The Audible: The Worst Conference Realignment Decisions of All Time | The Boneyard

The Audible: The Worst Conference Realignment Decisions of All Time

Drew

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1. Rutgers/MD to B1G
2. Tulane leaves SEC
3. UMass joins MAC
4. South Carolina leaves ACC
5. Big 12 doing nothing

Talk starts at around the 9:30 mark and goes until about 27 mins. Pretty interesting listen if you get a chance.
 
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1. Rutgers/MD to B1G
2. Tulane leaves SEC
3. UMass joins MAC
4. South Carolina leaves ACC
5. Big 12 doing nothing

Talk starts at around the 9:30 mark and goes until about 27 mins. Pretty interesting listen if you get a chance.

The only one I have a problem with is Maryland. The ACC, while overall a decent academic conference has been slipping. Maryland fits the Big profile academically. In fact, from this angle (not athletics) I laugh at the The ACC gaining a glorified community college and losing an outstanding research institution
 
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Here's the article that they are talking about. Nary a mention of UConn - more about how critical football is to realignment. DUH!!!




Top 5 worst college realignment decisions of all time
Is South Carolina leaving the ACC the worst conference move of all time, as Bob Ryan says?
NCAABy Kevin McGuire on March 27, 2017
ACCBig 12Big TenBob RyanRutgers Scarlet KnightsSECSouth Carolina Gamecocks

4
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heading to the Final Four. With Frank Martin’s program reaching this level never experienced before in school history and so close to a surprise national championship nobody would have seen coming even with a Gray’s Sports Almanac from the future, there are going to be so many opinions and thoughts about the South Carolina program and athletics department.

They have earned this opportunity to shine in the spotlight, but that also means they are now open to taking shots that will come from a flame thrower for one reason or another.


On Monday, noted sportswriter Bob Ryan touched a nerve with some when he took to Twitter to offer his comment on South Carolina’s decision in 1971 to leave the ACC.


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Bob Ryan @GlobeBobRyan

Lots of dumb moves, but So Car exiting ACC #1 dumbest. Simple geography, let alone common sports culture, tells you where they belong.

12:59 PM - 27 Mar 2017 · Fairfield, CT
  • This was a confusing opinion to digest for many, considering South Carolina ended up moving from one conference with common sense geographical ties in the ACC for one that today actually has more common sense geographical connections in the SEC. While the SEC added schools like Texas A&M and Missouri, the ACC has continued to move north with the additions of Boston College, Syracuse, and Pittsburgh. Simple geography? That seems to be an advantage in the SEC for the Gamecocks today. The sports culture at South Carolina also seems to fall in line with the SEC crowd as well.

So what is Ryan talking about? Well, it isn’t money.


Follow
Bob Ryan @GlobeBobRyan

You guys are talking money. I understand the business. I'm talking common sense. And why So Car left. It wasn't about the $$$ then.

1:02 PM - 27 Mar 2017 · Fairfield, CT
  • Why did South Carolina leave the ACC? It all boils down to differences in opinions over recruiting regulations and the influence carried by schools in the state of North Carolina. Basically, South Carolina didn’t like the direction the ACC appeared to be going and split. It took a while to land back on their feet in the SEC, and perhaps that held South Carolina back for a while. If that is the point Ryan is attempting to make, that may be a fair assessment. Regardless, given how things have turned out over the years, is Ryan’s claim that South Carolina’s decision to leave the ACC really sitting on top of the list of all-time worst realignment decisions?

Well, actually, it might be higher than you initially think.


