the current APR rating system, the mechanics

[willie99]

each scholarship player can receive 2 points per semester. 1 point for staying at the school, and 1 point for being in good academic standing. If a team has 13 scholarship players, the team can accumulate a max of 26 points for a semester.

I don't believe UConn's score has been hurt by their student athlete's academics. Who has been academically ineligible? maybe a reserve for a semester here and there, but nothing substantive.

UConn's score has been hurt by kids who transfer and don't go pro (they don't hold going pro against you anymore). If a kid transfers they lose a point. If that same kid doesn't go to school or becomes academically ineligible, they lose another point.

Nate Miles is killing them to this day. They have lost 4 points per year for every year he would have been eligible at UConn. The max score they could have obtained would be around a 920 just because of him. (48/52 or 24/26). Throw in the other transfers and the school gets smoked.

So it's not about poor academics as so many seem to think. That's just piling on.

Qualification: I'm going off of long term memory and I don't know the specifics about UConn's score. I don't believe that data has been made public. Thus I believe my post is substantially accurate, but I may be missing something.

 

[willie99]

the lack of knowledge about the process reveals a lot about reporters, how informed they are, and their complete lack of work ethic

it's all about gotcha, cheap shots, perception and piling on

 

[imno1]

It seems ridiculous to be penalized for a kid that transfers. Shouldn't the happiness and welfare of the student be considered

 

[willie99]

the system also discourages the recruitment of inner-city kids which may be considered a risk

can't ruin that APR don'tchaknow

bureaucracy at it's finest

 

[willie99]

The APR is calculated by allocating points for eligibility and retention -- the two factors that research identifies as the best indicators of graduation. Each player on a given roster earns a maximum of two points per term, one for being academically eligible and one for staying with the institution. A team's APR is the total points of a team's roster at a given time divided by the total points possible. Since this results in a decimal number, the CAP decided to multiply it by 1,000 for ease of reference. Thus, a raw APR score of .925 translates into the 925 that will become the standard terminology.[1]
The NCAA does adjust APR, on a student-by-student basis, in two circumstances—when a player transfers to another school with a sufficiently high GPA, or leaves for a professional sports career while still in good academic standing. In the 2010–11 cycle, the NCAA granted nearly 700 APR adjustments in the latter category, out of a total of over 6,400 Division I teams. Nearly half of the adjustments were for baseball players.[2]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academic_Progress_Rate

 

[imno1]

The NCAA does adjust APR, on a student-by-student basis, in two circumstances—when a player transfers to another school with a sufficiently high GPA, or leaves for a professional sports career while still in good academic standing.

That makes more sense

 

[mcs333]

I don't believe Nate Miles had any impact on the last bad score. Darius Smith and John Mandelove were the two that impacted our score. Both were 0-2 as they left school in poor academic standing. I believe Nate Miles only impacted the score for one year.

 

[willie99]

The NCAA does adjust APR, on a student-by-student basis, in two circumstances—when a player transfers to another school with a sufficiently high GPA, or leaves for a professional sports career while still in good academic standing.

That makes more sense

I don't believe "sufficiently high GPA" can be interpreted the same as "in good standing" or "passing". I think it's a higher standard, or there would have been more than 700 adjustments for all sports at every school combined.

 

[willie99]

I don't believe Nate Miles had any impact on the last bad score. Darius Smith and John Mandelove were the two that impacted our score. Both were 0-2 as they left school in poor academic standing. I believe Nate Miles only impacted the score for one year.

I disagree, although I'm not positive. I remember reading about how he would be dragging the school down for all four years he was eligible. I'm going back to last summer though, so there's room for me to be wrong.

 

[willie99]

all of which begs this question, if Bob Knight is right about 6 UK players not attending class in the spring of 2010, before they all left early, how can they be in good academic standing when they went pro?

 

[caw]

each scholarship player can receive 2 points per semester. 1 point for staying at the school, and 1 point for being in good academic standing. If a team has 13 scholarship players, the team can accumulate a max of 26 points for a semester.

