The Bryant-Noel marriage...

[HuskiesFan1014]

Another loss. Another game watching Bryant watch Noel.

I like the guy and think he's a tough SOB, but Good God...he locks onto Noel and sees nothing else. Sitting down low (which was easy today) it's even more evident that there is no progression. He watches Noel from the snap, forces passes to him or tucks and runs. I was excited to see a Garrett today, but that was short-lived. Shireffs is a Tough SOB, but we can't win with his talent level.

 

[zls44]

I like BS, good kid, tough SOB, but he's a symptom of the bigger problem with Diaco.

Another FBS coaching staff determined he wasn't a QB. Determined he's FAR from a QB. But Diaco figured he's smarter than everyone else and he is one, ignoring the fact that he's a defensive coach and could just magically turn him into something he isn't.

 

[kemba]

I like BS, good kid, tough SOB, but he's a symptom of the bigger problem with Diaco.

Another FBS coaching staff determined he wasn't a QB. Determined he's FAR from a QB. But Diaco figured he's smarter than everyone else and he is one, ignoring the fact that he's a defensive coach and could just magically turn him into something he isn't.

But the thing is he's still our best option, and that's the issue. We continue to bring in flawed castoffs to play QB, since none of our recruits work out.

It's similar to Frazer, a bad Notre Dame team had him 5th on the depth chart, and sadly he was still our best option. There has been some bad luck, Cochran looked legit, Endres played well but couldn't stop smoking weed, but then we've also recruited busts, and not given guys who could play opportunities.

 

[huskyinfl]

Garrett crapped his pants today.

 

[zls44]

But the thing is he's still our best option, and that's the issue. We continue to bring in flawed castoffs to play QB, since none of our recruits work out.

It's similar to Frazer, a bad Notre Dame team had him 5th on the depth chart, and sadly he was still our best option. There has been some luck, Cochran looked legit, Endres played well but couldn't stop smoking weed, but then we've also recruited busts, and not given guys who could play opportunities.

At some point, someone involved with this athletic department in a coaching capacity is going to realize that if another program at a higher level says the guy isn't a solid QB, he ISN'T A SOLID QB GET SOMEONE ON YOUR OWN FOR ONCE.

 

[Forte]

But the thing is he's still our best option, and that's the issue. We continue to bring in flawed castoffs to play QB, since none of our recruits work out.

It's similar to Frazer, a bad Notre Dame team had him 5th on the depth chart, and sadly he was still our best option. There has been some luck, Cochran looked legit, Endres played well but couldn't stop smoking weed, but then we've also recruited busts, and not given guys who could play opportunities.

He's not our best option.... he's our best option if we refuse to burn a redshirt. Other programs burn redshirts, for example UCF, they know they have something special going forward. They are just ONE example. Danny O started his first year. Here me out on this one.. SO MANY things can change in 4 years. What if, hopefully not, but what if Williams comes in next year and gets injured at ANY point in his 4 years. Theres no redshirt to burn he just has to eat it. What if this next QB Jordan comes in and Williams never see's a snap. What if another coach comes in and there are transfers or other ideas of what a QB should be. 4 years ago we had HCPP. Established successful programs have the luxury of redshirting. Programs trying to find themselves and create an identity don't, especially those who are in the pits. Play for the now.

 

[kemba]

He's not our best option.... he's our best option if we refuse to burn a redshirt. Other programs burn redshirts, for example UCF, they know they have something special going forward. They are just ONE example. Danny O started his first year. Here me out on this one.. SO MANY things can change in 4 years. What if, hopefully not, but what if Williams comes in next year and gets injured at ANY point in his 4 years. Theres no redshirt to burn he just has to eat it. What if this next QB Jordan comes in and Williams never see's a snap. What if another coach comes in and there are transfers or other ideas of what a QB should be. 4 years ago we had HCPP. Established successful programs have the luxury of redshirting. Programs trying to find themselves and create an identity don't, especially those who are in the pits. Play for the now.

Well we're never going to know for sure but saying Williams can come in and be better right now is a huge assumption, and the odds are against it.

 

[huskymedic]

Danny O started his first year.

Due to injury not due to ineffectiveness of starter, OC or Coach.

 

[HuskiesFan1014]

Garrett crapped his pants today.

Great post. Well thought out.

