The Big East was dead all along...

[epark88]

Well, at least according to this article it was.

Very good insights included in the story, although I don't agree with all of the author's assessments...

 

[junglehusky]

This is a cute line:

And remember, you need both big spenders and die hards. If your sport only has big spenders then it's the Henley Regatta. If it only has die hards then it's a tractor pull.

 

[Jericho]

Here's the thing about these articles. It's always knocking the Big East because of football. And obviously that's where all the money is today. But the problem is the Big East is not a football league. It started without any football. Football came later, basically picking up the scraps that had yet to find a conference. It did reasonably well all things considered. And while turning down Penn State was a mistake, who's to say Penn State would not have left (like Miami and VT and WVU did)?

The problem is not how the Big East was run, but the product it sold (basketball). once that product got surpassed by another (football), there was little the Big East could do. They can't control basketball's popularity and they never had any real shot at football kingpins (like Michigan, Ohio State, Alabama, Florida, LSU, Texas, etc...). They are similar to any other surpassed technology. Their product has been surpassed, but unlike in business they can't just change the product.

 

[businesslawyer]

The part up to the federal land grant act was horse manure. The rest of it is spot on.

 

[freescooter]

I sort of agree withyou Jerciho, but not entirely. On the one hand, as I said previoulsy, the Big East being the best basketball league is like being the best typewriter manufacturer in the country...I suppose it is better than not being the best, but it isn't particularly relevent. On theother hand, the way the Big East has been run for the better part of 2 decades since football was added has absolutley contribulted to its problems. This isn't intended to blame the basketball schools or the football schools...just to stress that the two groups had very different outlooks and needs and to some degree at least different histoies, and ultimately were unable to cooperate effectivley when it was needed.

 

[Vowelguy]

The problem is not how the Big East was run, but the product it sold (basketball). once that product got surpassed by another (football), there was little the Big East could do. They can't control basketball's popularity and they never had any real shot at football kingpins (like Michigan, Ohio State, Alabama, Florida, LSU, Texas, etc...). They are similar to any other surpassed technology. Their product has been surpassed, but unlike in business they can't just change the product.

In other words, the Big East is the Betamax of College Sports.


(Or am I dating myself too much with that reference?)

 

[Jericho]

I sort of agree withyou Jerciho, but not entirely. On the one hand, as I said previoulsy, the Big East being the best basketball league is like being the best typewriter manufacturer in the country...I suppose it is better than not being the best, but it isn't particularly relevent. On theother hand, the way the Big East has been run for the better part of 2 decades since football was added has absolutley contribulted to its problems. This isn't intended to blame the basketball schools or the football schools...just to stress that the two groups had very different outlooks and needs and to some degree at least different histoies, and ultimately were unable to cooperate effectivley when it was needed.

Maybe more decisions could have been made pro-football, but in the long run would it have changed anything? It's like a bankrupt company saying how they could have earned a few more bucks here and there. Would not have changed the fact the company would still have gone bankrupt.

 

[HuskyHawk]

I sort of agree withyou Jerciho, but not entirely. On the one hand, as I said previoulsy, the Big East being the best basketball league is like being the best typewriter manufacturer in the country...I suppose it is better than not being the best, but it isn't particularly relevent. On theother hand, the way the Big East has been run for the better part of 2 decades since football was added has absolutley contribulted to its problems. This isn't intended to blame the basketball schools or the football schools...just to stress that the two groups had very different outlooks and needs and to some degree at least different histoies, and ultimately were unable to cooperate effectivley when it was needed.

I think everyone is selling basketball far too short. It was NEVER more popular than football. But it isn't betamax or a typewriter either. The NCAA Tournament is huge. It's bigger than any bowl game or BCS championship game. The basketball inventory is also huge, and is deperately needed by ESPN and these fledgling sports networks. It's not that basketball doesn't have value, hell even college baseball is on ESPN regularly now.

One problem is that the disparity isn't there between the have's and have nots. Alabama and LSU are closer to being draws as baskeball programs than Duke and Kentucky are as football programs. The other issue is game times. The Thursday and Friday games have helped, but the the reality is that only a handful of football games can be aired a week. So if a given network needs only 2-3 games a week...it doesn't want to showcase Cincy and Rutgers. It probably does want Cincy and Rutgers for its Wednesday 7:00 PM basketball slot however. The Pac 12 probably had value specifically because they play other than Saturday afternoon Eastern. Washington-Arizona St. is ok if it isn't going against Michigan vs Nebraska or Florida vs Georgia.

I think the Big East's problem is that the Hoops schools may have been right. Big East football has little value. ESPN wants the basketball inventory, but won't pay up for the football, because if you line up a BE game against the B1G, B12 or SEC, it will lose the ratings war every time. The NBE changes nothing, except making basketball less valuable. Nobody wants to watch Boise vs SFU.

 

[freescooter]

Huskyhawk, Basketball is a fine sport. Very popular. But it is meaningless in the current scheme of things. So is being a great basketball conference. Nobody is paying $20 million per team for basketball.

And Jericho, it isn't really a question of pro-football decision making. It is simply a question of making decisons that are in the best interests of the various participants...if you go back to the last expansion, the Big East sort of caught a break in that Cincy and Louisville, two basketball powers who also played football at a pretty high level were available and arguably "in our footprint." But did it really make sense to also add Marquette and DePaul? The Big East never had a single agenda, and things which benefitted some hurt the others and vice versa. In 20-20 hindsight, the Big East football League should have gone its own way back in the 1990s, ideally with UCONN and Villanova joining. The first group to leave, BC, VaTech, Miami (and I'd include Syracuse since they were originally part of the group, not VaTech), were really frustrated with the Big east and the way it operated. And it isn't about football vs basketball schools with one being the good guys and the other beign bad guys. It is just that they have different issues and different goals for their athletic programs. For that matter, different levels of committment to athletics. It just doesn't work.

 

[upstater]

I tend to disagree with the notion PSU would not have made a difference. Remember, back then they were talking about Maryland and FSU joining with Miami. Every league has a few big teams and a bunch of pipsqueaks. The Big10 and Big12 are no different.

 

[ZooCougar]

Great article, but I still don't understand why Tranghese still gets a free pass for missing the boat for so long.

It's not that he failed after 2002-3, it's that he failed before that. He got paid to advise the member institutions and head off calamity, instead he contributed to it.

Marinatto is just a continuation of that failed policy/mentality.

 

[The Funster]

Great article, but I still don't understand why Tranghese still gets a free pass for missing the boat for so long.

It's not that he failed after 2002-3, it's that he failed before that. He got paid to advise the member institutions and head off calamity, instead he contributed to it.

Marinatto is just a continuation of that failed policy/mentality.

Tranghese gets the Lion's share of the blame, IMO. He was more concerned with preserving Gavitt's legacy than Gavitt would have been had Gavitt remained commissioner.

 

[Excalibur]

Here's the thing about these articles. It's always knocking the Big East because of football. And obviously that's where all the money is today. But the problem is the Big East is not a football league. It started without any football. Football came later, basically picking up the scraps that had yet to find a conference. It did reasonably well all things considered. And while turning down Penn State was a mistake, who's to say Penn State would not have left (like Miami and VT and WVU did)?

The problem is not how the Big East was run, but the product it sold (basketball). once that product got surpassed by another (football), there was little the Big East could do. They can't control basketball's popularity and they never had any real shot at football kingpins (like Michigan, Ohio State, Alabama, Florida, LSU, Texas, etc...). They are similar to any other surpassed technology. Their product has been surpassed, but unlike in business they can't just change the product.

There was time to change the product (or, in this case, add additional product lines), but that time has long since passed.