Snubbed: The Hall of Fame case for Chamique Holdsclaw

[eebmg]

Interesting HOF case in the Athletic; I guess the case is complicated with her off the court depression / mental health issues which cut her career short at 7 years in the WNBA

Snubbed: The Hall of Fame case for Chamique Holdsclaw

Holdsclaw's dominance remains undeniable: 21 years after graduating, she still is Tennessee's all-time leader in points and rebounds.

theathletic.com

Holdsclaw’s dominance remains undeniable: Twenty-one years after she graduated from Tennessee, she still is its all-time leader with 3,025 points, 1,295 rebounds and 1,233 field goals made. A two-time national player of the year in addition to her three national championships, she was a four-time WBCA All-American, the No. 1 pick by the Washington Mystics in 1999 and the WNBA Rookie of the Year, an Olympic gold medalist in 2000, a six-time WNBA All-Star and, in 2002, the league’s scoring leader.

 

[stwainfan]

A case could be made that she is the greatest women's college player ever. She is in the Women's Basketball Hall Of Fame in Knoxville.

Alphabetical List of Inductees - Women’s Basketball Hall of Fame

Alphabetical List of Inductees Ascending

www.wbhof.com

 

[Plebe]

A case could be made that she is the greatest women's college player ever. She is in the Women's Basketball Hall Of Fame in Knoxville.

Alphabetical List of Inductees - Women’s Basketball Hall of Fame

Alphabetical List of Inductees Ascending

www.wbhof.com

You lost me on that first sentence. By no reasonable measure could she be ranked ahead of Stewie or Taurasi.

The bar for induction to the Naismith is far higher than for the WBHOF. Having said that, I believe Chamique is very deserving and will get in sooner or later.

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

You lost me on that first sentence. By no reasonable measure could she be ranked ahead of Stewie or Taurasi.

The bar for induction to the Naismith is far higher than for the WBHOF. Having said that, I believe Chamique is very deserving and will get in sooner or later.

Well, she clearly is one of the greatest women's college players of all time. That said, I'm not 100% sure she was the greatest up till the time she played, never mind all these years later. But absolutely in the top 10, quite possibly the top 5.

The drawback to her career, as said caused by her troubles, is the lack of a lengthy, glossy career post college. While she was actually successful in her WNBA time, unfortunately, it was short.

Like you, I would hope that she will eventually be recognized.

 

[stwainfan]

You lost me on that first sentence. By no reasonable measure could she be ranked ahead of Stewie or Taurasi.

The bar for induction to the Naismith is far higher than for the WBHOF. Having said that, I believe Chamique is very deserving and will get in sooner or later.

I think we can all agree. She was one of the best ever. 3X NCAA Championships, 4X All American. How many players can say that?

 

[stwainfan]

Well, she clearly is one of the greatest women's college players of all time. That said, I'm not 100% sure she was the greatest up till the time she played, never mind all these years later. But absolutely in the top 10, quite possibly the top 5.

The drawback to her career, as said caused by her troubles, is the lack of a lengthy, glossy career post college. While she was actually successful in her WNBA time, unfortunately, it was short.

Like you, I would hope that she will eventually be recognized.

I did hear her say in a interview. She was talking about the expectations. She never wanted all of the stuff. That is magazine covers and stuff like that. Yes it does come with it. I get that part. It sometimes is unfair.

 

[Alydar]

She's a convicted felon. Yeah there were extenuating circumstances but many felons could say that and get little sympathy.

But she is most certainly on my short list of GOAT players. I still remember those 10 foot baseline shots that she never seemed to miss.

 

[bballnut90]

You lost me on that first sentence. By no reasonable measure could she be ranked ahead of Stewie or Taurasi.

The bar for induction to the Naismith is far higher than for the WBHOF. Having said that, I believe Chamique is very deserving and will get in sooner or later.

Collegiately she 100% has a strong case for best ever:

-3 Championships
-2x POY (98/99) and Honda Award winner in 97
-2x Final Four MVP, (probably should've been 3x)
-4x Kodak All American
-National FOY
-Led team to undefeated season with a young roster in 98
-Led a much less talented and injury plagued team to a title in 1997, overcoming goliaths along the way including undefeated UCONN and 34-1 Old Dominion.
-Tore up record books (3025 points, 1295 rebounds), and is the time leading scorer in NCAA tournament history (479).
-Was the clear go to player and center piece all 4 years at Tennessee
-Passes the eye test too. Outstanding ball handler at 6-2, one of the best mid range shooters ever as well as a standout offensive rebounder and became a very good defender.


