THe Bowl Championship Series is the real problem

[Carl Spackler]

All of this shiite about 12 teams, adding who, how...makes my head spin like Linda Blair.

Applying the KISS principle, and the easiest way to solve the most problems in college football is to eradicate the problem. A problem that's been around for some 130+ years if I did my math right. That is that college football is the one sport, in the entire world, professional or 'amateur' where there is no clear way to determine a champion on the field of competition.

The media has had a big part and a nuisance in the process for well over a century. It can't be more clear, the meddling media in all of it, after Defilippo's classic foot in mouth act around a floundering Boston College and ESPN and the ACC.

How do we get rid of the BCS and put a playoff system in place? I suppose Congress needs to get involved big time.

Blumenthal was a key player in one of the big headlines of all this conference shifting and legal crap 8 years ago, he's now in Washington.

If the BCS as a corrupt system goes away, and a playoff system put in place based on 1-A conference champions playing elimination games, as is done in 1-AA football, and all is well.

Geography comes back into play as to setting up conferences and division play, numbers of teams in conferences would get reduced back to numbers that makes sense for scheduling home and home. Student-athletes actually can become the focus. the corruption surrounding many college bowl games ends.

I really hope we get a playoff system in place before I die.

It's the only way to set things right. But until there can be a playoff system, we need to be part of the thing. Maddening.

 

[ctchamps]

The stuff that happened at the Fiesta Bowl is only the tip of the iceberg. How many Arizona politicians received penalties for their involvement. I'm not sure any did.

With that type of underlying corruption there won't be changes imo.

 

[RS9999X]

You think a playoff system would be better?

64 teams
1st round pays $500,000 per team (32 games)
2nd round pays $1,000,000 per team (16 games)
3rd round pays $2,000,000 per team (8 games)
------------------------------------------------------
Up to this point no one's made money. 8 teams team made $3.5 million for 3 games.They've played right through Finals. Ineligible students (based on credits) are struck from the roster from this point on. Likely the teams playing 3 rounds are in the black financially--but not by much. Teams knocked out in the first two rounds made expenses only.

At this point the BE may not have a team in the final 8

4th round pays $10 mi per team. (4 games)
5th round pays $15 mil per game (2 games)
7th round pays $20 mil per team (1 game)

Let's look at last years BCS rankings

Payouts for top 8 teams
---------------------------
Finals $48.5 total
Semis $28.5 total
Quarters $13.5 total

 

[RS9999X]

My point above: a playoff system can be just as oppressive financially.

The minute the decision is to micro manage the money and the distribution---that's another problem all together. That's different than a playoff with an increasing dollar pool based on New Year's Day TV ratings primacy

 

[SAMCRO]

You think a playoff system would be better?

64 teams
1st round pays $500,000 per team (32 games)
2nd round pays $1,000,000 per team (16 games)
3rd round pays $2,000,000 per team (8 games)
------------------------------------------------------
Up to this point no one's made money. 8 teams team made $3.5 million for 3 games.They've played right through Finals. Ineligible students (based on credits) are struck from the roster from this point on. Likely the teams playing 3 rounds are in the black financially--but not by much. Teams knocked out in the first two rounds made expenses only.

At this point the BE may not have a team in the final 8

4th round pays $10 mi per team. (4 games)
5th round pays $15 mil per game (2 games)
7th round pays $20 mil per team (1 game)

Let's look at last years BCS rankings

Payouts for top 8 teams
---------------------------
Finals $48.5 total
Semis $28.5 total
Quarters $13.5 total

Except that if they went to a playoff (8 teams, 16 teams, whatever) the payouts would be significantly higher then what you put in their. The sponsorship dollars for the first round, second round, etc... would be huge. Play 1st and 2nd rounds at home stadiums minimizes the travel impact. Eliminate each teams need to mandatorily buy 18,000 tickets as a condition of accepting the invitation to the bowl. There is so much more money to be made for all if a playoff ever comes to be. Also takes the greedy Bowl Committee for each bowl off the teet.

 

[RS9999X]

What the payoffs be? In the BCS 6 teams get $18 million for one game?

Do you think the networks will pay $18 mil per team in a 16 round format as a starting number? They pay $4 to $5 mil now for BCS wild card teams in the 10 team format.

