SEC Improvement? | The Boneyard

SEC Improvement?

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Just wanted to get thoughts from anyone who cares to throw in their two cents. The SEC was arguably the best conference in the 90s and very early 2000s. They dropped off on the national scene as other programs from other leagues took the spotlight. For several years now the best programs and really the only ones to get mentioned nationally were SC and MSU (which were the two bottom feeders for so long).

This year looks to be different. SC is still up there and MSU even with the coaching change looks to be very good still but Kentucky, A&M, Arkansas, UT all look to be very relevant teams. Georgia also appears to be better than recent memory. There are of course the usual teams at the bottom that probably need to make some changes but overall I think the league is better this year. Transfers have no doubt helped make this happen and it will be part of the game from now on. I am not saying anyone other than SC, if them, makes it late into the tournament, just that I believe there is more quality teams in the league than there has been in many years.
 
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Just wanted to get thoughts from anyone who cares to throw in their two cents. The SEC was arguably the best conference in the 90s and very early 2000s. They dropped off on the national scene as other programs from other leagues took the spotlight. For several years now the best programs and really the only ones to get mentioned nationally were SC and MSU (which were the two bottom feeders for so long).

This year looks to be different. SC is still up there and MSU even with the coaching change looks to be very good still but Kentucky, A&M, Arkansas, UT all look to be very relevant teams. Georgia also appears to be better than recent memory. There are of course the usual teams at the bottom that probably need to make some changes at the top but overall I think the league is better top to bottom this year. Transfers have no doubt helped make this happen and it will be part of the game from now on. I am not saying anyone other than SC, if them, makes it late into the tournament, just that I believe there is more quality teams in the league than there has been in many years.
Agree, I do not see any easy SEC wins. I still believe PAC 12 is top conference but both SEC and ACC are not far behind.
 
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Agree, I do not see any easy SEC wins. I still believe PAC 12 is top conference but both SEC and ACC are not far behind.
I agree the PAC is the best hands down. I've never been a Huge "cheer for the conference guy" like many SEC fans are but think it makes everyone look better when there are more than just one or two quality teams.
 

southie

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Not having seen all the top teams in each conference play, I'd lean to the SEC (seen all their top teams play) as being the strongest conference; strictly an opinion as I don't have stats to support it . A top 6 of South Carolina, Texas A&M, Kentucky, Miss. State, Tennessee and Arkansas seem collectively stronger than Stanford, Arizona, UCLA, Oregon, Arizona State, Oregon State.
 
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Not having seen all the top teams in each conference play, I'd lean to the SEC (seen all their top teams play) as being the strongest conference; strictly an opinion as I don't have stats to support it . A top 6 of South Carolina, Texas A&M, Kentucky, Miss. State, Tennessee and Arkansas seem collectively stronger than Stanford, Arizona, UCLA, Oregon, Arizona State, Oregon State.
This season is more unusual because of the very limited non conference games. You need to remember that the teams you are judging those teams against are fellow SEC teams. Most of those teams have not played any viable out of conference games against the better teams. The gage that most are using is the Arkansas victory against Baylor. However, Baylor is vastly over rated this season. Arkansas just exposed them as such. Arkansas is also over rated because they are entirely too on dimensional. Tenn exposed them as did Maryland. The type of team they are is to inconsistent to be a viable reference for an out of conference gage of strength. There game relies to much of hot shooting and favorable matchups.

The only real test of conference strength will come in the NCAA, when if if they even happen. By the way I think Texas beats Baylor at least once this season.
 

SimpleDawg

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C'mon tho.... The SEC is better than the Pac-12 this year. Pac-12 has Stanford all alone, and then Oregon and UCLA, then somewhere after them is Arizona, Arizona State, Washington State?

The SEC has South Carolina, Mississippi State, Kentucky, and A&M in a tight loop, and then Arkansas and Tennessee as real threats. Georgia (7th best SEC team) has gotten better and is better than at least 8 teams from the Pac-12 this year.

ACC? Hmmm... I thought they only had 2 ranked teams (Louisville and NcState), but maybe I gotta check again.
 

bballnut90

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Just wanted to get thoughts from anyone who cares to throw in their two cents. The SEC was arguably the best conference in the 90s and very early 2000s. They dropped off on the national scene as other programs from other leagues took the spotlight. For several years now the best programs and really the only ones to get mentioned nationally were SC and MSU (which were the two bottom feeders for so long).