The only blemish on her resume is the Elite 8 loss as a senior. Compared to DT she's far better statistically and was a more dominant player all 4 years. Compared to Stewart you can use the same argument that UCONN fans do comparing Taurasi to Stewart. Stewart was surrounded by a ridiculous amount of talent and never had to put her team on her back to get them to a title like DT did in 03 or like how Holdsclaw did in 97.

She's often overlooked because her pro career didn't pan out as expected for a number of reasons compared to Tennessee greats like Catchings and Parker, but Holdsclaw is the clear cut best collegiate player to ever suit up for Tennessee and absolutely has a very strong case for herself as best ever.

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

Interesting - I did not know she was married and a mother. Good for her. Her wife is or was a WNBA exec, apparently.

I always enjoy "what are they doing now" features, but I only see the ones about teams I regularly follow; for example, from time to time RU former players are mentioned on the Rutgers board. I have also seen mention of former UConn players careers here.

 

[bballnut90]

She's a convicted felon. Yeah there were extenuating circumstances but many felons could say that and get little sympathy.

But she is most certainly on my short list of GOAT players. I still remember those 10 foot baseline shots that she never seemed to miss.

I think that's an easy cop out if you decide to overlook how much she's overcome and what she's accomplished since the felony. She grew up in the projects of NY, her mom was an alcoholic who was 18 when she had her, and Mique/her brother were raised by their grandma much of their childhood. After college her grandma died when Holdsclaw was just 24 and it resulted in awful depression which she was open about before it was a respected thing to do. A lot of fans didn't "get it" and gave her a hard time for not playing.
Her depression eventually led her to attempt suicide a few years later. She was eventually diagnosed with bipolar and has been open about all of this in recent years.

Since her low point with the gun incident, she's completely turned her life around and has dedicated her career to sharing her journey and helping others by creating awareness.

Since 2004 she has been a huge advocate for mental health, long before it was a respected thing to be open about. She has become a public speaker on the issue, traveling all over the country speaking to different groups of people to help remove stigma and create awareness. She even spoke at UCONN a few years ago and was involved in the WNBA's Mental Health Seminar a year ago.

So, if you're going to knock her for her non-basketball related felony, it's only fair you give her props for all the positive impact she's made off the court as well.

 

[Alydar]

I think that's an easy cop out if you decide to overlook how much she's overcome and what she's accomplished since the felony. She grew up in the projects of NY, her mom was an alcoholic who was 18 when she had her, and Mique/her brother were raised by their grandma much of their childhood. After college her grandma died when Holdsclaw was just 24 and it resulted in awful depression which she was open about before it was a respected thing to do. A lot of fans didn't "get it" and gave her a hard time for not playing.
Her depression eventually led her to attempt suicide a few years later. She was eventually diagnosed with bipolar and has been open about all of this in recent years.

Since her low point with the gun incident, she's completely turned her life around and has dedicated her career to sharing her journey and helping others by creating awareness.

Since 2004 she has been a huge advocate for mental health, long before it was a respected thing to be open about. She has become a public speaker on the issue, traveling all over the country speaking to different groups of people to help remove stigma and create awareness. She even spoke at UCONN a few years ago and was involved in the WNBA's Mental Health Seminar a year ago.

So, if you're going to knock her for her non-basketball related felony, it's only fair you give her props for all the positive impact she's made off the court as well.

Props for her basketball career.

I'm very sympathetic but the world of pro sports isn't generally as broad-minded. There are lots of great athletes that aren't in their HOF's for doing a lot less. What annoyed me most about Holdsclaw's story was the total lack of concern or sympathy for her ex-girlfiend from the BB community. Everyone seemed totally concerned with Holdsclaw and how she was doing and I never read on word of concern for how the actual victim was holding up. And not one person saw the double standard.

 

[bballnut90]

Props for her basketball career.

I'm very sympathetic but the world of pro sports isn't generally as broad-minded. There are lots of great athletes that aren't in their HOF's for doing a lot less. What annoyed me most about Holdsclaw's story was the total lack of concern or sympathy for her ex-girlfiend from the BB community. Everyone seemed totally concerned with Holdsclaw and how she was doing and I never read on word of concern for how the actual victim was holding up. And not one person saw the double standard.