PISCATAWAY, NJ – NOVEMBER 20: Big Ten Commissioner Jim Delany makes his opening remarks during a press conference announcing that Rutgers University is joining the Big Ten Conference on November 20, 2012 at the Hale Center in Piscataway, New Jersey. (Photo by Elsa/Getty Images)
1. Big Ten adds Rutgers (and Maryland)
When the Big Ten announced it was inviting Rutgers and Maryland to the conference, there were mixed opinions. There was a clear push to expand the conference in an eastward direction, but options like Georgia Tech, North Carolina, Virginia, Virginia Tech, Syracuse, and Pittsburgh were either non-existent or too far-fetched or too late to discuss. Instead, the Big Ten offered an escape from a financial burden to Maryland and added on Rutgers to come up with a 14-team conference that would allow for a reworking of the division lineup. In the case of Rutgers, the push to get the Big Ten brand as close to the New York market was complete, regardless of how valuable that NYC market really is.

But could the Big Ten have managed to cut a slice of the Big Apple without Rutgers? Does Rutgers really bring that much value to the conference? Was Rutgers really the key to working out a deal with the New York Yankees and the Pinstripe Bowl? That is doubtful at best, because the Big Ten and Yankees could have just as easily worked out a way to make a deal for more money with or without Rutgers, and odds are they would have. Rutgers has pretty much been a hot mess and a laughing stock since joining the Big Ten. But that Big Ten Network money sure is worth it!


NEW ORLEANS, LA – SEPTEMBER 24: Head coach Willie Fritz of the Tulane Green Wave reacts during the second half of a game against the Louisiana-Lafayette Ragin Cajuns at Yulman Stadium on September 24, 2016 in New Orleans, Louisiana. (Photo by Jonathan Bachman/Getty Images)
2. Tulane leaves SEC
The problem with Ryan’s assertion that South Carolina leaving the ACC was the biggest mistake in conference changes is over the years is it’s not even the worst decision by a school to leave what would become a power conference. Tulane was a charter member of the SEC in 1933, but the school made the decision to leave the conference in 1964 because of a fundamental difference in opinion regarding scholarship limits. Tulane (and Georgia Tech, who joined the ACC) wanted scholarship restrictions to be limited to 140 between football and basketball, but the rest of the SEC was not willing to place a cap. With that being the case, Tulane took off for football independence until the formation of Conference USA in 1996.

Had Tulane stuck around and remained in the SEC, who knows where it would be today. Would Tulane be on the same level as LSU? The world may never know.


HADLEY, MA – SEPTEMBER 17: Jalen Williams #80 of the Massachusetts Minutemen makes a touchdown reception during the second quarter against the FIU Golden Panthers at Warren McGuirk Alumni Stadium on September 17, 2016 in Hadley, Massachusetts. (Photo by Tim Bradbury/Getty Images)
3. UMass joining the MAC in football
Not so long ago the MAC filled out its football operations by having Temple as an associate member. That created some balance issues with the conference and it was decided to add UMass after the Minutemen made the move up to the FBS. That was supposed to be a bit of an east coast pairing for Temple, until the Owls flew the coop and headed back to their roots in the Big East, soon to be the American Athletic Conference. UMass hung on in the MAC until the end of 2015 season, when the conference finally cut the bait and left UMass stranded in the world of FBS football and no conference to call home. If UConn wasn’t going to get an invite to a power conference, UMass stood no chance.

The Minutemen continue to move forward in hopes of perhaps one day getting a conference to come calling. Until then, there are some hoping the school will consider going the Idaho route and drop back down to the FCS.


NEW YORK, NY – MARCH 26: Head coach Frank Martin of the South Carolina Gamecocks celebrates by cutting down the net after defeating the Florida Gators with a score of 77 to 70 to win the 2017 NCAA Men’s Basketball Tournament East Regional at Madison Square Garden on March 26, 2017 in New York City. (Photo by Elsa/Getty Images)
4. Bob Ryan was close. South Carolina leaving the ACC
If we criticize Tulane for leaving the SEC over disputes regarding scholarship limitations, then South Carolina should be fair game for why they left the ACC as well. The difference, of course, is South Carolina landed on its feet by getting into the SEC and reaping the benefits of the conference’s annual revenue shares that continue to rise every year. Tulane could have had that too if they waited things out, and maybe if Tulane stuck around there would be no room for South Carolina in the first place. Landing in the SEC is not a bad alternative, but it took a very long time for that to become a possibility, which is why South Carolina lands here.


