Salary question | The Boneyard

Salary question

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I hear that American female basketball players make more money playing overseas than in the WNBA, some superstars quite a bit more, but how much is more and is it only Americans who command high salaries? The number of pro women teams outside the U.S. is extremely high. Are audiences that large or are there subsidies? I have been told that because there are fewer super athletes (which I question) that the European game is more cerebral which is why someone like Anna Makurat with her court IQ is in high demand in Poland.
 
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In 2021, the super-maximum base level salary a WNBA player can make is $221,450. The minimum base level salary is that of a player with zero to two years of experience, which is $58,710.

That’s tremendous progress considering that just five years ago in 2016, the maximum income a player could earn was $109,000. For Russia that number tripled to $325,000 per season. While in China that number triple-doubled to $600,000 per season.

Diana Taurasi sat out of the 2015 WNBA season because her Russian team, which paid her more than $1 million, wanted her to rest.

 
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In 2021, the super-maximum base level salary a WNBA player can make is $221,450. The minimum base level salary is that of a player with zero to two years of experience, which is $58,710.

That’s tremendous progress considering that just five years ago in 2016, the maximum income a player could earn was $109,000. For Russia that number tripled to $325,000 per season. While in China that number triple-doubled to $600,000 per season.

Diana Taurasi sat out of the 2015 WNBA season because her Russian team, which paid her more than $1 million, wanted her to rest.

The salaries of WNBA players don’t seem to make a lot of sense considering their contributions. Time in the league seems to outweigh contribution. No one should probably make more than Stewie, yet many do. As a third year player, KLS makes $60,000. As the MVP of her Spanish League team, what did she make?
 

Amashutcha

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there have always been significant subsidies in European basketball, both male and female. The majority of teams are owned by companies or wealthy individuals, who are involved for prestige or publicity.
that makes sense. so if the owners incur losses they'd just file it as an advertising expense for their business.
 
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that makes sense. so if the owners incur losses they'd just file it as an advertising expense for their business.
Often. Butt on too many occasions, teams have simply gone out of business in the middle of the season and not paid the players. And there have been many occasions where players’ checks bounced. There are stories about men’s teams in certain countries where the players would race to the bank to cash their paychecks, knowing that whoever got there late would find that they were insufficient funds to pay them.
 
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Keep in mind that the WNBA season is, what like three months?
And that’s the problem. You can’t find many employers willing to let you take three months off and it slows your adjustment to post bb work life, which is why getting money early—and saving or investing it—is necessary.
 

CL82

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And that’s the problem. You can’t find many employers willing to let you take three months off and it slows your adjustment to post bb work life, which is why getting money early—and saving or investing it—is necessary.
Or perhaps that is a contributing factor to the salary seems so low. If you want annualized version of the salary, multiply it time four.
 
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I hear that American female basketball players make more money playing overseas than in the WNBA, some superstars quite a bit more, but how much is more and is it only Americans who command high salaries? The number of pro women teams outside the U.S. is extremely high. Are audiences that large or are there subsidies? I have been told that because there are fewer super athletes (which I question) that the European game is more cerebral which is why someone like Anna Makurat with her court IQ is in high demand in Poland.
Answering some of the parts of the question that have not been answered...

It is not just Americans. In fact, in demand Europeans make way more than everyone other than the best Americans. That is why a lot of players who are outside of Team USA consideration choose to take on European citizenship, playing for the national team a bit and increasing their salaries for their club careers. People who have not taken up European citizenship, but qualify to should definitely be thinking about getting it as young as possible as the rules changed to allow someone like Sabrina Ionescu to count as a European even if she represents the United States. Very few leagues require any kind of public disclosure so official figures are hard to find and it is occasionally hard to tell whether figures are pre or post local income tax since most people quote salary post-tax in general use. The French league has some more information than most and it generally looks like all of their teams have a higher payroll than WNBA teams. EuroLeague champions Ekaterinburg are estimated to have a post-tax player payroll of around 10 to 12 million dollars, though there are some suggestions that it may be more like 15 million dollars. Runners up Avenida reportedly had a post-tax payroll of around 1.3 million dollars. Semifinalists Fenerbahce announced that this season they plan to cut their payroll to around 1.5 million dollars post-tax.

Sometimes teams and players have salary disputes and contract details become public here:
Basketball Arbitral Tribunal (BAT) - FIBA.basketball

Ketia Swanier and Tina Charles were recently involved in disputes.

The athletic baseline for teams in general is not as high in Europe as in the WNBA. That means that players can be effective players even if they are missing one or two key attributes so you have athletic players with no skills, skilled players with no athleticism, players who would seem too short to play their listed position, players whose conditioning only lets them play limited minutes effectively, and everything in between. The ability to play zone and the physicality allowed does tend to negate fast or athletic players who do not have the skill to make defenses pay.

