Ten best programs in the country right now?

[champs99and04]

With two championships in four years, three final fours out of the last six, four titles in sixteen years, a young head coach who is recruiting well, and a brand new practice facility, I think most of us can agree that UConn is the best program in the country. If you believe there is an other program that is superior, that's fine. Otherwise, this thread is more about sorting out programs 2-10. Which program poses the biggest threat to the throne? How far has Duke fallen, if at all? Is Syracuse a top ten program? Interested to hear what people think.

 

[Yankees32123]

Kentucky is up there with us. As much as I hate to say it, and I think we have the slight edge, Kentucky has been in the Final Four 3 out of the last 4 years, with one championship, and has established one of the most dominating recruiting systems in the history of college basketball. As much as I cant stand the squid and what he is doing to college basketball, his system seems to be working. Though we are beating them in the tourney (which gives us the edge) they are still making deep runs year in and year out, while Duke and Kansas are using the same recruiting system and not faring well in the tourney. UConn and Kentucky are #1 and #2 as far as current programs go, and there is not a close 3rd. Maybe Michigan State with all of their Final Four appearances. The rest of the top 10 gets filled out with Duke (2010 championship and recruiting success), Kansas, Arizona, Wichita State, Florida, Louisville, and then maybe Syracuse. You can argue over the order of the last 8.

 

[RegisteredUconn]

Earlier this year I posted on the best programs based on a measurement very similar to that used by the NCAA to dole out tournament cash to the respective conferences, namely the number of games a team plays in the tournament. Under my scoring a team is awarded 1 point for making the tournament, 2 points for making it to the second round, 3 points for making the Sweet Sixteen, 4 points for making the Elite Eight, 5 points for making the Final Four, 6 points for making the championship game, and 7 points for winning the championship. This scoring rewards consistency (which hurts UConn which, in addition to the championships and Final Four has missed the tournament entirely twice and gone out in the first round once) more than the spectacular.

If measuring over the last four years (when UConn won twice) the top ten teams are (points are in parens):
1. Kentucky (18)
2. Florida (17)
3. Louisville (16)
4T. UConn & Kansas (15)
6. Syracuse (13)
7. North Carolina (12)
8T. Michigan State & Arizona (11)
10. Duke (9)

If measuring over that last six years (when UConn went to its 3rd Final Four) the top ten are:
1T. Kentucky & Michigan State
3. Louisville (21)
4T. UConn & Kansas (20)
6T. Duke, North Carolina & Syracuse (19)
9. Florida (18)
10. Arizona (14)

 

[OkaForPrez]

Earlier this year I posted on the best programs based on a measurement very similar to that used by the NCAA to dole out tournament cash to the respective conferences, namely the number of games a team plays in the tournament. Under my scoring a team is awarded 1 point for making the tournament, 2 points for making it to the second round, 3 points for making the Sweet Sixteen, 4 points for making the Elite Eight, 5 points for making the Final Four, 6 points for making the championship game, and 7 points for winning the championship. This scoring rewards consistency (which hurts UConn which, in addition to the championships and Final Four has missed the tournament entirely twice and gone out in the first round once) more than the spectacular.

If measuring over the last four years (when UConn won twice) the top ten teams are (points are in parens):
1. Kentucky (18)
2. Florida (17)
3. Louisville (16)
4T. UConn & Kansas (15)
6. Syracuse (13)
7. North Carolina (12)
8T. Michigan State & Arizona (11)
10. Duke (9)

If measuring over that last six years (when UConn went to its 3rd Final Four) the top ten are:
1T. Kentucky & Michigan State
3. Louisville (21)
4T. UConn & Kansas (20)
6T. Duke, North Carolina & Syracuse (19)
9. Florida (18)
10. Arizona (14)

I don't think you are rewarding deep post season runs enough, if you still have your workbook try a Fibonacci scoring system (1,2,3,5,8,13,21) and post the results.