HOUSTON, TX – NOVEMBER 17: Head coach Bobby Petrino of the Louisville Cardinals on the sidelines against the Houston Cougars in the third quarter at TDECU Stadium on November 17, 2016 in Houston, Texas. Houston Cougars won 36 to 10. (Photo by Thomas B. Shea/Getty Images)
5. The Big 12 dragging its feet and leading on any number of schools in the process
The Big 12 ultimately deciding to stick with a 10-member conference last fall after teasing the idea of expansion is a perfectly fine decision. I have always felt that expansion for the sake of expansion is not a wise strategy, even if it results in the addition of a conference championship game. Of course, the NCAA made a ruling that would allow the Big 12 to hold a conference title game in football if it wanted even with 10 members, so the “need” to expand was eliminated. Even if the conference did expand, that’s just at least two more schools to split the revenue with, and the numbers just didn’t make financial sense for the Big 12, depending upon the source of projections and estimates.

So evaluating all options for possible changes made perfect sense and was fair. Making schools like Houston, Cincinnati, UCF and how many other schools think they may actually have a chance to join the conference for as long as the Big 12 did was just not right.
 

Jimbo

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I have always felt that expansion for the sake of expansion is not a wise strategy, even if it results in the addition of a conference championship game. Of course, the NCAA made a ruling that would allow the Big 12 to hold a conference title game in football if it wanted even with 10 members, so the “need” to expand was eliminated. Even if the conference did expand, that’s just at least two more schools to split the revenue with, and the numbers just didn’t make financial sense for the Big 12, depending upon the source of projections and estimates.
Mr. McGuire needs to have someone explain to him the meaning of the words "pro" and "rata."
 
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Why did South Carolina leave the ACC? It all boils down to differences in opinions over recruiting regulations and the influence carried by schools in the state of North Carolina. Basically, South Carolina didn’t like the direction the ACC appeared to be going and split. It took a while to land back on their feet in the SEC, and perhaps that held South Carolina back for a while. If that is the point Ryan is attempting to make, that may be a fair assessment. Regardless, given how things have turned out over the years, is Ryan’s claim that South Carolina’s decision to leave the ACC really sitting on top of the list of all-time worst realignment decisions?
Kevin could be a little more explanatory on why South Carolina left the ACC. The recruiting regulations had to do with academic standards. The ACC had higher academic standards than the NCAA at the time, and the USC football coach Paul Dietzel was recruiting football players that would not qualify academically to play in the ACC. The ACC would not lower the academic standards to allow Paul Dietzel to recruit those players, so he talked USC into leaving the conference.
 

Fishy

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South Carolina should have hung in there - the ACC threw academic standards, the rule book and even the need to attend classes right out the window in more recent days.
 
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Rutgers put a false salve on the B1G's desire to get into the NYC market. No one in NYC gives a rat's ass about an NJ school that loses at everything except apparently lacrosse this year. However, they did add the almighty cable boxes. BUT - when all is said and done the Deans and Presidents decide, not the ADs and both Rutty and Maryland are AAU schools and UConn is not as of yet. NJ cable boxes and AAU status doomed us before we ever got started.
 
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South Carolina should have hung in there - the ACC threw academic standards, the rule book and even the need to attend classes right out the window in more recent days.

Sure thing - South Carolina is like Harvard compared to Louisville...
 
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Sure thing - South Carolina is like Harvard compared to Louisville...
Louisville is a mediocre school academically, no more, no less. Not sure what everyones obsession is with trashing L'ville. I mean Uconn does not dazzle, yes they are above average but to pretend like L'ville is some god awful place academically compared to Uconn is just silly. Plus considering the absolutely insane (and sky rocketing) tuition costs, is a pretty good value (though almost all american UNI is overpriced these days).
 