 

[Jarhead_1775]

Except that if they went to a playoff (8 teams, 16 teams, whatever) the payouts would be significantly higher then what you put in their. The sponsorship dollars for the first round, second round, etc... would be huge. Play 1st and 2nd rounds at home stadiums minimizes the travel impact. Eliminate each teams need to mandatorily buy 18,000 tickets as a condition of accepting the invitation to the bowl. There is so much more money to be made for all if a playoff ever comes to be. Also takes the greedy Bowl Committee for each bowl off the teet.

I just see a playoff system as furthering the gap between the haves and have nots. The bama, lsu, Florida, etc go to the top collecting paychecks along the way. I hate the current bowl system too just for the record. There's no good answer, period.

 

[RS9999X]

I put in 7 bowls at the top paying a total of $180 mil

$80 million (8 teams $10 mil each) round of Eight
$60 mil (4 teams $15 mil each) Semi
$40 mil (2 teams $20 mil each) Finals

Currently the top 7 bowls pay around $148 mil total

 

[RS9999X]

I just see a playoff system as furthering the gap between the haves and have nots. The bama, lsu, Florida, etc go to the top collecting paychecks along the way. I hate the current bowl system too just for the record. There's no good answer, period.

I agree. Unless you get into the Mark Cuban deal where all the teams get a good sum just for agreeing to participate This of course creates a problem in itself. Do you pay every team $1 mil per round starting with 64 teams. Then $2 mil for 32 teams. Then $3 mil 16 teams. Then $4 mil for 8 teams. The $5 mil for 4 teams and then $6 mil for 2 teams.

The national champs earn $21 mil for 6 games plus they had another couple homes games before neutral bowls were required. Students fail miserably by playing continually from Thansgiving to January 10th.

 

[SubbaBub]

The issue has nothing to do with the amount nor split of playoff monies. It had everything to do with whom that money is split. Right now it's six conferences, not teams.
And they get paid based on fan interest not winning games. SEC and B1G moreso than the rest. They have no interest in duplicating the credit based model of the BB where the Horizon League can step up to the buffet by looking nice for the AP and winning a few games.

It will take either an unthinkable TV contract or a major scandal for the conferences to change their mind. Getting Congress involved is tricky because the home schools of some very large states are well represented. Orrin Hatch of Utah did get them in the P12, but didn't get as much traction as he should have had.

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[Jarhead_1775]

The issue has nothing to do with the amount nor split of playoff monies. It had everything to do with whom that money is split. Right now it's six conferences, not teams.
And they get paid based on fan interest not winning games. SEC and B1G moreso than the rest. They have no interest in duplicating the credit based model of the BB where the Horizon League can step up to the buffet by looking nice for the AP and winning a few games.

It will take either an unthinkable TV contract or a major scandal for the conferences to change their mind. Getting Congress involved is tricky because the home schools of some very large states are well represented. Orrin Hatch of Utah did get them in the P12, but didn't get as much traction as he should have had.

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Last I knew, that lawsuit was proceeding despite them going to the pac12.

 

[SAMCRO]

I agree. Unless you get into the Mark Cuban deal where all the teams get a good sum just for agreeing to participate This of course creates a problem in itself. Do you pay every team $1 mil per round starting with 64 teams. Then $2 mil for 32 teams. Then $3 mil 16 teams. Then $4 mil for 8 teams. The $5 mil for 4 teams and then $6 mil for 2 teams.

The national champs earn $21 mil for 6 games plus they had another couple homes games before neutral bowls were required. Students fail miserably by playing continually from Thansgiving to January 10th.

Definitely good points. I actually like the Mark Cuban plan for the msot part. Read "Death to the BCS" if you haven't already. The author (Wetzel I think) calls out the big conferences (SEC/B1G primarily), stating they are not as concerned always with making more money, as they are with widening the gap between them and others.

As for students failing miserably, I disagree. It's done at all other levels, with less convenient travel options (read, more/loger bus trips) and no one is calling for it to stop due to academics suffering.

 

[Carl Spackler]

a 64 team playoff in football is ridiculous. 16 teams at the most. 1-AA already has the model in place. There are 11 divison 1-A conferences right now. 11 automatic bids to conference champions and 5 at larges. Seeding determined by an NCAA committee.

Want to see Notre Dame run to a football conference? Want to see the college recruiting landscape actually balance out? Want to see the media money that influences college football get dispersed in a way that makes sense? Want to see the idea of mega conferences and what they do to the dozens of other sports that are involved in intercollegiate athletics go away? Teams like Mizzou would be running toward the MAC instead of trying to get into te good old boys club of the SEC.

