SEC Win% and Salary | The Boneyard

SEC Win% and Salary

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SEC is the last of the P5 schools to display and it has the second highest average salary of $804K. Here’s the odd set of data to go with the salary-the Win% is the lowest at .635 and the average wins is only 273 per coach. Despite having 14 teams in the league, the SEC has the lowest win total of 3,825 wins. Yikes! So does this tell us anything? Besides Dawn Staley, does any other coach stand out? Can anyone honestly say, “yup, this conference is loaded with great coaches? Gary Blair will be 75 this August. While Kentucky has Rhyne Howard and Jaz Massengale now, I am not convinced that Mitchell is an elite coach and he’s overpaid vs. what he has/has not accomplished and he’s arguably the 3rd best coach in this league. If I was an SEC fan, I would be very worried. Look at the coach’s career winning percentage rank among the P65 coaches-7th, 12th, 21st, 22nd, 30th, and so on, it goes down from there rapidly. Here’s the data:

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A lot of overpaid/underproducing coaches in this conference. Most of them are extremely average, not bad but not great. I will give Harper and McCray a pass since they are just starting at their perspective schools after being at mid majors. Neighbors has been very solid for Arkansas so far.

Some schools will need to seriously move on at some point, unless they are just content fielding a team with a pulse. Unfortunately some schools don't really care about their programs. As long as kids graduate, don't get arrested and are not getting in trouble with the NCAA, their AD's really don't care much.

SMH at Stephanie White and Joni Taylor.
 
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Neighbors has been very solid for Arkansas so far.

And he is short enough into his tenure to still be dragged down somewhat by the bad (13-18) first season at Arkansas when he was left with an almost entirely empty cupboard. His contract extension is temporarily on hold due to the pandemic, but looking at this table, I suspect Hunter Yurachek is going to give him a solid bump.

It took Staley 3 pretty so-so years to turn the Gamecocks into winners.

Pingeton had Mizzou on a definite uptick until this season, which was pretty bad (though the team’s best players were all freshman), but that uptick largely coincided with Cunningham’s arrival. It’ll be interesting to see if she can turn things back in a positive direction with Blackwell leading the squad.

White, Newbauer, and Flo ... I dunno. Newbauer is what happens when you go cheap. UF could have had any number of better coaches if they had been willing to pay. Flo is what happens when a proud program like AU stops caring and settles for mediocrity. And White ... I guess hiring a WNBA coach seemed like a coup at the time, but it really hasn’t worked out well for them. They have been recruiting fairly well the past couple years, but there doesn’t seem to be a playing style that defines the team.
 

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Here's the comparison of conference stats to draw your own conclusions, but like I said, top to bottom after Dawn, this is an uninspiring group of SEC coaches...

TmsConfWinsLossesWin%AvWperAvSalHiSalLoSal
15
ACC
4,339
2,155
0.668
289.3
$715
$1,475
$375
10
Big 12
4,398
2,185
0.668
439.8
$961
$2,000
$325
14
Big Ten
6,310
3,045
0.675
450.7
$748
$1,170
$521
12
Pac-12
4,112
2,139
0.658
342.7
$487
$800
$295
14
SEC
3,825
2,203
0.635
273.2
$804
$2,100
$452
65
All
22,984
11,727
0.662
353.6
$737
$2,100
$295
 
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Feb 2020

The Southeastern Conference (SEC) has announced that US$651 million of total revenue was distributed among its members for the fiscal year ending 31st August 2019, up 3.8 per cent on the US$627.1 million reported over the previous period.

The US college sports conference increased its payouts for 2018/19 to just over US$44.6 million per school. This does not include approximately US$7.8 million of National Collegiate Athletic Association (NCAA) and SEC grants divided among the 14 member institutions.

The average distribution was up on the US$43.1 million for 2017/18, not including schools that participated in the NCAA football bowl games.

The total distribution amount is comprised of revenue generated from television agreements, post-season bowl games, the College Football Playoff, the SEC Football Championship, the SEC Men's Basketball Tournament, NCAA Championships and a supplemental surplus distribution.


Pay your women, Big 10.

Is it worth it? Maybe not from a bean counter's perspective in terms of dollars per win, but . . .

"Staley and Gamecock Nation can be proud because the women's basketball program has led the nation in attendance for the last five seasons. South Carolina is on pace to make it six years in a row thanks to an average attendance of 11,069 that is No. 1 in the land.

