The definition of "better" in sports

[Jaydumo20]

With our upcoming game against a team who boasts a talented lineup and a great coach in Cooley, I think it's a good time to pose a question that has bothered me for some time: what do we really mean when we say someone is "better" in sports? There has been talk about if PC is the better team, many have claimed EC to be a better coach, but then have dialed that back in light of our recent successes.
Does "better" mean "better" only in relation to your more recent performance? Or do we view better as overall "better" based on many factors while treating getting bested by an opponent as the exception rather than the rule.
To move out of basketball, I consider Mike Tyson a better boxer than Buster even after he lost that fight. How do you define better?

 

[husky429]

With our upcoming game against a team who boasts a talented lineup and a great coach in Cooley, I think it's a good time to pose a question that has bothered me for some time: what do we really mean when we say someone is "better" in sports? There has been talk about if PC is the better team, many have claimed EC to be a better coach, but then have dialed that back in light of our recent successes.
Does "better" mean "better" only in relation to your more recent performance? Or do we view better as overall "better" based on many factors while treating getting bested by an opponent as the exception rather than the rule.
To move out of basketball, I consider Mike Tyson a better boxer than Buster even after he lost that fight. How do you define better?

You're overthinking it.

Better team = better team right now, more talented, more skilled, better coached. Better program = better long-term success and trajectory.

Only morons thought PC was better than UConn at either.

 

[Jaydumo20]

@husky429 I agree with you 100% I didn't ever think twice about it. But others have said differently. Maybe they have a different criteria

 

[husky429]

@husky429 I agree with you 100% I didn't ever think twice about it. But others have said differently. Maybe they have a different criteria

There are a lot of people in this board who don't understand basketball at all.

Edit: I should add that includes me too. I could tell you 10 different variations of a horns set off the top of my head or tell you which of our players prefer to shoot off a hop or step, but I genuinely have 0 idea how seeding for the tournament works. It's just jibberish.

 

[Jaydumo20]

There are a lot of people in this board who don't understand basketball at all.

Edit: I should add that includes me too. I could tell you 10 different variations of a horns set off the top of my head or tell you which of our players prefer to shoot off a hop or step, but I genuinely have 0 idea how seeding for the tournament works. It's just jibberish.

I think you are one of the more knowledgeable on here. I have heard that the following coaches are better than Hurley in chat or on board and I'm just waiting for the defense: musselman, Holloway, Cooley, Pikiell among others. I swear, I saw these cited, some multiple times.

 

[polycom]

There are a lot of people in this board who don't understand basketball at all.

Edit: I should add that includes me too. I could tell you 10 different variations of a horns set off the top of my head or tell you which of our players prefer to shoot off a hop or step, but I genuinely have 0 idea how seeding for the tournament works. It's just jibberish.

You are too nice to people around here.

 

[husky429]

I think you are one of the more knowledgeable on here. I have heard that the following coaches are better than Hurley in chat or on board and I'm just waiting for the defense: musselman, Holloway, Cooley, Pikiell among others. I swear, I saw these cited, some multiple times.

"Better" is subjective. If you put Hurley at UCLA, he'd probably be terrible because he left his recruiting grounds and culture (this is what happened to Shaka down south IMO). There are a few really good coaches that probably would look as good as Hurley if they had found jobs close to their connections.

Realistically, I don't think you can say that Holloway or Pikiell is better than Hurley right now.

Oats? Beard? Musselman? Mcdermott? I think you could probably make an argument they are better, but I'm not sure I'd agree with it. McDermott and Musselman are probably a step above Hurley, but they're older and we have to take that into account. What did they look like at 50? There's a bunch of coaches aged 50-55ish that haven't quite done enough to separate themselves from the pack IMO, including Hurley. Hurley has the potential to create that separation with a strong post-season run this year.

Shaka is, IMO, probably the best young coach in the country. Hurley has catching up to do.

Cooley is an interesting one. He's probably a better in-game coach and has a great eye for talent, but overall I don't think you can reasonably say he's a better coach than Hurley.

I think between Cooley, Shaka, Hurley, and McDermott, we're going to have some battles in the Big Esat for the next decade or so.

 

[REB1094]

I prefer the term "built different"

 

[Jaydumo20]

"Better" is subjective. If you put Hurley at UCLA, he'd probably be terrible because he left his recruiting grounds and culture (this is what happened to Shaka down south IMO). There are a few really good coaches that probably would look as good as Hurley if they had found jobs close to their connections.

Realistically, I don't think you can say that Holloway or Pikiell is better than Hurley right now.

