That committee is all over the place

[champs99and04]

Mark Hollis is on CBS right now dodging questions like he's walking a minefield. I'm surprised he hasn't soaked through his suit right now.

I wanted to call it rigged, but that felt strong. So I'll just say that, as I watched the selection show, I had that sick feeling you get when you know something is corrupt but you can't quite prove it. This is fishy on a number of levels:

1. Pick a God damn criteria and stick with it. Is it RPI? Is it BPI? Is it KenPom? Because...

2. Can we stop pretending that these distinctions - top 25 wins, top 50 wins, etc. - are anything but arbitrary cut-offs to feed the P5 beast? Because if you don't weigh them as percentages rather than raw numbers, the criteria cannot be standardized. Which leads me to...

3. Any criteria that relies on a subjective 'body of work' component is vulnerable to favoring schools from big conferences that get exposure and have more opportunities - and more opportunities at home - to rack up big wins.

There is no holistic measure that validates this process as remotely sound, and the reason one will not be entertained is because there is fear it will hurt the bottom line. There is so much contradiction and hypocrisy within the bracket just put forward that it would take hours to unearth. A few stick out:

1. SMU on the six line. That's preposterous. They are #11 in the country on KenPom and #12 in RPI. The only thing they lack is the 'marquee' win that they never had the chance to get. Unless, of course, we consider Cincinnati a marquee win, which would be crazy. Fine, though. If RPI doesn't matter, surely UCLA did better than a three seed...

2. But wait, the Bruins - whose RPI was deflated by their inability to game the system - lost only four games all season. They won @ Kentucky, vs. Michigan, @ Arizona, and vs. Oregon. Maybe it's because of their low KenPom ranking that they're a three instead of a team like Louisville, who was just 4-7 against the top 25. But wait...

3. Eighth ranked Wichita State is a ten (!!!) seed. Tenth ranked Kansas is a one seed. Or Arizona, who ranks 20th in KenPom, getting a two seed. That dichotomy is hard to fathom, so I think based on that alone we can say they didn't use it at all. Why then...

4. Is Rhode Island an 11 seed? 28th in RPI, 3-1 against the top 25, top 30 in BPI, marquee win over Cincinnati, losses by a combined four points to top 50 Dayton.

5. Cincinnati was drilled into the six spot even before their loss today despite ranking 12th in RPI and having beaten the big 12 champ at their place, Xavier before they lost their star PG, and accruing zero bad losses.

The most infuriating part, perhaps, is how they 'coincidentally' pit all of these small brand, sleeping giants against each other. First Wichita State will play Dayton, and if they're lucky enough to survive that, they'll get Kentucky. Or how about that second round match-up they set up between the 11th and 13th best team sin the country in Baylor and SMU? Oregon beat ONE top 50 team away from home all season (#42 USC) and they got a three seed

They'll have an answer for everything, which is the point. You can afford that when your criteria is as fluid as it is, to the point that questioning is as futile as questioning why a coach kicked a field goal instead of went for it on fourth down. "Oh well that team won a lot of road games. That team had some great wins. That team had a great RPI. That team is way up there on the advanced metrics."

 

[champs99and04]

Bilas and Jay Williams have me wanting to strangle my television. "There aren't basketball people on the committee, they need help seeing."

The idea that "basketball people" know more than the guys in Vegas is just so grossly egotistical that it makes me want to hurl.

 

[whaler11]

Bilas and Jay Williams have me wanting to strangle my television. "There aren't basketball people on the committee, they need help seeing."

The idea that "basketball people" know more than the guys in Vegas is just so grossly egotistical that it makes me want to hurl.

Bilas was driving me insane on the pre-show saying Duke deserved the one seed over Gonzaga. He decided Gonzaga would only get it because these administrators have to go talk to other mid-major administrators.

11-7 in conference. 11-7.

 

[BUConn10]

The whole term "P5" exists for one reason only.

To mitigate the risk assumed by big time programs, and increase their odds for year to year success.

No more pesky "cinderellas" and "Boise State's" of the world stealing opportunities from major programs of each respective sport. When the majority of teams in D1 start each season's 0-0 record with almost no way of reaching the post season before the first game is even played it only gives a boost to the power teams.