Tennessee (No. 6 nationally, average of 8,080) and Mississippi State (No. 9, 7,524) give the Southeastern Conference three teams in the top 10 -

and five in the top 25 (Kentucky No. 18, 4,688; Missouri, No. 24, 3,825) -- and continue the league's run of setting the pace for attendance."


FWIW
 
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And he is short enough into his tenure to still be dragged down somewhat by the bad (13-18) first season at Arkansas when he was left with an almost entirely empty cupboard. His contract extension is temporarily on hold due to the pandemic, but looking at this table, I suspect Hunter Yurachek is going to give him a solid bump.

It took Staley 3 pretty so-so years to turn the Gamecocks into winners.

Pingeton had Mizzou on a definite uptick until this season, which was pretty bad (though the team’s best players were all freshman), but that uptick largely coincided with Cunningham’s arrival. It’ll be interesting to see if she can turn things back in a positive direction with Blackwell leading the squad.

White, Newbauer, and Flo ... I dunno. Newbauer is what happens when you go cheap. UF could have had any number of better coaches if they had been willing to pay. Flo is what happens when a proud program like AU stops caring and settles for mediocrity. And White ... I guess hiring a WNBA coach seemed like a coup at the time, but it really hasn’t worked out well for them. They have been recruiting fairly well the past couple years, but there doesn’t seem to be a playing style that defines the team.

It takes time to start and re jump a program that has been mediocre or bad for years. It takes a lot of time to change the culture and to develop a mindset of winning, then you see better players begin to buy in and follow.

Personally I don't think Stephanie White is the answer. yes they improved but they are still a long way from where they want to be. Despite recruiting talented kids, they have annual issues with season ending injuries and early depatures. They are still very sloppy and unorganized. They have not been the same program since Balcomb left.

Now Newbauer is interesting to me. He has been very below average so far although he didn't take over a very good program. Whats interesting to me is these last two years there has been a major surge in Florida being in contention and grabbing top recruits. Their team was very young this year and showed some promise at times. They almost double their wins from the previous year from 8 to 15. We will see if this is a trend next season or an outlier. Considering where they were a season ago, you have to label last season for them as a success and a stepping stone for the future.

I think Missouri may be one of the most improved team next year with all those transfers available and with Blackwell/Franks a year older. When the freshmen were far and away the best players on the team with not a lot of help from the supporting cast, that is never a good thing. Cunningham masked a lot of issues down there before she left and they got exposed big time when when graduated.

The Auburn coaches days are numbered IMO.
 

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Life is relative for the most part, so staying in the SEC, this lot of coaches is underwhelming no matter how you slice it. Simple fact is they are overpaid vs. their results-NO ENDS, NO IFS or NO BUTS about it. I said it above that just because you have money, does not mean you need to spend if foolishly which is EXACTLY what most of these ADs have done with the coaches they have. So sorry @visitingcock I don't understand your response. Plus your big bold Pay your coaches Big10? They are paid fairly well though not as overblown as your own SEC coaches but with better results. Dawn is the only one who deserves her money. Using a typical small business that Costs should be only 50-60% of revenue, if I calculate SC attendance at 11K per game times $12 tix price times 15 games per year, that's $1,980,000 in revenue per season. Give Dawn 50% plus her base salary and she sort of earns her keep (however her assistants, operations, other support personnel need to be considered as well). Heck, even Vic without the NCAAT or realistic potential to get back to the FF at MSU still earned his keep with his attendance. Not sure how MSU can justify paying Nikki McCray $750K per year when Vic was only making $465 just 2 years ago and he built that program. Now when you compare this group of coaches to the other ACC or PAC12 and BigTen Group, I find they come up as underachievers being pay neutral. Adding is the fat pay checks and THIS GROUP STINKS....Good thing Dawn is there to prop them up. ;)
 
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Neighbors has done a great job to my mind and his Final Four at another non-traditional school is validating.

Mitchell has been nothing but a consistent winner if not ever really a national contender.

Blair has won a title and maintains TAMU as a top 25 team, but he's on his way out of the business for sure.

Pingeton is open question whether that was a all about Cunningham or if she can have another round of success. I tend to think she can, but at this point I believe you give her benefit of the doubt.