Oats? Beard? Musselman? Mcdermott? I think you could probably make an argument they are better, but I'm not sure I'd agree with it. McDermott and Musselman are probably a step above Hurley, but they're older and we have to take that into account. What did they look like at 50? There's a bunch of coaches aged 50-55ish that haven't quite done enough to separate themselves from the pack IMO, including Hurley. Hurley has the potential to create that separation with a strong post-season run this year.

Shaka is, IMO, probably the best young coach in the country. Hurley has catching up to do.

Cooley is an interesting one. He's probably a better in-game coach and has a great eye for talent, but overall I don't think you can reasonably say he's a better coach than Hurley.

I think between Cooley, Shaka, Hurley, and McDermott, we're going to have some battles in the Big Esat for the next decade or so.

Well said. The last is the most important. The big east SHOULD always have 4 or 5 top level coaches- but if one's team bests the other's on any given day we shouldn't start dreaming of the other guy being on a our sideline.

 

[ctchamps]

With our upcoming game against a team who boasts a talented lineup and a great coach in Cooley, I think it's a good time to pose a question that has bothered me for some time: what do we really mean when we say someone is "better" in sports? There has been talk about if PC is the better team, many have claimed EC to be a better coach, but then have dialed that back in light of our recent successes.
Does "better" mean "better" only in relation to your more recent performance? Or do we view better as overall "better" based on many factors while treating getting bested by an opponent as the exception rather than the rule.
To move out of basketball, I consider Mike Tyson a better boxer than Buster even after he lost that fight. How do you define better?

You're overthinking it.

Better team = better team right now, more talented, more skilled, better coached. Better program = better long-term success and trajectory.

Only morons thought PC was better than UConn at either.

You're both overthinking it. When our team loses or doesn't play well some fans make statements that belittle our players, team and/or coaches. It comes from a place of anger. It makes them feel better if they can find someone or something to blame as opposed to evaluating things in an analytical manner.

This season's negative commentary about Hurley and various players is deja vu with what fans would say about JC and past players. Most fanbases with relevant teams have fans who can't handle losing. Point that out to them and you get the obligatory statement "I have higher standards" or You're an apologista".

The analytical amongst us also have high standards, do not like to lose, or watch the team have subpar seasons. And most but not all of this group choose not to cry about it. I would also point out that a fan who can't get control of his/her emotions HATES seeing individuals who can remain composed in threads that are negative about our team. No one likes to have weaknesses/failures exposed even as they need to destroy someone else by exposing their weaknesses/failures. It's a character flaw.

My personal favorite this season has been the anger directed towards Dan and Andre for their behavior that resulted in technicals. Some of the posts could teach Hurley a thing or two on how to lose control.

 

[Husky25]

I have a hard time describing Cooley as a "great" coach.

He's good and maybe very good. Perhaps mine is a higher bar...

 

[polycom]

I have a hard time describing Cooley as a "great" coach.

He's good and maybe very good. Perhaps mine is a higher bar...

Who is a great coach to you? Please don't include legends.

 

[Jaydumo20]

You're both overthinking it. When our team loses or doesn't play well some fans make statements that belittle our players, team and/or coaches. It comes from a place of anger. It makes them feel better if they can find someone or something to blame as opposed to evaluating things in an analytical manner.

This season's negative commentary about Hurley and various players is deja vu with what fans would say about JC and past players. Most fanbases with relevant teams have fans who can't handle losing. Point that out to them and you get the obligatory statement "I have higher standards" or You're an apologista".

The analytical amongst us also have high standards, do not like to lose, or watch the team have subpar seasons. And most but not all of this group choose not to cry about it. I would also point out that a fan who can't get control of his/her emotions HATES seeing individuals who can remain composed in threads that are negative about our team. No one likes to have weaknesses/failures exposed even as they need to destroy someone else by exposing their weaknesses/failures. It's a character flaw.

My personal favorite this season has been the anger directed towards Dan and Andre for their behavior that resulted in technicals. Some of the posts could teach Hurley a thing or two on how to lose control.

This has been my very stance all year. I think we’ve actually parroted each other on some posts. I'm just giving them one last chance to step on up

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

I haven’t heard 1 person trash Andre or DH in a few weeks.

Give it about 50 hours.

 

[ctchamps]

This has been my very stance all year. I think we’ve actually parroted each other on some posts. You hit it perfectly. The main reason for my OP was more to give those people who contended that certain other coaches are better than DH (mainly after L’s ) the chance to defend themselves. I haven’t heard 1 person trash Andre or DH in a few weeks.

And hopefully there won't be a situation in which that happens for the remainder of this season.

I made a generic post in this thread choosing not to target anyone. I only chose to target one individual all season because I felt there might be a modicum of hope that individual might think about how he presented his opinion regarding Andre.