 

[KingOPancakes]

I don't think you are rewarding deep post season runs enough, if you still have your workbook try a Fibonacci scoring system (1,2,3,5,8,13,21) and post the results.

I think you're exactly right. In his current scoring system 2 final 4 appearances are worth more than winning a championship. I certainly wouldn't trade last seasons trophy for a couple of FF appearances and bow outs. I have a feeling nobody else would either. Any Butler fans out there to help test my theory?

 

[Walker11]

For me, the no brainers are UK, Kansas, UCONN, Duke, Florida, Louisville and Arizona. Michigan State, Cuse, UNC round up the top 10 but I have Michigan knocking on the door.

 

[RegisteredUconn]

I don't think you are rewarding deep post season runs enough, if you still have your workbook try a Fibonacci scoring system (1,2,3,5,8,13,21) and post the results.

Excellent suggestion! Here are the results using your scoring method.

If measuring over the last four years (when UConn won twice) the top ten teams are (points are in parens):
1. UConn (43)
2. Kentucky (42)
3. Louisville (33)
4T. Kansas & Florida (23)
6. Syracuse (17)
7. North Carolina (14)
8. Arizona (13)
9. Michigan State (12)
10. Duke (10)

If measuring over that last six years (when UConn went to its 3rd Final Four) the top ten are:
1. UConn (51)
2. Kentucky (47)
3. Louisville (39)
4. North Carolina (35)
5. Duke (34)
6. Michigan State (33)
7. Kansas (28)
8. Florida (24)
9. Syracuse (23)
10. Arizona (16)

 

[RegisteredUconn]

Correction to my Fibonacci list. The teams I was considering for top programs went back over 30 years and didn't include Butler. Butler would have been the 7th best over 4 years with 15 points and 7th best over the last 6 years with 29 points. Based on those numbers Butler should be considered a top ten program. Duke would drop out if considering last 4 years and Arizona if considering last 6 years.

 

[amory]

UConn
Kentucky
Louisville
Florida
Michigan State
Arizona
Duke
Kansas
North Carolina
Syracuse

This is off the top of my head. I don't have a fancy scoring system like some of you

 

[intlzncster]

Correction to my Fibonacci list. The teams I was considering for top programs went back over 30 years and didn't include Butler. Butler would have been the 7th best over 4 years with 15 points and 7th best over the last 6 years with 29 points. Based on those numbers Butler should be considered a top ten program. Duke would drop out if considering last 4 years and Arizona if considering last 6 years.

If they still had Brad Stevens, they might have had a shot. But not now.

I like the adjustment in scoring. You should always reward the 'spectacular' over the consistent 'marginally successful'.

 

[intlzncster]

Can't believe the Orange spew ranks so high. The way I have them situated in my head does not jibe with reality. Unfortunate.

 

[RegisteredUconn]

Just for the sake of having a single Top Ten list, I've combined my 4-year and 6-year lists by taking a simple average of the two. This becomes my Top Ten.

1. UConn (47)
2. Kentucky (44.5)
3. Louisville (36)
4. Kansas (25.5)
5. North Carolina (24.5)
6. Florida (23.5)
7. Michigan State (22.5)
8T. Butler & Duke (22)
10. Syracuse (20)

Just for fun, using these top programs, the top conference is easily the ACC with 4 teams and 102.5 total points. How the conferences stack up (teams/points in parens):
1. ACC (4/102.5)
2. Non P5 (2/69)
3. SEC (2/68)
4. B12 (1/25.5)
5. B10 (1/22.5)
6. Pac (0/0)

 

[intlzncster]

Just for the sake of having a single Top Ten list, I've combined my 4-year and 6-year lists by taking a simple average of the two. This becomes my Top Ten.