 

[BNich]

Well we're never going to know for sure but saying Williams can come in and be better right now is a huge assumption, and the odds are against it.

After being lucky enough to be bowl eligible last year, they should already be bowl eligible if not one win shy this year. It's not that he can be better right now, or right away, but he can be groomed for the future. Let him take his lumps and learn in what appears to be another lost season after losing 4 of the last 5 games all winnable in disappointing fashion.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

He's not our best option.... he's our best option if we refuse to burn a redshirt.

Forte,. From your observations what does Williams need work on at the moment? What does he do well (at least well enough to get by at this level)? How is his arm strength? Can he throw a deep out to the opposite sideline? Can he make the read on whether to hit the fro t shoulder or back shoulder? Can he consistently hit that shoulder?

Can he hit a receiver in stride on according route or slant? Can he read man vs zone early in the pattern even if the defense has it disguised reasonably well? During his progressions can he tell if the receiver has correctly read man or zone? Does he rush through his progressions (as most younger QBs do) or does he already have sufficient patience? If he does have sufficient patience does he also have the requisite urgency to release the ball andavoid a sack if nobody is open?

I imagine he has very good mobility. Would you say he is more of someone who would move to buy time to throw (somewhat like Milton, who areas today) or does he become a major threat as a runner (like Flowers, whose saw last week). If it is the former, please compare and contrast the two. If it is the latter, same request.

I haven't yet seen anything beyond highlight film on Williams myself so I am at a bit of a disadvantage. Thank you in advance for letting me know what you have learned from your observations.

 

[BNich]

Forte,. From your observations what does Williams need work on at the moment? What does he do well (at least well enough to get by at this level)? How is his arm strength? Can he throw a deep out to the opposite sideline? Can he make the read on whether to hit the fro t shoulder or back shoulder? Can he consistently hit that shoulder?

Can he hit a receiver in stride on according route or slant? Can he read man vs zone early in the pattern even if the defense has it disguised reasonably well? During his progressions can he tell if the receiver has correctly read man or zone? Does he rush through his progressions (as most younger QBs do) or does he already have sufficient patience? If he does have sufficient patience does he also have the requisite urgency to release the ball andavoid a sack if nobody is open?

I imagine he has very good mobility. Would you say he is more of someone who would move to buy time to throw (somewhat like Milton, who areas today) or does he become a major threat as a runner (like Flowers, whose saw last week). If it is the former, please compare and contrast the two. If it is the latter, same request.

I haven't yet seen anything beyond highlight film on Williams myself so I am at a bit of a disadvantage. Thank you in advance for letting me know what you have learned from your observations.

Just for the sake of comparison, I encourage you to answer every question you just asked regarding Shirreffs. Then let's continue the conversation from there. Is BS the QB to get this team to bowl eligibility for the second straight year? If not, why proceed with him? Practically the entire offense is back from a year ago. If he is a leader or a better QB from a year ago, why isn't this team winning? And if they aren't going to continue to win, why play someone in the position of leader of the offense if they aren't the future?

 

[FfldCntyFan]

Just for the sake of comparison, I encourage you to answer every question you just asked regarding Shirreffs. Then let's continue the conversation from there. Is BS the QB to get this team to bowl eligibility for the second straight year? If not, why proceed with him? Practically the entire offense is back from a year ago. If he is a leader or a better QB from a year ago, why isn't this team winning? And if they aren't going to continue to win, why play someone in the position of leader of the offense if they aren't the future?

I got home from the game about a half hour ago. During the game I spoke with three different boneyarders more than once (Nostical, Business Lawyer & FDNY99). I don't like knocking kids, especially on a place like a team's message board but today I was at my worst when speaking of our starting QB.

I am now fully convinced that it is the QB, not the staff who is at fault for all of the delay problems we've had the past two years. I am convinced, even with his courage and heart, he more than anything is what leads to the countless threads calling for the coach's head. That the offensive coaching and game planning is not anywhere as bad as we are led to believe judging only by the results.

I asked Nostical today at halftime if the season was salvageable. I don't know if it is and I'm beginning to wonder if it would make sense at this point to work Williams into the lineup. My concern there is that if he isn't ready it could do far more harm than good if we throw him to the wolves. This is where I am glad that Diaco has more job security today than TJ did when he threw Boyle to the wolves.

