rising football program. That whole top 25 thing. They continue on the path their on, and they'll be looking elsewhere as hard as we are if things don't change.

 

[toppencil]

I think you seriously underestimate the value of BB in the northeast and vastly over estimate what the football schools bring to the table. Try researching the facts about the Big East and money, basketball does pretty well for everyone.

http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebask...32138/big-east-hoops-money-outstrips-football

 

[toppencil]

Your post and some others here are about as factual as a tea party flyer

Is this your tryout as a writer for the Daily Show or Letterman? And it clearly destroys your credibility, whether you agree with them or not, but I guess it was a shot at displaying your cunning wit.

Ouch that hurts.

 

[HartbeatHusky]

South Florida is working real hard at taking the point on being the fastest and highest rising football program. That whole top 25 thing. They continue on the path their on, and they'll be looking elsewhere as hard as we are if things don't change.

UConn and USF have been doing things at a similar pace. However, we have been comptetitive with and beat them numerous times and have had more in conference success and a BCS berth.

 

[HartbeatHusky]

I think you seriously underestimate the value of BB in the northeast and vastly over estimate what the football schools bring to the table. Try researching the facts about the Big East and money, basketball does pretty well for everyone.

http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebask...32138/big-east-hoops-money-outstrips-football

We all know this fact, but how many of the top hoops schools also play football? The football playing schools with a hoops tradition by and large have larger national appeal and land the top recruits over all of the basketball schools with the exceptions being Georgetown and Nova. Even if it is just the Northeast that we need to concern ourselves with (which doesn't make sense when you are trying to have national appeal) national media outlets are not going to pay good money for a hoops only conference so without a BCS/FBS football component the Big East is only 1 step up from the A10. I don't see how that could not be understood by anyone.

 

[toppencil]

We all know this fact, but how many of the top hoops schools also play football? The football playing schools with a hoops tradition by and large have larger national appeal and land the top recruits over all of the basketball schools with the exceptions being Georgetown and Nova. Even if it is just the Northeast that we need to concern ourselves with (which doesn't make sense when you are trying to have national appeal) national media outlets are not going to pay good money for a hoops only conference so without a BCS/FBS football component the Big East is only 1 step up from the A10. I don't see how that could not be understood by anyone.

The situation you describe in BB recruiting is fluid. Recruits go to schools for lots of reasons. Playing for a certain coach is probably the biggest reason. Every school has rebuilding years, good years and bad years. The Big East has been fortunate to have a number of big name coaches stay were they are for awhile. ESPN broadcasting Big East basketball nationally makes it possible for schools to recruit nationally. When Calhoun retires, UConn may struggle to land recruits.

Clearly a BB only league will not bring in the same kind of money but it would do very well given the locations and traditions of the schools. And yes it would be 1 step above the A10 in certain ways. But TV ratings will determine what the networks will pay for BB broadcast rights; the same holds true for everything on TV.

I hope the Big East finds a way to survive with a 12 team football league because it's better for all the schools. But I also think schools jumping to other leagues will happen again because Big East football is number 6 in the ranking of big time football leagues. I don't think creating a new league from the football members will change that dynamic.

 

[weyuo]

UConn's stock will rise once Pasqualoni gets the football program straightened out. Keep in mind he was hired about 2 weeks before National Signing Day so no one should be judging him till next year. Once that happens the team will be more appealing to other conferences. A little patience people. Please!

 

[ConnHuskBask]

The longer this whole thing plays out I just have sinking suspicion that we're going to be in a lot of trouble.

Louisville to the Big12 makes too much sense not to happen, and WV either tags along to the Big12 or makes perfect sense as the SEC's 14th team.
If ESPN is controlling this like we all suspect, all things being relatively equal, the SEC will be 'encouraged' to take a BE team, not an ACC team.

Preparing for the worse:

UConn, Rutgers, Cincy, USF, then pick 4 or 5 out of: Temple, East Carolina, Central Florida, Houston, SMU, Navy, Air Force, Army, UMass, Buffalo, etc. etc.

Then we'll have the basketball onlies as that will be the only marquee property left to promote for the conference.

I hope I'm wrong. I'm just not feeling as optimistic the longer this drags out.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

I asked the question in response: please explain to me why Syracuse, Pittsburgh, Boston College, Miami, Virginia Tech are in the ACC and not Georgetown, Villanova, St. John's, Seton Hall and Providence?

Haven't gotten an answer yet.

It's simple Carl, no other major conference has yet been intelligent enough to realize the value that Nova, Georgetown, St John's et al bring to a conference.