We don't know about Tennessee or Miss State or Ole Miss. Florida is a relatively new tenure and they have gotten into some recruiting battles that are eyebrow raising.

I think Georgia and LSU are underperforming their potential.

I'm not sure what to think about Vandy. Felt like progress but injuries and final record didn't show it.
 

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Neighbors has done a great job to my mind and his Final Four at another non-traditional school is validating.

Mitchell has been nothing but a consistent winner if not ever really a national contender.

Blair has won a title and maintains TAMU as a top 25 team, but he's on his way out of the business for sure.

Pingeton is open question whether that was a all about Cunningham or if she can have another round of success. I tend to think she can, but at this point I believe you give her benefit of the doubt.

We don't know about Tennessee or Miss State or Ole Miss. Florida is a relatively new tenure and they have gotten into some recruiting battles that are eyebrow raising.

I think Georgia and LSU are underperforming their potential.

I'm not sure what to think about Vandy. Felt like progress but injuries and final record didn't show it.
So I read this and I am not sure what your point is on the comments. Are you contending that the SEC has a good group of coaches? If so, you haven't presented any evidence to sway why they are better than any of the other P5 Conferences. Show me some facts. Hint, I already have all the "success numbers" of Titles, Final Fours, Elite 8's, Sweet 16s and Conference titles won by conference and the SEC is 4th among all and that's with 14 teams....

Here's my retort to your comments:
  1. My quibbles with Neighbors is how he rode Kevin McGuff's recruits to the Final Four run and then left Washington high and dry without any talent. Let me see him do something with recruits he actually brings in and when I says do something-make it to the Sweet 16 or Elite 8.
  2. Mitchell is NOT a national contender. He's paid like one but his results are far from "national". He has made the Elite 8 3 times (last time in 2013) and Sweet 16 twice (last in 2016) and has 1 conference title during his career. He also had his "intervention moment" when most of his team and assistants left the program.
  3. Blair has had a really great career and just pulled in some great talent. With Vic at Texas, what is the A&M continuity plan?
  4. Vandy? So her 42-79 overall record and her 13-51 conference record is not giving you enough information to form a cohesive thought on what to think? How about 4-12; 3-13; 2-14; 4-12 in 4 years of conference play???
  5. That's ZERO improvement, so seriously, injuries happen to everyone and she hasn't developed anyone. Time to go...
So, yes, After Dawn and Gary, I still stand by my assertion that this lot of coaches is not impressive. To wit, of the P5 coaches, as said above, the SEC is 4th in Titles/Final Fours/E8/S16 and Conference titles won with a total of 89 among the lot of them (all 14) so that's a bit problematic and this fact is evidenced by their LOWEST winning percentage of all 5 conferences....Say all you want about young programs but all the conferences have young programs so you still need to look at the coaches total winning percentage...

I applaud your effort to support your conference but show some empirical evidence that this is not the worst group of P5 coaches.
Last, Dawn has to hope her coaching tree grows and is successful and that the SEC can rebound from the 2020 recruiting drought, which so far in 2021 and 2022 is not looking good for them...
 
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I also believe Joni Taylor has been disappointing overall. Outside her third year where she went 26-7, her teams have been very mediocre. They have regressed these last couple years. It amazes me too because Georgia is especially is a state loaded with top tier talent annually. They have all the potential in the world but I don't think Joni is going to get them to that next level. I am not exactly a fan of their style of play and I am skeptical on their ability to develop players currently.

Obviously for newer coaches like McCray, harper and Coach Yo, I will give them some time. Although McCray is taking over a pretty great situation. There is no excuses not to perform with the current roster. Harper, despite being at Tennessee I will give her a few years because Holly left some really really bad issues with that program. Interested in what that team looks like with her players. We all knock on Holly but she could recruit with the best, its incredible though how much talent she squandered. I don't know how to evaluate coach Yo right now. That program is good 4-6 years away, the culture needs to be stripped down and rebuilt and that can take a while.