1. UConn (47)
2. Kentucky (44.5)
3. Louisville (36)
4. Kansas (25.5)
5. North Carolina (24.5)
6. Florida (23.5)
7. Michigan State (22.5)
8T. Butler & Duke (22)
10. Syracuse (20)

That looks like the most accurate representation as well. Butler likely won't be in there going forward without Brad Stevens, but the results were what they were.

 

[Shabazzkets]

Oh man, I hate to be the wet blanket in my very first post. But despite the two championships (which were epic), Ollie, etc., I think we're still a tough sell for "best program in the country" because of our conference affiliation (including the poor TV contract ), the (bogus) argument that our tourney runs were fluky based on the regular seasons that preceded the two championship runs, the inherent recruiting advantages of places like UK, Duke and UNC, and UConn's relatively recent ascension to royalty status.

I think "best programs" have to start with UK, Kansas and Duke. I loathe UK and Duke particularly, but they are what they are: college hoops behemoths. In my mind it would take another 20 years of consistent Top 15 finishes, including multiple conference titles and at least one more national title, before we could be considered the best program in the country.

But we're definitely up there, which itself is an amazing achievement.

 

[KingOPancakes]

Oh man, I hate to be the wet blanket in my very first post. But despite the two championships (which were epic), Ollie, etc., I think we're still a tough sell for "best program in the country" because of our conference affiliation (including the poor TV contract ), the (bogus) argument that our tourney runs were fluky based on the regular seasons that preceded the two championship runs, the inherent recruiting advantages of places like UK, Duke and UNC, and UConn's relatively recent ascension to royalty status.

I think "best programs" have to start with UK, Kansas and Duke. I loathe UK and Duke particularly, but they are what they are: college hoops behemoths. In my mind it would take another 20 years of consistent Top 15 finishes, including multiple conference titles and at least one more national title, before we could be considered the best program in the country.

But we're definitely up there, which itself is an amazing achievement.

In terms of "all-time" best programs, I agree with you. We're in the discussion but outside of the top 3, looking in.

In terms of best programs recently I don't think there's much debate to be had. No other team has had the success we've had in the past 5 seasons, and the conference realignment and recruiting disadvantages only further the point as they were/are roadblocks we've overcome to get to where we are. No other "elite" team has had more thrown at them in the past 5 years and no other "elite" team has had more success. I would say overcoming adversity the way we have is what would make a team the "best program".

 

[CallMeBruce]

I can see an argument to be made that we've been too inconsistent to be the best team, but we're certainly in the middle of the conversation. You see when people talk about the elite programs (people, not pundits), they talk about teams UConn, Kansas, UK, Duke, and then someone like Zona or MSU.

 

[intlzncster]

Last year our run was "flukey" but Kentucky's wasn't? They sucked during the regular season.

 

[Huskies4ever]

I would say overcoming adversity the way we have is what would make a team the "best program".

The "Calhoun Way".

 

[tzznandrew]

In the last decade (arbitrary, and makes us miss our 2004 title):

Titles
UConn: 2 (2011, 2014)
UNC: 2 (2005, 2009)
Florida: 2 (2006, 2007)
Louisville: 1 (2013)
Kentucky: 1 (2012)
Duke: 1 (2010)
Kansas: 1 (2008)

That's your top 7 right there, in some order, I'd suggest.

Looking deeper.

Final Fours
UConn: 3 (2009, 2011, 2014)
Florida: 3 (2006, 2007, 2014)
Kentucky: 3 (2011, 2012, 2014)
Louisville: 3 (2005, 2012, 2013)
Michigan State: 3 (2005, 2009, 2010)
UNC: 3 (2005, 2008, 2009)
UCLA: 3 (2006, 2007, 2008)
Kansas: 2 (2008, 2012)
Ohio State: 2 (2007, 2012)
Butler: 2 (2010, 2011)
Duke: 1 (2010)

Okay...of your teams that have one a title, one of these teams is not like the others...Duke falls to last among title winners. At least it seems so far. Michigan State, UCLA, Ohio State, and Butler all have multiple Final Fours in the last decade. With more titles and equal Final Fours, UNC, UConn, and Florida distinguish themselves from UK and Louisville...although, since our country values recency, I'd probably put UK above UNC since they've done more in the last 5 years. And I'd consider putting UK above Florida as well, since Florida's title's are now 7 years old.