This year looks to be different. SC is still up there and MSU even with the coaching change looks to be very good still but Kentucky, A&M, Arkansas, UT all look to be very relevant teams. Georgia also appears to be better than recent memory. There are of course the usual teams at the bottom that probably need to make some changes but overall I think the league is better this year. Transfers have no doubt helped make this happen and it will be part of the game from now on. I am not saying anyone other than SC, if them, makes it late into the tournament, just that I believe there is more quality teams in the league than there has been in many years.
I for the most part agree. The SEC teams this year look pretty good offensively compared to a typical SEC year which i think is the biggest catalyst. Between Howard, Jackson, Davis, Dungee and Cooke there are a lot of great individual playmakers and electrifying players which make games more interesting to watch.

Im not sure of the conference being overall stronger on a national scale since we've seen limited OOC action, and the SEC hasn't done great in that arena between SC losing to NC State, Tennessee to West Virginia, Kentucky to DePaul and Mississippi State to USF. I think the only high profile win is Arkansas over Baylor.
 
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I for the most part agree. The SEC teams this year look pretty good offensively compared to a typical SEC year which i think is the biggest catalyst. Between Howard, Jackson, Davis, Dungee and Cooke there are a lot of great individual playmakers and electrifying players which make games more interesting to watch.

Im not sure of the conference being overall stronger on a national scale since we've seen limited OOC action, and the SEC hasn't done great in that arena between SC losing to NC State, Tennessee to West Virginia, Kentucky to DePaul and Mississippi State to USF. I think the only high profile win is Arkansas over Baylor.
Touché on the OOC losses and you are correct. I just look at the top of the league this year and think 2-6 will be a dog fight with very little separation. That’s a change from the past few seasons.

I think the regular season and conference tourney if it happens will be much more entertaining. I could also see any of those teams making noise in the NCAA. It’s nice to look at the quality of the teams and know it isn’t necessarily a one or two team race again.
 
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This season is more unusual because of the very limited non conference games. You need to remember that the teams you are judging those teams against are fellow SEC teams. Most of those teams have not played any viable out of conference games against the better teams. The gage that most are using is the Arkansas victory against Baylor. However, Baylor is vastly over rated this season. Arkansas just exposed them as such. Arkansas is also over rated because they are entirely too on dimensional. Tenn exposed them as did Maryland. The type of team they are is to inconsistent to be a viable reference for an out of conference gage of strength. There game relies to much of hot shooting and favorable matchups.

The only real test of conference strength will come in the NCAA, when if if they even happen. By the way I think Texas beats Baylor at least once this season.
Arkansas can beat anybody when their shots are falling and they can get beat by anybody when the ball just does not go in. Baylor is a really good team that has both and inside and outside game, picking a final four for me would certainly include Baylor. My top four are 1. UConn 2. Stanford 3. South Carolina 4. Baylor, NCST would be my next choice.
 

southie

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This season is more unusual because of the very limited non conference games. You need to remember that the teams you are judging those teams against are fellow SEC teams. Most of those teams have not played any viable out of conference games against the better teams. The gage that most are using is the Arkansas victory against Baylor. However, Baylor is vastly over rated this season. Arkansas just exposed them as such. Arkansas is also over rated because they are entirely too on dimensional. Tenn exposed them as did Maryland. The type of team they are is to inconsistent to be a viable reference for an out of conference gage of strength. There game relies to much of hot shooting and favorable matchups.

The only real test of conference strength will come in the NCAA, when if if they even happen. By the way I think Texas beats Baylor at least once this season.
I don't disagree with what you are saying. But, as a collective group of the Top 6 teams in the SEC versus the PAC 12, I think the SEC is a stronger group.
 

nwhoopfan

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I'm a Pac 12 guy, but the middle is mediocre and the bottom is terrible this year. The top half is good though. About 1/3 of the conference is out of action due to covid protocol currently, which certainly throws a kink into everything.

Haven't really seen much of the SEC teams. A&M seems like the big surprise to me. Arkansas kinda has a must win against the Aggies tomorrow.
 

DefenseBB

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Relevance in regards to top 25 vs. top 1-6 of the conference needs to be taken into consideration and that is where the PAC12 shines. To wit:
Stanford is head and shoulders above SC who is head and shoulders above anyone else in the SEC. Oregon and UCLA are better than any 2-6 team the SEC can put out. Is Arizona better than Kentucky/A&M/MSU is a valid question. I might put A&M ahead but put AZ better than the other 2.
Then where do Oregon/UCLA rank vs.SC? I give the edge to SC but it’s close.
So to recap, PAC12 has the top team, SEC, PAC, PAC, SEC, PAC, SEC, SEC.
The top 4 are clearly in favor of the PAC12.
As @willtalk logically noted, without OOC quality opponents it’s tough to evaluate so most of this is off of the eye test. I am not sold on Georgia and Arkansas has issues it need to figure out. We get a good look at Tennessee in 2 weeks so that will be curious. Alabama is still mediocre despite their record. WSU has been a surprise but how to grade them against the 5-8 teams of SEC? USC Trojans have been without their Best player most of the year (Alissa Pili) and still are middle of the pack so they need to be considered when she comes back.
The ACC is top heavy with Louisville and NCState but after that, it’s not pretty-Syracuse?
The Big12 is sort of mess as Baylor seems less Baylorlike. Texas is a nice story with Vic but lack threats besides Charlie Collier. And yes @willtalk i would take a bet Kim beats Vic twice this year. Iowa State was ranked and has Joens and a good crop of freshman but also not really impressive nationally. This is probably the worst P5.
Big10 is the wildcard here as they may be deeper than all the other P5 conferences. Their problem is trying to determine how elite is Maryland? If you have 6 teams in the 11-25 range vs. 5 SECteams in the 5-16 range is that deeper or better? The middle of the Big10 is better than all of the others and their bottom is not as bad as Cal/Wash, Virginia/Pitt, Auburn/Ole Miss, TCU or OU.
 