Jason Kidd was just inducted 2 years ago despite domestic abuse charges, numerous other allegations later in his career and a bad drunk driving accident at the end of it. Rodman has had a slew of run ins with the law. Swoopes had abuse allegations the same year she was selected.

Every situation is unique but if outside circumstances are brought into decision making, I'd hope voters look at the entire picture rather than isolate one mistake over a 20+ year basketball career. Theyve overlooked this for many inductees.

I agree about the lack of concern regarding Lacy. Sadly more focus typically goes to the higher profile individual regardless of who is at fault vs who is the victim. I dont think Lacy publicly commented on the situation. My guess is she didnt want any spot light for it. I agree though, she should've received more sympathy than she did. And Holdsclaw received a mixed response. She had a lot of sympathizers but also was raked through the coals by many.

 

[MSSportsGuy]

Catchings is my all time favorite LV. She played so hard, showed toughness, got rebounds and baskets when they were needed and never quit on offense or defense.

Parker is not well liked on this board but she is incredibly talented, arguably more naturally gifted athletically than any LV and has proven she’s one of the 10 best ever.

However, Holdsclaw had a better collegiate career than either of those ladies. Her WNBA numbers were actually very good until she became so overwhelmed with depression that she had to step away for a bit. The situation outside the club was terrible but fortunately no one died as a result. That shouldn’t keep her out of the basketball hall of fame if you ask me. She apparently made amends and thank goodness the incident hasn’t repeated itself.

all three of these women should someday be in the Naismith hall of fame.

 

[WFFL]

DT had a DUI and im sure she will get in on first ballot. Holdsclaw was the MJ after Swoopes . Holdsclaw revolutionized the game thats for sure. She does not get her WNBA due bc of the crazy career and random retirement from the sparks , but she was a poster child for them when she entered for about 3 or 4 seasons.

 

[Carnac]

Interesting HOF case in the Athletic; I guess the case is complicated with her off the court depression / mental health issues which cut her career short at 7 years in the WNBA

Snubbed: The Hall of Fame case for Chamique Holdsclaw

Holdsclaw's dominance remains undeniable: 21 years after graduating, she still is Tennessee's all-time leader in points and rebounds.

theathletic.com

Holdsclaw’s dominance remains undeniable: Twenty-one years after she graduated from Tennessee, she still is its all-time leader with 3,025 points, 1,295 rebounds and 1,233 field goals made. A two-time national player of the year in addition to her three national championships, she was a four-time WBCA All-American, the No. 1 pick by the Washington Mystics in 1999 and the WNBA Rookie of the Year, an Olympic gold medalist in 2000, a six-time WNBA All-Star and, in 2002, the league’s scoring leader.

She’s in rare company having scored over 3,000 career points. She’s only 11 points behind Maya Moore. She’ll probably be Tennessee’s leading scorer for another 21 years. 3,000 points is a very tough nut to crack. So far, Maya is the only UConn woman to do it (3036). There have been a lot of great All-American players to come through that fell short of that milestone.

I also had the pleasure of meeting Holdsclaw once at my gym of all places. She was very cordial and pleasant to me despite the fact that I had a UConn women’s championship tee-shirt on. We chatted for a moment.

A very nice lady. Surprisingly, I recognized her immediately as she came up the stairs, and was the only person in the gym to do so. I can also attest that she is every inch of her advertised height of 6-2!

 

[Bayareahusky]

Oh geez Holdsclaw.... yes the personal struggles.... convicted felon.... baseball bat and firing a gun that is serious stuff.... but it is not connected to Hall of Fame snub ...or shouldn't be... like pete rose is he tarnished the game itself.... Holdsclaw's problems came away from the game....

And I find it ironic that Pat came to NYC to pluck Chamique, but got territorial later when Geno came to the South to recruit.... we do not have to rehash the Maya Moore story... but i think it is fair to say that the FACTS are not on Pat's side here.... and she tried her best to dismantle our program.....

Those two things out of the way, yes i agree that Holdsclaw deserves to be considered in the GOAT conversation.... a game changer.... a force which could not be stopped.... and a brilliant career.... lit it up for the Lady Volunteers.... and deserves all the acclaim she gets....

And of course.... the way she has turned her life around.... it is not how far you fall it is how high you bounce.