I don't believe UConn's score has been hurt by their student athlete's academics. Who has been academically ineligible? maybe a reserve for a semester here and there, but nothing substantive.

UConn's score has been hurt by kids who transfer and don't go pro (they don't hold going pro against you anymore). If a kid transfers they lose a point. If that same kid doesn't go to school or becomes academically ineligible, they lose another point.

Nate Miles is killing them to this day. They have lost 4 points per year for every year he would have been eligible at UConn. The max score they could have obtained would be around a 920 just because of him. (48/52 or 24/26). Throw in the other transfers and the school gets smoked.

So it's not about poor academics as so many seem to think. That's just piling on.

Qualification: I'm going off of long term memory and I don't know the specifics about UConn's score. I don't believe that data has been made public. Thus I believe my post is substantially accurate, but I may be missing something.

I don't believe that is true. He is hurting the "rolling" average, but because the scholarship is 1 year renewable after the first year he left, he no longer counts to the next year's count. So he is affecting the 2008-2009 1 year and any four year average that includes the 2008-2009 season. He is not on the single year for the 2009-2010, 2010-2011 or 2011-2012 count. I'm not even sure if he is losing 4 points total or because he withdrew (was kicked out) in the first semester if he counts for the second semester, so he may only be a 2 point deduction. Don't get me wrong that's about a 40-50 point drop for a single year and a 10-12.5 point drop (give or take) for a 4 year average. Considering what UConn's 4 year average is for 2009-2010 (893) that does hurt because it drops UConn below 900.

The last two years the APR has been 844 and 826. Even with a 975 this year the four year score will not be looking good. UConn would still be tournament eligible under the old rules and would need 3 consecutive years of being below 900 to be ineligible (as both Southern and Grambling were) but may (depending on what the 2008-2009 scores, not on NCAA.org for single year) on the second year below 900 next year. Assuming this year's APR 2011-2012 is high (970+), UConn would likely be well above the 900 mark by year 3 and not have a NCAAT sanction. By the old rules that would have been for the 2013-2014 season, with 2011-2012 being year 1, 2012-2013 being year 2 and 2013-2014 being year 3. Basically with the new rules they cut UConn's time to right the ship by a year.

Below are the old rules:​

"Division I teams that do not earn an Academic Progress Rate above specific benchmarks face penalties ranging from scholarship reductions to more severe sanctions.​

Teams that score below 925 and have at least one student-athlete who both failed academically and left school can lose scholarships (up to 10 percent of their scholarships each year) under the immediate-penalty structure.​

Teams with Academic Progress Rates below 900 face additional sanctions, increasing in severity for each consecutive year the team fails to meet the standard.​

• Year 1: A public warning letter for poor performance
• Year 2: Restrictions on scholarships and practice time
• Year 3: Loss of postseason competition for the team (such as a bowl game or the men’s basketball tournament)
• Year 4: Restricted membership status for an institution. The school’s entire athletics program is penalized and will not be considered a part of Division I."

 

[HuskyBballFan]

I disagree, although I'm not positive. I remember reading about how he would be dragging the school down for all four years he was eligible. I'm going back to last summer though, so there's room for me to be wrong.

No, each year's score is based on whatever players are currently on the roster. Nate Miles was only included on the 2009 score.

However, since the APR is based on a 4 year average, Miles does technically have an effect on our APR until his year (2009) rolls off of the 4 year average.

 

[freescooter]

willie,

I do not believe you are correct about Nate Miles. He expelled form the university. That is a totally different level of action which goes beyond the NCAA. I read at the time on something that the NCAA makes adjustments for those situations since they wouldn't want to be blamed if a school kept a kid who was considered a danger or a criminal because of fear of NCAA impacts. Like most things the NCAA does, its motivation was to protect itself from criticism, but so be it. Nate Miles does not have long term impacts. This is about other guys leaving without completeing classwork once the basketball season comes to an end. UCONN has been horrible in that regard, everyone knew it and we did nothing about it. Now it seems that we are finally getting our act together. But whjile you can blame Nate Miles for many of our issues, APR isn't one of them.