Plebe

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Not having seen all the top teams in each conference play, I'd lean to the SEC (seen all their top teams play) as being the strongest conference; strictly an opinion as I don't have stats to support it . A top 6 of South Carolina, Texas A&M, Kentucky, Miss. State, Tennessee and Arkansas seem collectively stronger than Stanford, Arizona, UCLA, Oregon, Arizona State, Oregon State.
Not to me. Going down the list team for team, the Pac-12 is clearly stronger at 4 of the 6 positions, and I wouldn't count them out for the other two.
 

southie

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Not to me. Going down the list team for team, the Pac-12 is clearly stronger at 4 of the 6 positions, and I wouldn't count them out for the other two.
Like who? Just about every Arizona game thread on here this season has the majority of posters talking about how overrated the Wildcats are. On paper, they are supposed to be one of the Top 2-3 teams in the PAC; without them living up to pre-season expectations so far, it hurts the strength/perception of the conference, IMO.
 
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Arkansas can beat anybody when their shots are falling and they can get beat by anybody when the ball just does not go in. Baylor is a really good team that has both and inside and outside game, picking a final four for me would certainly include Baylor. My top four are 1. UConn 2. Stanford 3. South Carolina 4. Baylor, NCST would be my next choice.
Arkansas can beat a lot of teams when their shots are falling, but the certainly can't beat everyone. They need to have the right matchup for their game to mitigate their lack of an inside presence on both offense and defense. Tenn scored at will on them in the post and on short jumpers in the key. Plus they totally dominated the boards. Those were areas that Baylor could not take advantage of. Which brings us back to your statement about Baylor.

The areas that Baylor was strong in the past they are not anymore. They have yet to play anyone decent except for Arkansas. Other than Di Di they really do not have any other top flight defenders on their team. They could not stop Arkansas from driving and scoring off the dribble or challenge their shots with post defense. Tenn did both. Shots dropping aside, against a team Baylor should have dominated in the post they failed to do so. No Baylor does not have an effective inside and outside game. Smith is an opportunist who needs open space and lanes to be effective against top competition. Playing along side Brown and Cox allowed her to do so. You can count the players who are a viable threat from outside on two fingers.

Certainly timing ( or the on any given night factor ) does come into play. But that only applies if the gulf of talent in respect to matchups is narrow enough to allow it to be a factor. As I stated in other posts Neighbors does not have the personal this season to mitigate his lack of post effectiveness on either the offensive or defensive end. He has sold out post play to favor his style of play. To have any sort of consistency you have to have some sort of half court options. Next season they are getting a talented 6"5" guard who will fit into his style of play. That might help somewhat.
 
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Like who? Just about every Arizona game thread on here this season has the majority of posters talking about how overrated the Wildcats are. On paper, they are supposed to be one of the Top 2-3 teams in the PAC; without them living up to pre-season expectations so far, it hurts the strength/perception of the conference, IMO.
They are still one of the top 3 teams in the conference standings wise. They only played one out of conference game and won by less of a margin than expected but this is a Covid season. They did have some close wins in conference and got blown out by Stanford, but that was in conference so how would that rationally have a negative affect on the strength of conference? It just might mean that perhaps the rest of the conference is stronger than expected. There were other teams that ended up being better than exspected like Washington St. Still all in all Ariona has only one loss and that was to Stanford. I expect them to lose more before the season is over. Thats what was expected from the Pac 12. More teams capable of beating the top ones on any given night. In some cases that might also result in the favorite sneaking by with a close win.
 

nwhoopfan

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Next season they are getting a talented 6"5" guard who will fit into his style of play. That might help somewhat.
I guess everybody is eligible to come back next season, but Dungee, Slocum and Ramirez are all RS Sr. Some of them might be ready to move on. Point is they might be losing a lot of their scoring from this team.
 