Makurat is in high demand in Poland because she is Polish and the league is trying to increase the amount of Polish players getting minutes. Even then, the long term goal for her is to prove that she can be a contributing level player on a higher level team and move abroad unless more money comes back to the league, which was hit hard relative to some other countries that were traditionally about the same level. In some leagues, the best players who count domestically are in much higher demand then Americans because below the top level, Americans are fairly interchangeable and there are a lot of them who are willing to take less to try to make a name for themselves in professional basketball. A lot of Americans who qualify for Israeli citizenship take it and play there because the salaries are pretty good, even for players who did not play DI here.

There are some different situations going on in Asia and we will see how things change there as some leagues ran without foreigners this past season. In China, most local players are not paid much and generally live in less great conditions while the lone foreign player lives in a hotel and makes a relative ton of money. In South Korea, the last time they had foreigners, they were all paid around $125,000 after tax depending on how far their team went and accommodations are pretty nice with one foreigner per team. Their fellow starters all make more with the top Koreans making around $400,000 post tax. Kim Roberson, who played at Indiana, is part-Korean so she is able to play as a local there and as a result is one of the highest paid American women playing basketball even though she would be far away from WNBA consideration. The money there is so good that former Rutgers player Chelsey Lee was famously caught in a scandal claiming to have one Korean grandparent.

Audiences are not large and pretty much all ticket prices would seem very low to us in the United States. Some of the costs associated with teams that have to be dealt with here are less of an issue there. There are no college teams to compete with so coaches get paid far less relative to players. Since tickets are cheap, there does not need to be an entire business side of the operation trying to provide customer service or marketing. Travel is generally cheaper and costs for your home facility are cheaper or handled by the local government. Also, in most countries, then men's league players make significantly more than the women's league players as well so there is generally no special appreciation or valuation of women's basketball overseas that is not present here.
 
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The attitude around how sports are viewed and consumed in other countries is also very different. I too once wondered why teams in other countries paid such high salaries for players while the WNBA paid what seemed like a pittance. The league seemed to spend a large amount of money on marketing in their early days to try and draw in viewers and attendees and the results were not great when the numbers came out although some teams did better than others.

While it's easy to recognize the typical WNBA salary is significantly lower than someone would make outside the US there is a reason players who are not US natives still play here and I suspect it's because it also increases their own spotlight and image. Even with non US players being gone every other year for their own national team obligations many still choose to come to the league because they too see a benefit from playing in the WNBA.

Personally I believe the issue of the salaries is less bothersome than the fact teams seem to want to operate on a shoestring budget for other things like travel and accommodations. Those contribute to quality of life in the league every bit as much as base salary.
 
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Interesting professional sports model in Europe. Once worked for a guy who spent two years as a professional water polo player after college. About 20 years ago, he netted over $50K a year when you considered free housing, car, etc. Unlike US teams that are run as true businesses, most European teams, especially basketball, are subsidized from commercial sponsorships. No wonder Diana Taurasi took several years off from US pro league and $60K a year salary to make over $1M per year in Russia.
 
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The last few posts here have been very interesting and informative. Thanks. With NIL in the wings, we could wind up in a situation that sees the top college players earning the kind of money that will make their initial pro contract look like chump change. What will they decide to do? If they already need to hire people to count their money, maybe some decide to pursue other careers. We are heading into uncharted waters.
 

CL82

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The last few posts here have been very interesting and informative. Thanks. With NIL in the wings, we could wind up in a situation that sees the top college players earning the kind of money that will make their initial pro contract look like chump change. What will they decide to do? If they already need to hire people to count their money, maybe some decide to pursue other careers. We are heading into uncharted waters.
The best thing that could happen would be for some significant portion of the money earned during college, over a set amount, be set aside and invested for growth. Kids could walk out of college with a potential best egg, and maybe a quite sizable one. It would also resolve the potential issue of disparity available wages between highly marketable kids and less marketable kids.
 
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The attitude around how sports are viewed and consumed in other countries is also very different. I too once wondered why teams in other countries paid such high salaries for players while the WNBA paid what seemed like a pittance. The league seemed to spend a large amount of money on marketing in their early days to try and draw in viewers and attendees and the results were not great when the numbers came out although some teams did better than others.

While it's easy to recognize the typical WNBA salary is significantly lower than someone would make outside the US there is a reason players who are not US natives still play here and I suspect it's because it also increases their own spotlight and image. Even with non US players being gone every other year for their own national team obligations many still choose to come to the league because they too see a benefit from playing in the WNBA.