I can't blame Diaco for our not having a RS Soph QB on our roster. It is quite disappointing that Davis (who should be the guy getting worked into the lineup this year) isn't enough of a QB talent at this level that we ended up moving him to a position that we have quite a bit of young talent. If Williams is a miss, we can conclude that our staff doesn't have what it takes to bring in competent QBs. Considering the gravity of what is riding on it, the staff needs to act towards what is best for Williams' overall development. If they believe it is redshirting him no matter what, so be it.

That said, I don't see how anyone can make a definitive claim, such as Forte's that Williams today is the best option without having seen the kid play extensively against collegiate level competition (such as what Williams faces in practice).

 

[BNich]

I got home from the game about a half hour ago. During the game I spoke with three different boneyarders more than once (Nostical, Business Lawyer & FDNY99). I don't like knocking kids, especially on a place like a team's message board but today I was at my worst when speaking of our starting QB.

I am now fully convinced that it is the QB, not the staff who is at fault for all of the delay problems we've had the past two years. I am convinced, even with his courage and heart, he more than anything is what leads to the countless threads calling for the coach's head. That the offensive coaching and game planning is not anywhere as bad as we are led to believe judging only by the results.

I asked Nostical today at halftime if the season was salvageable. I don't know if it is and I'm beginning to wonder if it would make sense at this point to work Williams into the lineup. My concern there is that if he isn't ready it could do far more harm than good if we throw him to the wolves. This is where I am glad that Diaco has more job security today than TJ did when he threw Boyle to the wolves.

I can't blame Diaco for our not having a RS Soph QB on our roster. It is quite disappointing that Davis (who should be the guy getting worked into the lineup this year) isn't enough of a QB talent at this level that we ended up moving him to a position that we have quite a bit of young talent. If Williams is a miss, we can conclude that our staff doesn't have what it takes to bring in competent QBs. Considering the gravity of what is riding on it, the staff needs to act towards what is best for Williams' overall development. If they believe it is redshirting him no matter what, so be it.

That said, I don't see how anyone can make a definitive claim, such as Forte's that Williams today is the best option without having seen the kid play extensively against collegiate level competition (such as what Williams faces in practice).

You still never answered anything I asked. But at least you answered with an acknowledgement that Shirreffs probably isn't going to make this team better before his time is up.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

You still never answered anything I asked. But at least you answered with an acknowledgement that Shirreffs probably isn't going to make this team better before his time is up.

I will gladly answer everything you asked once Forte answers everything I asked (I did ask him first).

 

[Da_Aisijimo_Gou]

Due to injury not due to ineffectiveness of starter, OC or Coach.

At the last second, didn't the original expected starter opt not to return?

 

[The Viking]

Garrett crapped his pants today.

Correct me if I'm wrong but the only two snaps I saw him, the first one was a hand off where Newsome got crushed behind the line. Second one he dropped back and got swarmed pretty much immediately. Trying to think what BS would have done in his place. Throw a pick instead of take the sack?

 

[ZOOCONN]

Another loss. Another game watching Bryant watch Noel.

I like the guy and think he's a tough SOB, but Good God...he locks onto Noel and sees nothing else. Sitting down low (which was easy today) it's even more evident that there is no progression. He watches Noel from the snap, forces passes to him or tucks and runs. I was excited to see a Garrett today, but that was short-lived. Shireffs is a Tough SOB, but we can't win with his talent level.

his reads are non existent buuuuut for the first time since he stepped on the field at UConn i actually watched him slide around in the pocket to buy more time and extend plays. granted he missed those throws but at least he didnt tuck it and scramble for one yard like usual.

 

[FDNY99]

Garrett crapped his pants today.

More like Ron Johnson must not like him very much...he watched that kid from UCF blow by him like the Metro North Express heading to GCT.

