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Message: [QUOTE="Glenn, post: 5254100, member: 3538"] I am sorry. But this idea that "winners aren't defined by wins" is garbage. Winner have to have the wins--there are lots of gracious nice people that work very hard and are not successful--they are not winners, though they derve to be honored and respected. There are also a lot of winners that are jerks, and we should not honor them, but to say they are not winners is just trying to redefine "winner" to include only people we respect [/QUOTE]