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Dungee probably won't come back, but Slocum might. From the games I saw she is not getting the opportunities I believe she anticipated due to so many players being able to create their own shots. At Oregon st she had to share with Pivec, but at Arkansas she has to almost share with everybody.

The incoming player is a local girl but I doubt that Neighbors can continue to bring in players who not only fit his system but are willing to share the ball. They can use only one ball at a time in the game. He got fortunate when he had success with Plum. The odds of him getting a post player to commit to that team knowing they will seldom see the ball is not very promising. This is why he could not adjust in the Tenn game even if he wanted too. He has to be totally committed to his streetball style or nothing.
 
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nwhoopfan

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The incoming player is a local girl but I doubt that Neighbors can continue to bring in players who not only fit his system but are willing to share the ball. They can use only one ball at a time in the game. He got fortunate when he had success with Plum. The odds of him getting a post player to commit to that team knowing they will seldom see the ball is not very promising. This is why he could not adjust in the Tenn game even if he wanted too. He has to be totally committed to his streetball style or nothing.
I think he did get fairly lucky w/ Plum and don't forget Osahor, she was a big factor in winning as many games as they did his last 2 seasons at UW. Chantel got plenty of shot opportunities as a Husky. It's not like post players can't score for a Neighbors' coached team, but my understanding is he's had very little to work with at Arkansas.
 

southie

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They are still one of the top 3 teams in the conference standings wise. They only played one out of conference game and won by less of a margin than expected but this is a Covid season. They did have some close wins in conference and got blown out by Stanford, but that was in conference so how would that rationally have a negative affect on the strength of conference? It just might mean that perhaps the rest of the conference is stronger than expected. There were other teams that ended up being better than exspected like Washington St. Still all in all Ariona has only one loss and that was to Stanford. I expect them to lose more before the season is over. Thats what was expected from the Pac 12. More teams capable of beating the top ones on any given night. In some cases that might also result in the favorite sneaking by with a close win.
I guess it's possible. Arizona losing today at Washington State could mean they are overrated, or that Wazzu was underrated. Either way, Arizona doesn't seem to be playing with the same chemistry they did one season ago. When conference play concludes, I think Arizona will finish no higher than 4th.
 
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Relevance in regards to top 25 vs. top 1-6 of the conference needs to be taken into consideration and that is where the PAC12 shines. To wit:
Stanford is head and shoulders above SC who is head and shoulders above anyone else in the SEC. Oregon and UCLA are better than any 2-6 team the SEC can put out. Is Arizona better than Kentucky/A&M/MSU is a valid question. I might put A&M ahead but put AZ better than the other 2.
Then where do Oregon/UCLA rank vs.SC? I give the edge to SC but it’s close.
So to recap, PAC12 has the top team, SEC, PAC, PAC, SEC, PAC, SEC, SEC.
The top 4 are clearly in favor of the PAC12.
As @willtalk logically noted, without OOC quality opponents it’s tough to evaluate so most of this is off of the eye test. I am not sold on Georgia and Arkansas has issues it need to figure out. We get a good look at Tennessee in 2 weeks so that will be curious. Alabama is still mediocre despite their record. WSU has been a surprise but how to grade them against the 5-8 teams of SEC? USC Trojans have been without their Best player most of the year (Alissa Pili) and still are middle of the pack so they need to be considered when she comes back.
The ACC is top heavy with Louisville and NCState but after that, it’s not pretty-Syracuse?
The Big12 is sort of mess as Baylor seems less Baylorlike. Texas is a nice story with Vic but lack threats besides Charlie Collier. And yes @willtalk i would take a bet Kim beats Vic twice this year. Iowa State was ranked and has Joens and a good crop of freshman but also not really impressive nationally. This is probably the worst P5.
Big10 is the wildcard here as they may be deeper than all the other P5 conferences. Their problem is trying to determine how elite is Maryland? If you have 6 teams in the 11-25 range vs. 5 SECteams in the 5-16 range is that deeper or better? The middle of the Big10 is better than all of the others and their bottom is not as bad as Cal/Wash, Virginia/Pitt, Auburn/Ole Miss, TCU or OU.


The SEC as a conference has the #1 NET ranking and the #1 RPI ranking. The PAC12 has the #5 NET ranking and the #5 RPI ranking. That doesn't appear to be a neck-and-neck race between the two leagues, compared to what is being posted in this thread, much less a clear advantage for the PAC 12....
 

southie

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The SEC as a conference has the #1 NET ranking and the #1 RPI ranking. The PAC12 has the #5 NET ranking and the #5 RPI ranking. That doesn't appear to be a neck-and-neck race between the two leagues, compared to what is being posted in this thread, much less a clear advantage for the PAC 12....
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