Most of us don't want to be lectured. We've already escaped parenting once when we went through adolescence. Once upon a time in this forum I would approach certain individuals whom I felt were basically reasonable and spend a lot of time offering advice on better or worse approaches to critiquing. They were people who I felt were not overly sensitive because I didn't want to embarrass anyone. I rarely challenged them and I never demeaned them. It allowed for others to observe and get something out of it as well. This forum was still small back then and I felt that it could easily implode if someone didn't try to elevate the group. As it was we lost some good posters in spite of my efforts.

My philosophy is censorship should rarely be employed. Repressing anger and using authority to not let people be heard does not allow someone to realize there could be a better way to go through life and decide if they should begin to work on it. I made it clear I faced the same or similar challenges daily and appreciated, although not always immediately, when someone would help guide me.

It was exhausting work even though it was second nature to me. This forum is now much larger and there is a great nucleus of informative individuals who offer their knowledge to those of us who are less knowledgeable. It is no longer as vulnerable. That plus after decades of mediating and supporting individuals I've reached a point in life that I feel I can just enjoy things and no longer be the adult in the room.

Best advice I can give you is to recognize that for most of us change is difficult. It's easier for us to see the flaws in others and insist they change than to look in the mirror and recognize that we're often asking others to change because we are unwilling or unable to do so ourselves. The best thing you could do, given that you are sensitive and aware of behaviors that are non productive and demeaning is to reduce your sensitivity to it and just be a model in how you post. There are several individuals who do this. Two that come to mind are @Hey Adrien! and @auror.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

Give it about 50 hours.

God I hope not.

 

[Husky25]

Who is a great coach to you? Please don't include legends.

Why do I feeling like you are trying to bait me into naming Dan Hurley? He's not "great" either, JIC anyone needed any clarification. OTOH, just like Cooley, he relatively young and there is still time for them to rise up the ranks?

Be that as it may, there is definitely room between "Very Good" and "Legend," and it should probably include those who have reached the second weekend more than once in 15 years.

Brad Stevens
Shaka Smart
Mark Few
Jim Harrick
Bruce Weber
Thad Matta
Kelvin Sampson
Rick Majerus
Bob Huggins
John Beilein
Tony Bennett

 

[polycom]

Why do I feeling like you are trying to bait me into naming Dan Hurley? He's not "great" either, JIC anyone needed any clarification. OTOH, just like Cooley, he relatively young and there is still time for them to rise up the ranks?

Be that as it may, there is definitely room between "Very Good" and "Legend," and it should probably include those who have reached the second weekend more than once in 15 years.

Brad Stevens
Shaka Smart
Mark Few
Jim Harrick
Bruce Weber
Thad Matta
Kelvin Sampson
Rick Majerus
Bob Huggins
John Beilein
Tony Bennett

It isn't a bait for you to say DH. I wanted to see who you thought was a better coach than Cooley but not have you name John Wooden... or Coach K.

 

[Hey Adrien!]

And hopefully there won't be a situation in which that happens for the remainder of this season.

I made a generic post in this thread choosing not to target anyone. I only chose to target one individual all season because I felt there might be a modicum of hope that individual might think about how he presented his opinion regarding Andre.

Most of us don't want to be lectured. We've already escaped parenting once when we went through adolescence. Once upon a time in this forum I would approach certain individuals whom I felt were basically reasonable and spend a lot of time offering advice on better or worse approaches to critiquing. They were people who I felt were not overly sensitive because I didn't want to embarrass anyone. I rarely challenged them and I never demeaned them. It allowed for others to observe and get something out of it as well. This forum was still small back then and I felt that it could easily implode if someone didn't try to elevate the group. As it was we lost some good posters in spite of my efforts.

My philosophy is censorship should rarely be employed. Repressing anger and using authority to not let people be heard does not allow someone to realize there could be a better way to go through life and decide if they should begin to work on it. I made it clear I faced the same or similar challenges daily and appreciated, although not always immediately, when someone would help guide me.

It was exhausting work even though it was second nature to me. This forum is now much larger and there is a great nucleus of informative individuals who offer their knowledge to those of us who are less knowledgeable. It is no longer as vulnerable. That plus after decades of mediating and supporting individuals I've reached a point in life that I feel I can just enjoy things and no longer be the adult in the room.

Best advice I can give you is to recognize that for most of us change is difficult. It's easier for us to see the flaws in others and insist they change than to look in the mirror and recognize that we're often asking others to change because we are unwilling or unable to do so ourselves. The best thing you could do, given that you are sensitive and aware of behaviors that are non productive and demeaning is to reduce your sensitivity to it and just be a model in how you post. There are several individuals who do this. Two that come to mind are @Hey Adrien! and @auror.

Aw, shucks. Thanks.