But, what about E8s?

Florida: 6 (2006, 2007, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014)
UNC: 6 (2005, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2011, 2012)
Kentucky: 5 (2005, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2014)
Louisville: 5 (2005, 2008, 2009, 2012, 2013)
UConn: 4 (2006, 2009, 2011, 2014)
Michigan State: 4 (2005, 2009, 2010, 2014)
Kansas: 4 (2007, 2008, 2011, 2012)
Ohio State: 3 (2007, 2012, 2013)
UCLA: 3 (2006, 2007, 2008)
Duke: 2 (2010, 2013)
Butler: 2 (2010, 2011)

So, what does all this tell us? Any discussion of best team of the last decade can't take place without UConn, Florida, UK, UNC, and Louisville. Those are the Top 5. But there's a certain arbitrariness to it: if we expand the window 1 year, UConn has 3 to Florida and UK's 2. If we shrink the window 1 year, UNC falls out of that first tier of teams with multiple titles. It all depends on how far we want to go back.

Ultimately, taking recency and titles primarily into consideration, I go:

UConn
UK
Florida
Louisville
UNC
Kansas
Duke
Michigan State
Ohio State

And, probably pick a team not on this list (Arizona? Syracuse? Michigan?) to serve as the 10th team.

• Butler's lack of success beyond that 2-year window makes them not really worthy to be 10
• UCLA's absence from title contention for the last 6 years or so (since the Westbrook-Love team) means I can't really put them in there comfortably either.
• But, while we all expect great things from Arizona soon, they have to win something, or make the Final Four for the first time since 2001.
• Michigan could have made this list if they guarded the 3 point shooter or took out Louisville.
• Syracuse could have made this list were it not for injuries in 2010 or suspensions in 2012 (two years they may have had the best team).

 

[CL82]

I love that UConn shows so well despite the ban year. That team had the potential to make some noise.

I think Kentucky will be formidable. The Squid has been a threat based on talent alone. This year he'll have talent plus experience. We'll need at least on of the new guards (Purvis?) to be a strong defensive presence to beat them.

 

[Husky68]

Oh man, I hate to be the wet blanket in my very first post. But despite the two championships (which were epic), Ollie, etc., I think we're still a tough sell for "best program in the country" because of our conference affiliation (including the poor TV contract ), the (bogus) argument that our tourney runs were fluky based on the regular seasons that preceded the two championship runs, the inherent recruiting advantages of places like UK, Duke and UNC, and UConn's relatively recent ascension to royalty status.

I think "best programs" have to start with UK, Kansas and Duke. I loathe UK and Duke particularly, but they are what they are: college hoops behemoths. In my mind it would take another 20 years of consistent Top 15 finishes, including multiple conference titles and at least one more national title, before we could be considered the best program in the country.

But we're definitely up there, which itself is an amazing achievement.

So we win this year and have 3 of last 5, not top program? How about again following year and have 4 out of last 6? How about win again following year and have 5 out of last 7? If it takes 20 years to win just 1 more title would be hard pressed to see UConn as best program in country as probably several teams in that time frame would have multiple championships.
Kentucky has 8 championships of which 4 are 1958 and prior and 1 in this century.
Champs this century:
UConn 3
Duke 2
NC 2
Fl 2
Maryland, Fruit, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisville 1

For Fruit, Maryland and Florida those are only championships, ever. Add 2 more years and get Mich State and another UConn.

Right now, its UConn.