Seeing VANDERBILT getting talk as a tourney team all year long because of some magic hocus pocus math that somehow made them #1 in RPI as if that means anything other than "they got crushed by a lot of really good teams" tells me the system is broken, but not for them for us. We were just unfortunate in not being proactive and being caught on the outside when this paradigm shift took place.

 

[gtcam]

What cracks me up is that they made sure none of the ACC teams will see each other until late in the game
Remember when the OBE were having to meet conference foes in the earliest of rounds?
They are beating the "woe on Syracuse" crap to death - granted I despise Cuse and cannot say that USC deserves it more than Cuse but to lose to St Johns by 30 at home and to BC away and to win so few road games is very telling.
Poor JB the Picker, his team was crying - too freak'n bad - they didn't deserve to be in last year

On another note - the AAC - especially SMU got screwed - par usual BUT UConn proved you can start low and finish high
I filled out my bracket for the ESPN contest and have SMU on the championship game vs Kansas.
SMU has lost 1 game since November - to Cinci

 

[polycom]

At least everyone agrees that the committee did a terrible job.

 

[SubbaBub]

1. Pick a God damn criteria and stick with it. Is it RPI? Is it BPI? Is it KenPom? Because...

2. Can we stop pretending that these distinctions - top 25 wins, top 50 wins, etc. - are anything but arbitrary cut-offs to feed the P5 beast? Because if you don't weigh them as percentages rather than raw numbers, the criteria cannot be standardized. Which leads me to...

3. Any criteria that relies on a subjective 'body of work' component is vulnerable to favoring schools from big conferences that get exposure and have more opportunities - and more opportunities at home - to rack up big wins.

The irony that is Lord Bilas used to preach this every year and then this morning he and and the rest of the crows were trumpeting the value of raw Top 50 win totals and defending it with the ACC and B1G should be penalized for hogging all the Top 50 teams. (Actually they can, CR).

 

[kobe]

BTW to all the people that worship the KenPom, Cincinnati was seeded #22 overall and are #22 in KenPom.

 

[ecasadoSBU]

What bothers me the most is that all of you complaining here truly don't give a crap that the system is broken. What really bothers you is that UConn, the AAC and everyone outside of the P6 is caught in this crappy situation. Its all hypocrisy... and that's why the system wont change. If UConn gets invited to the ACC it will be the last time you see a thread like this one. Cut the bullsh.. and keep moving

 

[auror]

The most infuriating part, perhaps, is how they 'coincidentally' pit all of these small brand, sleeping giants against each other. First Wichita State will play Dayton, and if they're lucky enough to survive that, they'll get Kentucky. Or how about that second round match-up they set up between the 11th and 13th best team sin the country in Baylor and SMU?

Agree with your whole post except this part.

It's impossible to create a bracket without things like this. There's 0% chance they pit tough mid majors against each other intentionally. There's 6 mid major ADs and 4 major ADs on the committee.

The larger issue as you outlined is that seeding is rigged against strong mid majors, so they tend to clump in the 5-13 range, so there is a much higher probability of these types of games happening. It's a symptom of the problem, not a separate problem.

 

[94Husky]

It's been somewhat obvious for years but this year just really proves that it's all about the P6 in hoops. 36 at large teams, and what, 4 non P6? Dayton gets a stupidly seeded Wichita St? Two others play each other (VCU, St Mary's)? Cincy gets a play in winner which is somewhat reasonable although if they are in a P6 conference you know they get a 4 or 5 seed. Vanderbilt? Seriously? Guess losses no longer matter. Wake Forest does not belong either. Give me Illinois St and Monmouth - equally as worthy and much more entertaining for various reasons. NCAA and the committee are a total joke - very tempting not to watch with no Huskies - then quickly remember there are some 'investment opportunities'.

 

[Devland]

What bothers me the most is that all of you complaining here truly don't give a crap that the system is broken. What really bothers you is that UConn, the AAC and everyone outside of the P6 is caught in this crappy situation. Its all hypocrisy... and that's why the system wont change. If UConn gets invited to the ACC it will be the last time you see a thread like this one. Cut the bullsh.. and keep moving

P-6? It's P-5.

 

[whaler11]

BTW to all the people that worship the KenPom, Cincinnati was seeded #22 overall and are #22 in KenPom.