 

[caw]

willie,

I do not believe you are correct about Nate Miles. He expelled form the university. That is a totally different level of action which goes beyond the NCAA. I read at the time on something that the NCAA makes adjustments for those situations since they wouldn't want to be blamed if a school kept a kid who was considered a danger or a criminal because of fear of NCAA impacts. Like most things the NCAA does, its motivation was to protect itself from criticism, but so be it. Nate Miles does not have long term impacts. This is about other guys leaving without completeing classwork once the basketball season comes to an end. UCONN has been horrible in that regard, everyone knew it and we did nothing about it. Now it seems that we are finally getting our act together. But whjile you can blame Nate Miles for many of our issues, APR isn't one of them.

That's the main issue. Whether seniors or early entrants, those pursuing pro basketball failed to finish their semesters academic work. Some managed to do it, but there was zero accountability or follow-up with these kids. Supposedly, there is a better system in place now.

There are other people who lost points as well by transferring to non-D1 schools (or JC, I can't remember if it's non-D1 or 4 year institution). For example, Jamal Coombs-McDaniel shouldn't have cost UConn anything (if he had good grades, which he didn't) because he directly transferred to another D1 in Hofstra but Jamaal Trice went to Midland (JC) and lost UConn points regardless of academics. Both do the same to the four year average of about 5-6 lost points assuming you have 12-13 scholarship players every year for 4 years. Of course the fewer scholarships you have the greater the change one ding has on APR.

This year's team has only 10 on scholarship so a maximum of 40 points.
Last year's team had 11.5 scholarships or 46 maximum points (Wolf had a half year) and lost 1 point for Jamal Coombs-McDaniel.
2009-2010 lost about 8-9 points for 11? scholarships, that is horrid
2008-2009 lost about 7-8 points for 11 or 12? scholarships, that is also horrid

 

[willie99]

I can't find the specifics about the APR calculation or the potential adjustments they make. Even the NCAA site's explanations are vague and simplistic

 

[RS9999X]

I can't find the specifics about the APR calculation or the potential adjustments they make. Even the NCAA site's explanations are vague and simplistic

There's a smple APR worksheet that floats around that the NCAA uses in training. (it's all software now)

Players who leave in bad standing are always 0-2.
Ineligible but retained 1-2.

------------------- Common Waivers If In Good Standing --------------------------------------------------------
1) Transfers to a Div I school: 1-2. Teams lose the retention point. Adjusted to a 2-2 if 2.6 or better GPA
2) Players going pro 1-2. Adjusted to a 1-1 on waiver -- the retention point is dropped entirely.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Calculated every semester. Nate Miles was either 0-2 or 0-0 that Fall. I never saw an expelled before season starts rule.

Last year they had 10 scholarships in the fall and 11 in the Spring (Wolf).
Fall: 20 out of 20 points
Spring: 21 out of 22 points. Jamal Coombs-McDaniel transferred in good standing

41/42 = .9782 * 1000 = 978.2. I think the rule is they round down (drop the last number completely).

 

[caw]

There's a smple APR worksheet that floats around that the NCAA uses in training. (it's all software now)

Players who leave in bad standing are always 0-2.
Ineligible but retained 1-2.

------------------- Common Waivers If In Good Standing --------------------------------------------------------
1) Transfers to a Div I school: 1-2. Teams lose the retention point. Adjusted to a 2-2 if 2.6 or better GPA
2) Players going pro 1-2. Adjusted to a 1-1 on waiver -- the retention point is dropped entirely.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Calculated every semester. Nate Miles was either 0-2 or 0-0 that Fall. I never saw an expelled before season starts rule.

Last year they had 10 scholarships in the fall and 11 in the Spring (Wolf).
Fall: 20 out of 20 points
Spring: 21 out of 22 points. Jamal Coombs-McDaniel transferred in good standing

41/42 = .9782 * 1000 = 978.2. I think the rule is they round down (drop the last number completely).