 

[UConnSwag11]

1.UCONN
2.UK
3. UL
4. MSU
5. UF
6. Duke
7.KU
8. UVA
9. UNC
10. CUSE

i'm solid on my top 5... the others it doesnt matter to me the order... I also see this all changing drastically in a few years when coach k, roy williams, Boheim, Izzo, Pitino, all retire and have to find successors

 

[UConnSwag11]

i also seeing louisville winning the ACC this year

 

[OkaForPrez]

@tzznandrew You realize that all of your thoughts came out pretty close to @RegisteredUconn 's scoring system right?

1. UConn (47)
2. Kentucky (44.5)
3. Louisville (36)
4. Kansas (25.5)
5. North Carolina (24.5)
6. Florida (23.5)
7. Michigan State (22.5)
8T. Butler & Duke (22)
10. Syracuse (20)

UConn
UK
Florida
Louisville
UNC
Kansas
Duke
Michigan State
Ohio State

Florida got a bump for you because you went back a decade to grab their back to back but its more or less the same.

 

[intlzncster]

In the last decade (arbitrary, and makes us miss our 2004 title):

Titles
UConn: 2 (2011, 2014)
UNC: 2 (2005, 2009)
Florida: 2 (2006, 2007)
Louisville: 1 (2013)
Kentucky: 1 (2012)
Duke: 1 (2010)
Kansas: 1 (2008)

That's your top 7 right there, in some order, I'd suggest.

Looking deeper.

Final Fours
UConn: 3 (2009, 2011, 2014)
Florida: 3 (2006, 2007, 2014)
Kentucky: 3 (2011, 2012, 2014)
Louisville: 3 (2005, 2012, 2013)
Michigan State: 3 (2005, 2009, 2010)
UNC: 3 (2005, 2008, 2009)
UCLA: 3 (2006, 2007, 2008)
Kansas: 2 (2008, 2012)
Ohio State: 2 (2007, 2012)
Butler: 2 (2010, 2011)
Duke: 1 (2010)

Okay...of your teams that have one a title, one of these teams is not like the others...Duke falls to last among title winners. At least it seems so far. Michigan State, UCLA, Ohio State, and Butler all have multiple Final Fours in the last decade. With more titles and equal Final Fours, UNC, UConn, and Florida distinguish themselves from UK and Louisville...although, since our country values recency, I'd probably put UK above UNC since they've done more in the last 5 years. And I'd consider putting UK above Florida as well, since Florida's title's are now 7 years old.

But, what about E8s?

Florida: 6 (2006, 2007, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014)
UNC: 6 (2005, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2011, 2012)
Kentucky: 5 (2005, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2014)
Louisville: 5 (2005, 2008, 2009, 2012, 2013)
UConn: 4 (2006, 2009, 2011, 2014)
Michigan State: 4 (2005, 2009, 2010, 2014)
Kansas: 4 (2007, 2008, 2011, 2012)
Ohio State: 3 (2007, 2012, 2013)
UCLA: 3 (2006, 2007, 2008)
Duke: 2 (2010, 2013)
Butler: 2 (2010, 2011)

So, what does all this tell us? Any discussion of best team of the last decade can't take place without UConn, Florida, UK, UNC, and Louisville. Those are the Top 5. But there's a certain arbitrariness to it: if we expand the window 1 year, UConn has 3 to Florida and UK's 2. If we shrink the window 1 year, UNC falls out of that first tier of teams with multiple titles. It all depends on how far we want to go back.

Ultimately, taking recency and titles primarily into consideration, I go:

UConn
UK
Florida
Louisville
UNC
Kansas
Duke
Michigan State
Ohio State

And, probably pick a team not on this list (Arizona? Syracuse? Michigan?) to serve as the 10th team.

• Butler's lack of success beyond that 2-year window makes them not really worthy to be 10
• UCLA's absence from title contention for the last 6 years or so (since the Westbrook-Love team) means I can't really put them in there comfortably either.
• But, while we all expect great things from Arizona soon, they have to win something, or make the Final Four for the first time since 2001.
• Michigan could have made this list if they guarded the 3 point shooter or took out Louisville.
• Syracuse could have made this list were it not for injuries in 2010 or suspensions in 2012 (two years they may have had the best team).