I haven't seen many gripe about Cinci's seed...

Worship is strong - but if you want one piece of data on team to tell you how good they are - that's the one you want.

 

[whaler11]

P-6? It's P-5.

70% of the Big East is in. In basketball it's 6 power leagues.

 

[ecasadoSBU]

P-6? It's P-5.

I think its fair to say that the Big East getting treated as major conference. 7 bids today out of 10 teams... the highest percentage of bids among all conferences in the country

 

[whaler11]

Agree with your whole post except this part.

It's impossible to create a bracket without things like this. There's 0% chance they pit tough mid majors against each other intentionally. There's 6 mid major ADs and 4 major ADs on the committee.

The larger issue as you outlined is that seeding is rigged against strong mid majors, so they tend to clump in the 5-13 range, so there is a much higher probability of these types of games happening. It's a symptom of the problem, not a separate problem.

Depending how you want to define mid major there were either 3 or 4 at large bids. If you don't count the AAC - you've got Dayton, St Mary's and VCU.

St Mary's and VCU play each other and Dayton is a 6.5 point underdog to their 10 seed Wichita State - who is probably the single most underseeded team in the history of the 64 team tourney.

Now you can pretend that's an accident if you like.

If you want to count the AAC - they couldn't be bothered to include their title game
in the bracket and stuck them both with 11s coming off wins.

Weird how it happens every year. Enjoy Kentucky in the second round again Wichita!

 

[superjohn]

Bilas was driving me insane on the pre-show saying Duke deserved the one seed over Gonzaga. He decided Gonzaga would only get it because these administrators have to go talk to other mid-major administrators.

11-7 in conference. 11-7.

I've always liked Bilas but he's a jackarse for saying that.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

I would say just go to a standardized system like the old BCS and pick the at large that way but you know that would be rigged too.

 

[superjohn]

What bothers me the most is that all of you complaining here truly don't give a crap that the system is broken. What really bothers you is that UConn, the AAC and everyone outside of the P6 is caught in this crappy situation. Its all hypocrisy... and that's why the system wont change. If UConn gets invited to the ACC it will be the last time you see a thread like this one. Cut the bullsh.. and keep moving

Farck off, just because that's the way you see things it doesn't mean other people do.

 

[August_West]

What bothers me the most is that all of you complaining here truly don't give a crap that the system is broken. What really bothers you is that UConn, the AAC and everyone outside of the P6 is caught in this crappy situation. Its all hypocrisy... and that's why the system wont change. If UConn gets invited to the ACC it will be the last time you see a thread like this one. Cut the bullsh.. and keep moving

What the hell is P6?

There is P5.

Who do you consider the 6th?

 

[whaler11]

I've always liked Bilas but he's a jackarse for saying that.

Agreed I like him too - that's why I noticed.

 

[Devland]

70% of the Big East is in. In basketball it's 6 power leagues.

But with the high seeds (top 16) it is 4 ACC, 3 Big 12, and 3 PAC12. 2 SEC, 2 NBE, 1 Big10 and 1WCC. I think people overrate leagues by the number of team they get in. 4 of the New Big East seeds are below 8 seeds.

 

[whaler11]

Maybe 20 people outside of the schools pay attention to this - but the committee drives me absolutely crazy with who they send to Dayton as 16 seeds.

I get they can't send two HBCUs to Dayton - but how they send NCCU and not Texas Southern is baffling.

South Dakota State not going while New Orleans does is also wrong but not as crazy as sending NCCU over Texas Southern.

 

[whaler11]

But with the high seeds (top 16) it is 4 ACC, 3 Big 12, and 3 PAC12. 2 SEC, 2 NBE, 1 Big10 and 1WCC. I think people overrate leagues by the number of team they get in. 4 of the New Big East seeds are below 8 seeds.

They have the defending champ, the overall #1 seed and 7 bids. They have 2 more at large bids than every other non P-5 conference combined. They don't have any teams that got screwed seeding wise.

How are they not a power basketball conference?

 

[uconnbill]

The Vandy pick reminds me of a Georgia pick 10 or so years ago because they had a great RPI but didn't win any of them, like Vandy. I think they are one and done.
SMU should have been no lower than a 4 seed but it is typical of overrating certain conferences.