I feel Nikki has not lived up to the billing at LSU. She is not bad at all but not very good either. We usually sit in that 8-9 seed annually or are on the bubble. We have yet to make it past the first round in over 5 years which IMO is unacceptable. Her teams will never be dumpster fire bad but I don't think she has what it takes to compete for SEC titles or go on deep NCAAT runs. We play great defense but lack the personnel to compete at a high level on the offensive end. Ironically most of her success came at the beginning of her LSU tenure when Van had a team loaded with top 100 players (Lutley, Webb, Barret, Hughes, Kenny, Plaissance, Mckinney) although Van did a bad job managing his roster at LSU. Got to recruit to compete with the best and we simply aren't recruiting good enough across the board. I feel she settles a lot on the recruiting trail to not end up getting burned but you have to go after the big fish harder if you want to win. Baylor, UCONN, ND, SC, Tennessee did not win all those titles over the years with mediocre players, that is a fact and all those coaches. could tell you that you need to have good players to win at that level. Which is why Pokey was a game changer for our program, unfortunate it ended the way it did because she was 100% the reason LSU went to 5 final fours in a row.
 
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DefenseBB

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I also believe Joni Taylor has been disappointing overall. Outside her third year where she went 26-7, her teams have been very mediocre. They have regressed these last couple years. It amazes me too because Georgia is especially is a state loaded with top tier talent annually. They have all the potential in the world but I don't think Joni is going to get them to that next level. I am not exactly a fan of their style of play and I am skeptical on their ability to develop players currently.

Obviously for newer coaches like McCray, harper and Coach Yo, I will give them some time. Although McCray is taking over a pretty great situation. There is no excuses not to perform with the current roster. Harper, despite being at Tennessee I will give her a few years because Holly left some really really bad issues with that program. Interested in what that team looks like with her players. We all knock on Holly but she could recruit with the best, its incredible though how much talent she squandered. I don't know how to evaluate coach Yo right now. That program is good 4-6 years away, the culture needs to be stripped down and rebuilt and that can take a while.

I feel Nikki has not lived up to the billing at LSU. She is not bad at all but not very good either. We usually sit in that 8-9 seed annually or are on the bubble. We have yet to make it past the first round in over 5 years which IMO is unacceptable. Her teams will never be dumpster fire bad but I don't think she has what it takes to compete for SEC titles or go on deep NCAAT runs. We play great defense but lack the personnel to compete at a high level on the offensive end. Ironically most of her success came at the beginning of her LSU tenure when Van had a team loaded with top 100 players (Lutley, Webb, Barret, Hughes, Kenny, Plaissance, Mckinney) although Van did a bad job managing his roster at LSU. Got to recruit to compete with the best and we simply aren't recruiting good enough across the board. I feel she settles a lot on the recruiting trail to not end up getting burned but you have to go after the big fish harder if you want to win. Baylor, UCONN, ND, SC, Tennessee did not win all those titles over the years with mediocre players, that is a fact and all those coaches. could tell you that you need to have good players to win at that level. Which is why Pokey was a game changer for our program, unfortunate it ended the way it did because she was 100% the reason LSU went to 5 final fours in a row.
Fair analysis so let me ask you this-in comparison to the other P5 conferences does this group earn their pay and how do they rank with their credentials to the other groups?
 
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Fair analysis so let me ask you this-in comparison to the other P5 conferences does this group earn their pay and how do they rank with their credentials to the other groups?

Most SEC sports pay their coaches well across the board (regardless if its earned or not). I do not believe most of the coaches in SEC are not earning their pay. I think Dawn and Blair are doing good job and are earning it, although Blair is towards the end of his career. Mitchell is a good coach and fields top 25 teams annually but I don't think he is worth his current salary but if thats what Kentucky wants to pay him, go for it I guess...

Neighbors has been solid for Arkansas so far, he is so far earning his paycheck.

Joni and White have no business making the money they make. Its almost stealing at this point.
 
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So I read this and I am not sure what your point is on the comments. Are you contending that the SEC has a good group of coaches? If so, you haven't presented any evidence to sway why they are better than any of the other P5 Conferences. Show me some facts. Hint, I already have all the "success numbers" of Titles, Final Fours, Elite 8's, Sweet 16s and Conference titles won by conference and the SEC is 4th among all and that's with 14 teams....

Here's my retort to your comments:
  1. My quibbles with Neighbors is how he rode Kevin McGuff's recruits to the Final Four run and then left Washington high and dry without any talent. Let me see him do something with recruits he actually brings in and when I says do something-make it to the Sweet 16 or Elite 8.