Make it possible for a team like the Western Michigan team for example, or any other, that came into Rentschler the other day to win a national championship, and do it by being te best team on the field of play.

Then the college football world would actually make sense, academics at an institution, would actually play a big role in landing top notch student athletes, a kid that's good enough to be a heisman candidate could look at the values that any school in the country playing 1-A football brings, and still have the opportunity to play and contribute to a team taht can be #1.

and you know what - the team that wins the most games every year - would actually be the national champion.

The bowl committees won't go quietly though, and lose their million dollar cash cows they can count on during the christmas season every year.

It's going to take a whooping stick from the federal government to change anything.

 

[RS9999X]

Basketball says you are wrong about parity

In the years since the BE was formed there are a few upstarts in the Final Four.

Only Louisville,. in 1980, was a non-BCS winner and they were still B Ball royalty at the time. Houston in the 80s were SWAC. Lousville and Memphis and Cincy in the now forgotten Metro which was a B Ball powerhouse.

Final Four 'upstarts'

1980s
Houston - Clive and Hakeem
Lousiville -
Memphis -

1990s
Cincy - Huggins Van Excel Team
UMass- Camby and Calipari
Utah - Majerus

2000s
Marquette - Dwayne Wade
George Mason -
Butler -

 

[HuskyHawk]

Basketball says you are wrong about parity

In the years since the BE was formed there are a few upstarts in the Final Four.

Only Louisville,. in 1980, was a non-BCS winner and they were still B Ball royalty at the time. Houston in the 80s were SWAC. Lousville and Memphis and Cincy in the now forgotten Metro which was a B Ball powerhouse.

Final Four 'upstarts'

1980s
Houston - Clive and Hakeem
Lousiville -
Memphis -

1990s
Cincy - Huggins Van Excel Team
UMass- Camby and Calipari
Utah - Majerus

2000s
Marquette - Dwayne Wade
George Mason -
Butler -

With a 16 team playoff, just getting in is a victory. Teams would promote advancement to the elite 8 and final four, as they do for hoops. There is more party in basketball. The final four teams tend to be major schools, but the overall competitiveness is much broader. Do you think any major conference team takes Xavier or Butler lightly? Once anyone can qualify, the landscape will shift, and talent will be more evenly dispersed.

I don't expect anything to change the fact that OU, LSU, OSU, Bama etc. will be among the best teams consistently. What I think you will see is that the top 10 won't be 20 points better than the rest of the top 25, and those just outside the top 25 will be more competitive than they are now. Blowouts will be less common. The games will be closer more exciting, which will drive interest in college football. You'll have more of a "on any given Saturday" effect. Going undefeated will be very rare.

 

[toppencil]

Basketball says you are wrong about parity

In the years since the BE was formed there are a few upstarts in the Final Four.

Only Louisville,. in 1980, was a non-BCS winner and they were still B Ball royalty at the time. Houston in the 80s were SWAC. Lousville and Memphis and Cincy in the now forgotten Metro which was a B Ball powerhouse.

Final Four 'upstarts'

1980s
Houston - Clive and Hakeem
Lousiville -
Memphis -

1990s
Cincy - Huggins Van Excel Team
UMass- Camby and Calipari
Utah - Majerus

2000s
Marquette - Dwayne Wade
George Mason -
Butler -

No, you are wrong. Besides the fact that the final four is a poor measure of parity. You left out that Butler was in the finals the last 2 years. VCU was in the final four last year. Memphis was in the final four in 2008. In the last few years there has been a great deal of parity from so called mid-majors. Several mid major programs have had strong tournament performances in the last 10 years.

 

[RS9999X]

With teams like Texas building towards $125,000 seat stadiums and $20 million dollar Tier 3 networks there will be one or two coaches who refuse to leave their small schools while waiting for the right offer. Most will be like more like Kelly or Petrino.

A Boise, a Utah and TCU? They won't find it any easier unless you mandate 11 seats at the table--one for each conference champs. Otherwise the coaches leave, the program crumbles and there's not enough money to lure a top name coach. The second rate facilities speak for themselves. No....a play0ff is not a magic bullet to parity.

In 13 years of the BCS, 10 non BCS teams made the BCS. (TCU, Utah, Boisie, Hawaii and ND). Would that change all that much?

After flipping through history of the BCS last week 16 (the pre bowl selections) the ACC and BE would be the big winners. BYU an extra bid. Not too much else except one year where UTAH and TCU were bumping heads for a slot