 

[FDNY99]

I talked with @FfldCntyFan a few times during the game yesterday as he stated. It became painfully evident yesterday how bad BS is at managing a game...Diaco had to call a TO in the 2nd qtr as the O was driving and in the red zone..going at the student section. With the play clock ticking down BS had no sense of urgency in snapping the ball. WTF is he looking at there...the play clock is large and in his face going into that end of the Rent! Another play..he needed to make a throw on 3rd down...locked on to Newsmen who was double covered and missed Beals who was WIDE open on the UCF sidelines. BS is touch, and has a LOT of heart..but a QB he is NOT! I'm starting to wonder how much of the offense issues are on him and NOT on the OC. He can make good throws until the team gets inside of the red zone...then all of the sudden the O bogs down...here is what I took form the game yesterday: As the field gets shorter (red zone area) the lack of room forces BS to make quick reads and plays. He can do it some of the time,...but as we saw yesterday 90+% of the time drives stall. He just isn't a college QB. The ball Thomas "dropped" in the end zone would have been a GREAT catch considering that BS threw the ball to the wrong spot. @FfldCntyFan and I also talked yesterday about Lineburg as QB coach....we both agree he is definitely NOT getting it done there..at least with regards to BS. But then again you can only do so much with what you got!

 

[businesslawyer]

I like BS, good kid, tough SOB, but he's a symptom of the bigger problem with Diaco.

Another FBS coaching staff determined he wasn't a QB. Determined he's FAR from a QB. But Diaco figured he's smarter than everyone else and he is one, ignoring the fact that he's a defensive coach and could just magically turn him into something he isn't.

I'm sorry but this is such complete crap. BS got on the field, at QB, as a true Frosh, at a program in a conference that is way, way ahead of ours. The staff then decided that he wasn't good enough to have an impact at NC State, presumably for some of the same weaknesses that we see, and tried to move him. He decided to move to a lower level of football (and I hate to break it to you all but you don't get to constantly whine about how badly we suck and then pretend you don't believe that just because someone can't start at NC State doesn't mean they can't be a productive starter for us). And barring injury, by the time he's done, he will end up as a 3 year starter and without question have had the second best career of any QB here in our BCS era.

Shirreffs is not good enough to lead a team to the Top 20. But he is far, far more than good enough to help us compete for AAC titles. Talk to me about QB play when we have a front 7 that can give the QB less than 30 seconds to throw the ball. Or a team that doesn't think it's illegal to return punts. Or an OL that can play like it played yesterday consistently. Or a second WR who can get open. (On 3rd down before one of the first half FGs, I saw Shirreffs swivel has head 4 times before giving up and throwing the ball away). Or LBs who can cover the receivers they are supposed to cover.

It's way, way too simplistic to blame a QB when you're ticked at a team. ZLS should know better.

As, for others of you, it's way too simplistic to blame play calling. For God's sake, we ran a HB option in the red zone and it worked to get us a 1st and goal from the 1 except that the refs just flat out chocked. If that play is called correctly, the coaches are brilliant and we very well might have won the game.

heading to the airport. Will try to do 241 tonight.

 

[FDNY99]

I'm sorry but this is such complete crap. BS got on the field, at QB, as a true Frosh, at a program in a conference that is way, way ahead of ours. The staff then decided that he wasn't good enough to have an impact at NC State, presumably for some of the same weaknesses that we see, and tried to move him. He decided to move to a lower level of football (and I hate to break it to you all but you don't get to constantly whine about how badly we suck and then pretend you don't believe that just because someone can't start at NC State doesn't mean they can't be a productive starter for us). And barring injury, by the time he's done, he will end up as a 3 year starter and without question have had the second best career of any QB here in our BCS era.

Shirreffs is not good enough to lead a team to the Top 20. But he is far, far more than good enough to help us compete for AAC titles. Talk to me about QB play when we have a front 7 that can give the QB less than 30 seconds to throw the ball. Or a team that doesn't think it's illegal to return punts. Or an OL that can play like it played yesterday consistently. Or a second WR who can get open. (On 3rd down before one of the first half FGs, I saw Shirreffs swivel has head 4 times before giving up and throwing the ball away). Or LBs who can cover the receivers they are supposed to cover.

It's way, way too simplistic to blame a QB when you're ticked at a team. ZLS should know better.

As, for others of you, it's way too simplistic to blame play calling. For God's sake, we ran a HB option in the red zone and it worked to get us a 1st and goal from the 1 except that the refs just flat out chocked. If that play is called correctly, the coaches are brilliant and we very well might have won the game.

heading to the airport. Will try to do 241 tonight.

BL as far as BS's skills to lead us to a AAC title..I'm going to respectfully disagree with you on that! All you need to do is watch his head coach have to call a time out to save them from a delay of game penalty yesterday in the red zone when he had team at the line and set to run a play. He can't make his reads or work through his progressions. That is what is needed to be a successful D-1 qb in ANY conference!