Well, except that Plum was pretty clearly a Neighbors recruit, if you followed how that went. She was committed when McGuff was there, but she only kept her commitment to UW when they hired Neighbors. "If you stay, I stay," was the message.

And I disagree about leaving UW with "no" talent. Aari McDonald was a Huskie till Neighbors left. Her transfer isn't Mike's fault; she was his recruit. There were injury problems, for sure, but the 2017 roster had Kierra Collier (who also bailed for Drake, where's she's doing well), and Melgoza on it. Who was psychic enough to know that good players like Strother and Romeo would never be able to play again? Injuries were a problem, for sure - I don't even know what to say about Garcia's career -- but it's not that there was "no talent" in the program.
 
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So I read this and I am not sure what your point is on the comments. Are you contending that the SEC has a good group of coaches? If so, you haven't presented any evidence to sway why they are better than any of the other P5 Conferences. Show me some facts. Hint, I already have all the "success numbers" of Titles, Final Fours, Elite 8's, Sweet 16s and Conference titles won by conference and the SEC is 4th among all and that's with 14 teams....

Here's my retort to your comments:
  1. My quibbles with Neighbors is how he rode Kevin McGuff's recruits to the Final Four run and then left Washington high and dry without any talent. Let me see him do something with recruits he actually brings in and when I says do something-make it to the Sweet 16 or Elite 8.
  2. Mitchell is NOT a national contender. He's paid like one but his results are far from "national". He has made the Elite 8 3 times (last time in 2013) and Sweet 16 twice (last in 2016) and has 1 conference title during his career. He also had his "intervention moment" when most of his team and assistants left the program.
  3. Blair has had a really great career and just pulled in some great talent. With Vic at Texas, what is the A&M continuity plan?
  4. Vandy? So her 42-79 overall record and her 13-51 conference record is not giving you enough information to form a cohesive thought on what to think? How about 4-12; 3-13; 2-14; 4-12 in 4 years of conference play???
  5. That's ZERO improvement, so seriously, injuries happen to everyone and she hasn't developed anyone. Time to go...
So, yes, After Dawn and Gary, I still stand by my assertion that this lot of coaches is not impressive. To wit, of the P5 coaches, as said above, the SEC is 4th in Titles/Final Fours/E8/S16 and Conference titles won with a total of 89 among the lot of them (all 14) so that's a bit problematic and this fact is evidenced by their LOWEST winning percentage of all 5 conferences....Say all you want about young programs but all the conferences have young programs so you still need to look at the coaches total winning percentage...

I applaud your effort to support your conference but show some empirical evidence that this is not the worst group of P5 coaches.
Last, Dawn has to hope her coaching tree grows and is successful and that the SEC can rebound from the 2020 recruiting drought, which so far in 2021 and 2022 is not looking good for them...

I don't really understand the UConn derision for the SEC as opposed to the Big 12 or Big 10 or ACC or the AAC or Big East or any other conference.

I assume it has something to do with Pat Summitt.

I find the SEC schedule more interesting when South Carolina is pushed, but it hardly will hurt my feelings if the Gamecocks roll through it.

I'm not sure how the SEC coaching ranks are particularly less accomplished than most other conferences, but whatever.

I wish anyone that has coached at South Carolina well, but I also do not spend any time worrying about Dawn Staley's coaching tree. If it is successful that's great. They're good people. If not, that's not really my concern.

The last time you were this strident was last off-season where you for some reason seemed upset that people thought Ty Harris and Herbert-Harrigan were good players.

I guess we'll just fold up the program since you think South Carolina is in a "recruiting drought." Oh dear oh dear oh dear.
 
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I don't really understand the UConn derision for the SEC as opposed to the Big 12 or Big 10 or ACC or the AAC or Big East or any other conference.

I assume it has something to do with Pat Summitt.

I find the SEC schedule more interesting when South Carolina is pushed, but it hardly will hurt my feelings if the Gamecocks roll through it.

I'm not sure how the SEC coaching ranks are particularly less accomplished than most other conferences, but whatever.

I wish anyone that has coached at South Carolina well, but I also do not spend any time worrying about Dawn Staley's coaching tree. If it is successful that's great. They're good people. If not, that's not really my concern.

The last time you were this strident was last off-season where you for some reason seemed upset that people thought Ty Harris and Herbert-Harrigan were good players.