I prefer to use a 15 yr time frame, as I think that most accurately represents the situation, but who am I to quibble. Nice work.

 

[David 76]

Why is Syracuse making so many top 10 lists here? Because 'Melo played there one year?

 

[gtcam]

Oh man, I hate to be the wet blanket in my very first post. But despite the two championships (which were epic), Ollie, etc., I think we're still a tough sell for "best program in the country" because of our conference affiliation (including the poor TV contract ), the (bogus) argument that our tourney runs were fluky based on the regular seasons that preceded the two championship runs, the inherent recruiting advantages of places like UK, Duke and UNC, and UConn's relatively recent ascension to royalty status.

I think "best programs" have to start with UK, Kansas and Duke. I loathe UK and Duke particularly, but they are what they are: college hoops behemoths. In my mind it would take another 20 years of consistent Top 15 finishes, including multiple conference titles and at least one more national title, before we could be considered the best program in the country.

But we're definitely up there, which itself is an amazing achievement.

Kansas and Duke over UConn??
I don't see that
Going back to 1999, I would take what UConn has done over any team including Kentucky
I'm not being a homer, just realist
No need for 20 years of wait and see - it's here and here to stay

 

[BlueMAB]

UConn
Kentucky
UNC
Duke
Arizona
Michigan St
Louisville
Kansas
UCLA
OSU (edging out Indiana)

Too difficult to rank them, but the top 5 are clearly UConn, Duke, Kentucky, UNC, and Kansas, the rest can quibble about who falls where. Louisville fans will argue they should be in there instead of us, but they're always going to be little brother to Kentucky, so UConn gets the nod.

This top ten is my opinion of how the programs are perceived by CBB fans. Duke and UCLA haven't done much to live up to their hype, but that doesn't matter much. It took Indiana a long time to fall from grace, so it will be with Duke and UCLA.

 

[selles]

With two championships in four years, three final fours out of the last six, four titles in sixteen years, a young head coach who is recruiting well, and a brand new practice facility, I think most of us can agree that UConn is the best program in the country. If you believe there is an other program that is superior, that's fine. Otherwise, this thread is more about sorting out programs 2-10. Which program poses the biggest threat to the throne? How far has Duke fallen, if at all? Is Syracuse a top ten program? Interested to hear what people think.

Interesting topic. Others have construed your post differently, but I'm going to take it to mean 'which are the most dangerous programs right now and into the future'. Not last 10 years, not public perception. Who would you least like to see in your tournament region going forward. "You" means a generic college basketball team, not us - I'd love to see some of these teams.

2. Kentucky (I hate the Squid but the recruiting is what it is)
3. Louisville (Pitino is finally settling down? The dude can coach)
4. Florida (I have a ton of respect for Donovan as a coach and recruiter)
5. Arizona (the recruiting is really good, Miller will probably break through at some point)
6. Kansas (Self is a really good coach, but obviously can be beaten)
7. Michigan (Beilein is an excellent coach in an excellent situation)
8. Iowa State (Maybe Hoiberg goes somewhere, but my bet is he sticks around - very good coach)
9. North Carolina (Roy got lazy for awhile but he's a good coach and he may rally)
10. Syracuse (recruiting is very good and not slowing down despite having a 92 year old coach; also, they are very plucky and gritty)

Honorable Mention: Duke (K hasn't really been able to adjust to his rosters lately, still a good coach); Michigan State (I don't think it was an accident that last year's seniors were first class in forever not to get to a Final 4, but we'll see); UCLA (Alford put together an impressive team last year); Indiana (that fanbase is awesome - someday they'll get a real coach and return to glory); VCU (I know we've been messing with them in the Mack thread, and deservedly so, but Smart's for real - if he leaves they immediately disappear from this list); Texas (imagine how good they could be if they got a coach who could recruit like Barnes and then actually coach up talent).