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Louisville is a mediocre school academically, no more, no less. Not sure what everyones obsession is with trashing L'ville. I mean UConn does not dazzle, yes they are above average but to pretend like L'ville is some god awful place academically compared to UConn is just silly. Plus considering the absolutely insane (and sky rocketing) tuition costs, is a pretty good value (though almost all american UNI is overpriced these days).


I won't argue with you because of the inherent problem in arguing with your type. Therefore, troll away...
 
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Oh how cute, you are "THE TYPE" that thinks that anyone who disagrees with you is automatically a "troll". Ya, I agree, it is useless to talk with "your type", actually....Go prove to me how L'ville is just so awful because by nearly any real metric they are perfectly average but apparently saying they are average is "trolling". Right.

Btw, you do not know my type, so nice try but No.
 
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Oh how cute, you are "THE TYPE" that thinks that anyone who disagrees with you is automatically a "troll". Ya, I agree, it is useless to talk with "your type", actually....Go prove to me how L'ville is just so awful because by nearly any real metric they are perfectly average but apparently saying they are average is "trolling". Right.

Btw, you do not know my type, so nice try but No.

The "type" I refer to is an "idiot". You see I know better then to argue with an idiot because they tend to drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience. So, I signing off...
 
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None of the examples given were truly bad decisions if you view them from the perspective of when they occurred, and without decades of hindsight to reevaluate them.

USCe leaving The ACC? They disagreed with academic requirements put forth at the time so they left. Pretty cut and dry.

UMD & Rutgers to The B1G? Both fit the academic and university profile of the conference. One has a great all around AD, and the other is Rutgers LOL. That said as bad as The Scarlet Knights are athletically, they did help grease the wheels with NYC Cable companies and continue to bring in boatloads of revenue from their own state's cable subscribers.

Tulane leaving The SEC? Makes perfect sense. Tulane is a small private academic school that got tired of trying to compete with programs like UT and Alabama that had low academic standards and 150 kids on football scholarships. Once again perspective is needed. The SEC then was not THE S-E-C, S-E-C, S-E-C that it is today.

UMASS joining The MAC? 1) Who cares? 2) Where the Hell else were they supposed to go? Their mistake was going up to FBS from FCS at all. There is zero benefit to UMASS going FBS. Their fans don't care, their expenses probably doubled, and they have a .0001 % chance of ever being competitive. At best they can hope to earn a paycheck by being a few teams' body bag game each year. They should be a part of that awful conference with Villanova, Delaware, and James Madison that Zizoo or whatever his name is keeps pumping. IN THE FCS.

IMO there are really only two decisions that reverberate as being massive blunders IMO.

1)Keeping PSU out of The Big East for political/economic reasons. The Big East was always a bit of a Frankenstein's Monster, however its fatal flaw was not understanding what the future of televised sports could become, and where the money was in that equation. JMO but I believe that if The Big East was made up today of BC, UCONN, Cuse, RU, Pitt, PSU, Temple, WVU, VPI, Miami, USF, & UL with non football members Nova, Gtown, SJU, & Providence (sorry Seton Hall) it would not only still exist, but be among the highest paid conferences today.

2)The Big 12 not expanding. The Big 12 conducts the CR Version of The Bachelor only to decide in the end "Nah We Good." If their true goal was sustaining the conference long term as opposed to simply blowing the thing up in a few years, then they failed miserably. There were any number of schools that could have brought something to the table for them, and got the Big 12 back to you know 12 teams. That said they did nothing, Now the world watches and waits to see what happens when their current media deal ends.
 
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Louisville is a mediocre school academically, no more, no less. Not sure what everyones obsession is with trashing L'ville. I mean UConn does not dazzle, yes they are above average but to pretend like L'ville is some god awful place academically compared to UConn is just silly. Plus considering the absolutely insane (and sky rocketing) tuition costs, is a pretty good value (though almost all american UNI is overpriced these days).
UConn is about 100 spots ahead of Louisville academically. That's kind of a big difference.
 