I guess we'll just fold up the program since you think South Carolina is in a "recruiting drought." Oh dear oh dear oh dear.
Not sure you're reading my comments as they are intended. SC can not have a #1 class every year as you simply would not have any room on the roster. Same goes for MSU who signed 4 players. Not ranking high this year makes sense. I am talking about ALL the other 12 programs in the SEC and their lack of gathering top players. Tennessee needs to have top recruits every year because top recruits transfer every year. :rolleyes:

As far as my "derision" I am noting that the SEC is DEAD LAST in winning percentage of the P5 Conferences but 2nd in PAY. My gosh, Joni Taylor, 1st year coach making $750K? Matthew Mitchell with all of ONE Conference title making $1.2MILLION and where is his recruiting if he's so elite? This year with Jaz and Rhyne better be a banner year. Nikki McCray with just 3 years HC experience getting $750K while just 2 years ago Vic, who built that program was at $465k. Kellie Jolly Harper getting $750K. That's downright silly money. And what exactly have any of them proven? Like I said, I look at the list of coaches and I am not impressed. I asked directly what facts, stats or other evidence do you have that would change my view as why they should be ranked higher? As far as the other conferences-the Big12 is also a disaster with Coale at $1.1 mil and cupcake lover Stollings. Schneider for all is D3 success is an absolute bust for Kansas. The BigTen with McGuff at $1.175Million is also a major head scratcher, however the rest of those coaches are paid fairly appropriately. The adding irritant is not so much Tennessee (fans are still annoying as evidenced by the ORANGE in Hartford this year and their yapping before and during the game) but Andy "HOMER FOR THE SEC" Landers on the ESPN studio show and yes many, many of the SEC brethren on this forum who routinely tout how "awesome" the SEC is. I am simply stating some facts that contradict that. If that's derisive, so be it.

But as I have said many, many times, Dawn deserves her salary and her esteem for what she's created at SC, regular success with multiple squads (Unlike Schaefer who needs to win with big T) and I respect Gary Blair and how he's been pretty good even since his title 9 years ago. Neighbors seems to be on the upswing but is very, very guard orientated and I am not how well that will play against SC and MSU.
 

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Dawn deserves her esteem for what she's created at SC, regular success with multiple squads (Unlike Schaefer who needs to win with big T) and I respect Gary Blair and how he's been pretty good even since his title 9 years ago.

:D :D I'm having a laugh at this. 25-6 after losing a program building player....... and he ain't nuttin' without McCowan. It was expected we'll go down a bit last year, but if 27-6 counts as a recovery year after losing McCowan, I'd take that as optimism of great things to come anyday.

Texas A&M has been a consistent 9 loss/10 loss team since Vic left, with 1 Elite 8 appearance. They haven't been the same without Vic, so you wonder who was the main architect behind that national title.
 
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Unlike Schaefer who needs to win with big T

This seems a little unfair. Big T and vivians did help jump start the MSU program and helped carve it into what it is today. Every great coach who has built their dynasty usually need a couple of big players to help jump start and propel their program forward. They went 27-6 this year with the foundation really all freshmen and sophomores outside of Danberry. You can certainly knock Vic for his pathetic OOC scheduling but Vic was a winner at miss st. A place where it is not exactly an easy play to win. Vic has been much more successful than coach Blair the last 6 years. Miss St these last two years were now actually seeing the benefit of much better talent flow into Starkville before he left. We will see if McCray can sustain or build on it.

time will tell how Vic does at Texas but I see no reason why he can’t be successful considering Austin is much easier to sell and Texas is a hot bed of talent. He has no excuses down there
 
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The SEC has (had?) money to light on fire.

Not sure rating the dollar efficiency of non-revenue sports makes a lot of sense, but there you go. That's the explanation.

Joni Taylor started at 575k and got raise and extension to 750k after going 26-7 and finishing 2nd in the league early in her tenure.

McCray is getting 750k, but Vic was due 1.6m. The market has changed since Vic started at Miss St. That was an SEC as hell hire, but I do hope it works out for Nikki.

Pretty sure Mitchell has used longevity, relative success, and other job offers and pretty decent success (in my view) to push his numbers. What is it to UK pre-Covid to throw a few extra 100k to keep a guy that's more than respectable?

I mean I'm not trying to convince you that the sec spends its money well. It really doesn't to be honest.
 

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