I've never seen that before. It's very good to know, esp the highlighted part.

 

[champs99and04]

I think it's bull that you lose a point due to transfer. What the hell does a kid deciding he wants more shots or more minutes have to do with academics? If the kid is in good standing he should get full credit.

Also, does anybody know of examples of the NCAA granting other schools waiver? Considering UConn is only seven points below 900, and they have made great strides over the last two years, this seems like as good a time as any for a waiver.

And does anybody have an explanation on why the NCAA refuses to use the current scores rather than the ones from 09/10? Or is it the four year average that includes this season and last?

 

[caw]

I think it's bull **** that you lose a point due to transfer. What the hell does a kid deciding he wants more shots or more minutes have to do with academics? If the kid is in good standing he should get full credit.

Also, does anybody know of examples of the NCAA granting other schools waiver? Considering UConn is only seven points below 900, and they have made great strides over the last two years, this seems like as good a time as any for a waiver.

And does anybody have an explanation on why the NCAA refuses to use the current scores rather than the ones from 09/10? Or is it the four year average that includes this season and last?

It's pretty fair when you can get the point back if the transfer goes D1/D2 and has a 2.6 or higher.

As to the last paragraph, I believe they keep stating it would be too hard to get that data for all schools fast enough, considering waivers and such.

 

[RS9999X]

From the NCAA Training Power Point on Adjustments (waivers)

"Adjustments" During
Data Entry

Allowable exclusions (death or permanent disability, church mission, military service, foreign service, Olympics waiver, pregnancy).

2.6 GPA transfer to another four-year institution.

Professional athletics departure.

Medical-absence waiver.

Missed-term exception.

　
　---------------------------------------------------------------------

2.6 GPA Transfer Documentation
Transcript or document from second institution on letterhead.



Matriculation statement from registrar or certifying officer from second institution.


Verification from the National Student Clearinghouse.
　
　
　
　------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Professional Athletics Documentation
Acceptable documentation.

Newspaper article (
"Local Boy/Girl Turns Pro").

Professional team roster with athlete's name.

Signed contract with a professional sports team or organization.

Established pattern of acceptance of prize money for competition.

Documented declaration of intent to compete as a professional in an individual sport (e.g., tennis, golf).

 

[caw]

From the NCAA Training Power Point on Adjustments (waivers)

"Adjustments" During
Data Entry

Allowable exclusions (death or permanent disability, church mission, military service, foreign service, Olympics waiver, pregnancy).

2.6 GPA transfer to another four-year institution.
Professional athletics departure.

Medical-absence waiver.

Missed-term exception.

　
　

2.6 GPA Transfer Documentation
Transcript or document from second institution on letterhead.



Matriculation statement from registrar or certifying officer from second institution.


Verification from the National Student Clearinghouse.
　
　
　
　

Professional Athletics Documentation
Acceptable documentation.

Newspaper article (
"Local Boy/Girl Turns Pro").

Professional team roster with athlete's name.

Signed contract with a professional sports team or organization.

Established pattern of acceptance of prize money for competition.

Documented declaration of intent to compete as a professional in an individual sport (e.g., tennis, golf).

So you are saying someone should have assassinated Nate Miles?

 

[RS9999X]

Attached Sample NCAA APR worksheet

 

[RS9999X]

So you are saying someone should have assassinated Nate Miles?

After a prison raping, dismembering, and posting his head on a pike.

 

[caw]

Attached Sample NCAA APR worksheet

Can we have this pinned somewhere? I'm sure lots of people would love to see it.

 

[RS9999X]

Can we have this pinned somewhere? I'm sure lots of people would love to see it.

Attached is the long list of 1-1 exceptions:

1-1 are academically eligible but leave the program. These can be adjusted to 1-1 instead of 1-2.

The pro sports exception is the relevant one. The others are of the "there was an earthquake, there is a hole where the bio lab once stood and she was a bio major" or "She was sexually harrassed " variety of adjustments to the Retention Point.