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Louisville has few academic attributes and lags far behind the rest of their conference...but as a sports program they ain't bad...

Football again finished Top 25, Heisman winner, BB added a couple of tourney credits, baseball currently ranked #2 by Baseball America.


They filled a need...as the Stones sang...you can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, well, you can get what you need.

That next add will not be subject to that same need since the conference seems stabilized and a network is on the way....If the Irish ever get off of the pot, it will be UConn as #16...

Makes network sense.
 
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I'd have to put the Big East turning down Penn St in 82 on this list. The BE could very well still be a thriving all sports conference if they get the one additional vote they needed.
 

SubbaBub

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PSU only would have made a difference in the BE if the FB schools spilt before 2000. Instead or taking Miami, VT, and, BC the ACC would have taken PSU, Miami, and VT. Or they would have joined the B1G at some point anyway maybe even 1994 like they did.
 
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PSU only would have made a difference in the BE if the FB schools spilt before 2000. Instead or taking Miami, VT, and, BC the ACC would have taken PSU, Miami, and VT. Or they would have joined the B1G at some point anyway maybe even 1994 like they did.
That could be but it's hard to predict just how that could have changed the landscape. Perhaps FSU joins Penn St and Miami in the BE, UCONN and Villinova turn Div one and Maryland leaves the ACC for the BE. At some point the bball only schools would have had to been jettisoned. But if that gets done early enough the great NE football conference could have happened.
 
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That could be but it's hard to predict just how that could have changed the landscape. Perhaps FSU joins Penn St and Miami in the BE, UConn and Villinova turn Div one and Maryland leaves the ACC for the BE. At some point the bball only schools would have had to been jettisoned. But if that gets done early enough the great NE football conference could have happened.
Penn State
Miami
FSU
UConn
Nova
BC
Cuse
Pitt
WVU
MD
____
VT
Temple
Rutgers
Cincy
Ville
Navy
 
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Louisville is a mediocre school academically, no more, no less. Not sure what everyones obsession is with trashing L'ville. I mean UConn does not dazzle, yes they are above average but to pretend like L'ville is some god awful place academically compared to UConn is just silly. Plus considering the absolutely insane (and sky rocketing) tuition costs, is a pretty good value (though almost all american UNI is overpriced these days).

At #168, Louisville ranks 2nd worst academically of all P5 schools according to U.S. News. Only WVU is lower.

UConn is #57 and would be in the top-third of all P5 schools.

4-year graduation rate - UConn: 67%, L'Ville: 25%.

Cost and value are certainly factors in higher education, particularly given the rate at which tuition has been rising. One could make a reasonable argument that pursuing a degree at a community college (many of which are quite excellent) may be a better value for many students than paying full freight at a school like Columbia, which costs over $70k a year (including room, board, and expenses). But that's totally different than saying that Columbia is comparable to a community college from a purely academic perspective.
 

CL82

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Louisville is a mediocre school academically, no more, no less. Not sure what everyones obsession is with trashing L'ville. I mean UConn does not dazzle, yes they are above average but to pretend like L'ville is some god awful place academically compared to UConn is just silly. Plus considering the absolutely insane (and sky rocketing) tuition costs, is a pretty good value (though almost all american UNI is overpriced these days).
One of these kids is different than the others. (Rankings are from 2014 release from the ACC, but I updated those in the second paragraph to show their 2016 rankings.)

Duke boasts the league’s highest ranking at eighth and is joined in the Top 30 by Notre Dame (16th), Virginia (23rd), Wake Forest (27th) and North Carolina (30th). Also in the Top 50 are Boston College (31st), Georgia Tech (35th) and Miami (48th).

Beyond the top 50 are Syracuse at 60th, followed by Clemson (66th) Pitt (68th), Virginia Tech (74th), Florida State (92nd) and NC State (95th in 2014, 2016 rank is no longer published) and Louisville (171st).
(There are over a hundred schools ranked between UConn and Louisville. The quality of the academics isn't close, but you knew that right?)
 
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