 

[CallMeBruce]

UConn
Kentucky
UNC
Duke
Arizona
Michigan St
Louisville
Kansas
UCLA
OSU (edging out Indiana)

Too difficult to rank them, but the top 5 are clearly UConn, Duke, Kentucky, UNC, and Kansas, the rest can quibble about who falls where. Louisville fans will argue they should be in there instead of us, but they're always going to be little brother to Kentucky, so UConn gets the nod.

This top ten is my opinion of how the programs are perceived by CBB fans. Duke and UCLA haven't done much to live up to their hype, but that doesn't matter much. It took Indiana a long time to fall from grace, so it will be with Duke and UCLA.

I think that Louisville definitely belongs on that list, probably moreso than Duke, UNC, or Kansas right now.

 

[ctchamps]

I want the NCAA to take away that one NC from UNC where the athletes never went to classes. That would even up the score for the reduction UConn gets from the APR fiasco.

I want UConn to win 2 out of the next four NC's to end this debate once and for all. I really want them to win the next four but I'm a realist.

 

[Tk79]

These are all interesting approaches. There is obviously no "correct" way to rank programs. Too many variables (championships, wins, conference titles, consistency vs greatness, etc) and timeframes are arbitrary - so there are infinite methodologies for doing this. I've tracked lots of these things in an analysis that I've posted here before.

Attached is one version that counts only NCAA tourney performance, with a 50% weighting for titles, 25% weighting on number of Final 4 appearances, 15% on Sweet 16s, and 10% on number of tourney wins. Over the past 20 years, UConn ranks #2 behind Kentucky. Any timeframe between 11-17 years we rank #1. 18-22 years we rank #2. 23-30 years and we rank either #3 or #4.

 

[Tk79]

Here's another version that is more inclusive in terms of criteria. It includes conference titles (tourney and season) and total number of wins. Not surprisingly we don't rank quite as high under this methodology, but still #3 over past 20 years.

 

[intlzncster]

I think that Louisville definitely belongs on that list, probably moreso than Duke, UNC, or Kansas right now.

Kansas has been really good recently though. A Final in 2012 losing to a team with a once in a generation player (Davis). Were favored to win it in 2011. Yes, they 'flamed out' in the elite 8, but they just ran into a very hot VCU team. If they had Joel Embiid at full strength last year, they would have made a good run in the NCAAs.

They just haven't gotten the breaks you need to get to win it all. (UCONN avoiding Louisville last year; Amida's and one).

 

[CallMeBruce]

Kansas has been really good recently though. A Final in 2012 losing to a team with a once in a generation player (Davis). Were favored to win it in 2011. Yes, they 'flamed out' in the elite 8, but they just ran into a very hot VCU team. If they had Joel Embiid at full strength last year, they would have made a good run in the NCAAs.

They just haven't gotten the breaks you need to get to win it all. (UCONN avoiding Louisville last year; Amida's and one).

I'm not saying that Kansas has been lousy, but I think that, in the last few years, Louisville has been better.

 

[intlzncster]

Here's another version that is more inclusive in terms of criteria. It includes conference titles (tourney and season) and total number of wins. Not surprisingly we don't rank quite as high under this methodology, but still #3 over past 20 years.

I'd caveat that one with: the gauntlet of the regular season and tournament significantly skew the results for Big East teams.

 

[intlzncster]

I'm not saying that Kansas has been lousy, but I think that, in the last few years, Louisville has been better.

They do have the and Championship to prove it.

 

[BlueMAB]

I think that Louisville definitely belongs on that list, probably moreso than Duke, UNC, or Kansas right now.

After reading the title of the thread, I agree. "Right now" they belong on there. All time, they are probably #6-8.