Personally I believe the issue of the salaries is less bothersome than the fact teams seem to want to operate on a shoestring budget for other things like travel and accommodations. Those contribute to quality of life in the league every bit as much as base salary.
Part of the problem with the WNBA is a limited number of teams, the argument being—I suppose—to maintain a quality level but if no one is watching, who cares? The Boulder Daily Camera has an excellent sports section, Boulder and Front Range Colorado, being home to fitness and sports junkies, but I don’t think I have ever seen a mention of the WNBA, Colorado being without a team. It is hard to develop a tv audience when no one has heard about you.
 

MooseJaw

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The best thing that could happen would be for some significant portion of the money earned during college, over a set amount, be set aside and invested for growth. Kids could walk out of college with a potential best egg, and maybe a quite sizable one. It would also resolve the potential issue of disparity available wages between highly marketable kids and less marketable kids.
I am generally in agreement with you, on this point not so much if I understand your post. IMO the best college players will take away the bucks just like in the pros. It reads like you see the money earned by the students spread around to lesser or non earners. Another form of socialism, while if Paige were to make a million she may slip a little to her slime, do you think she would fork over bucks for players on every other team, I don't.
Take money from players who earned it put into a general fund for what purpose? Most of them are kids going to college not expecting or deserving a pension for being a student. [ ]
A monster has been created, we as of yet have no idea what will be, I see a true cluster---- in the future.
 
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CL82

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I am generally in agreement with you, on this point not so much if I understand your post. IMO the best college players will take away the bucks just like in the pros. It reads like you see the money earned by the students spread around to lesser or non earners. Another form of socialism, while if Paige were to make a million she may slip a little to her slime, do you think she would fork over bucks for players on every other team, I don't.
Take money from players who earned it put into a general fund for what purpose? Most of them are kids going to college not expecting or deserving a pension for being a student. [ ]
A monster has been created, we as of yet have no idea what will be, I see a true cluster---- in the future.

No, not at all, what I am suggesting is that it would benefit student athletes who have NIL rights to have a potion of that money set aside for them, after some certain amount. In that way they would be, essentially, creating a sinking fund for themselves, that could provide them income after their earning years.

For what it’s worth, I’ve also advocated this for rookie athletes. It is hard to learn how to manage money when all of a sudden you’ve had a busload of it dropped on you. Likewise, it’s hard to know whether the professionals you’ve hired to manage your money, are actually doing a good job. Having a portion of those earning set aside would benefit them dramatically. Don’t get me wrong, I know this is unlikely to happen, but I’ve always thought it was a good idea.
 

MooseJaw

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No, not at all, what I am suggesting is that it would benefit student athletes who have NIL rights to have a potion of that money set aside for them, after some certain amount. In that way they would be, essentially, creating a sinking fund for themselves, that could provide them income after their earning years.

For what it’s worth, I’ve also advocated this for rookie athletes. It is hard to learn how to manage money when all of a sudden you’ve had a busload of it dropped on you. Likewise, it’s hard to know whether the professionals you’ve hired to manage your money, are actually doing a good job. Having a portion of those earning set aside would benefit them dramatically. Don’t get me wrong, I know this is unlikely to happen, but I’ve always thought it was a good idea.
OK, then I was somewhat confused by your original post. However, in regards to you clearing it up for me, I am just as against this as I was against what I thought you originally intended. In theory a good idea, in practice only if it was optional. It is their money and their choice of what to do with it. If as college students they don't have the smarts to handle their finances they can hire someone to help, they can take courses in finance. No matter what is done it is each individuals own choice on how to handle their finances. They will have the right to earn, must others pay to run a monetary fund for them, or take some of their earnings to administer a fund. This is all part of the monster I alluded to in my original response. Teach them, don't take responsibility away from them. I know some will do great with the money some will fail as in any situation. Teach personal responsibility.
 

CL82

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OK, then I was somewhat confused by your original post. However, in regards to you clearing it up for me, I am just as against this as I was against what I thought you originally intended. In theory a good idea, in practice only if it was optional. It is their money and their choice of what to do with it. If as college students they don't have the smarts to handle their finances they can hire someone to help, they can take courses in finance. No matter what is done it is each individuals own choice on how to handle their finances. They will have the right to earn, must others pay to run a monetary fund for them, or take some of their earnings to administer a fund. This is all part of the monster I alluded to in my original response. Teach them, don't take responsibility away from them. I know some will do great with the money some will fail as in any situation. Teach personal responsibility.
I agree with your answer in theory, but in practice we’ve seen far too many athletes who have earned millions and then found themselves without money after retirement. To suggest the answer is always in unequivocally “well throw them in the deep end and see if they can swim” is folly in my opinion. Sophisticated, and actually in this case it’s not even all that sophisticated, financial planning isn’t easy to intuit. sometimes comparison can be the best teacher. As in, you had $1 million, 500,000 was invested for you and the remaining 500,000 you held onto personally. You have none of the 500,000 you’ve held but the $500,000 that was invested for you now is worth 1 million (assumes 7% for 10 years.)
 

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