Rocky Top is No Longer a Prestige Destination

[Sargassoc]

Article from The Athletic

I think it also serves as a potential warning to UConn WBB. The men's team coaching changes (three different coaches winning national championships) show that it can be done, but following a legend is surely some needle to thread.

 

[Stagnant]

UConn really needs to cast a wide net when they do their next coaching search. And honestly, they can learn something from Tennessee.

They shouldn’t be obsessed with the next coach having “UConn DNA.” Geno didn’t have UConn DNA. Identify the best coaching options and interview all of them. Please. 🙏

 

[bballnut90]

Article from The Athletic

I think it also serves as a potential warning to UConn WBB. The men's team coaching changes (three different coaches winning national championships) show that it can be done, but following a legend is surely some needle to thread.

Even the UCONN men have had a rocky path. Ollie won a Cinderella trophy but UCONN was quite mediocre while he was there. There were 10 years of mediocrity between Calhoun's last title and Hurley's ascension.

I think the biggest mistakes Tennessee has made are:
1. They gave Holly Warlick way too long of a leash. She was landing all of these highly touted kids with no results to speak of, the eye test for most of those teams was awful too. From 2016-2019 they had 4 years of just pure mediocrity and didn't make a change until losing at home to Vanderbilt for the first time ever, and it was arguably Vanderbilt's worst team of all time (2-14 in SEC play)

2. After this, they still stuck with the family when there wasn't a strong candidate available. Kellie Harper's track record was decent at best but she would've never been on the radar if she wasn't a notable alum.

3. Perhaps most important, they weren't willing to shell out big bucks to attract bigger name coaches for either Harper or Caldwell's hirings. LSU threw a ton of money at Kim Mulkey and she left the program she's been at for 20 years and it's paying dividends. Texas did the same at Vic to get him to leave Mississippi State and they're a national power now. Tennessee never did the same and reportedly was looking for a cheap hire. If you want top talent, you have to shell out for it. Otherwise you're going to get surpassed by programs that are willing to pay coaches better.

 

[DefenseBB]

Discussing the article, Tennessee is 2-9 in their last 11 games. Not great but I disagree with the "heading". If and when the HC position becomes open again, all but a very few coaches would consider that job. It still has gravitas. Whether the AD will want to pay the money required is the biggest hurdle. The fans still show up (greater than 10,850 per game), they have oodles of NIL money and a rabid VolNation fan base. Caldwell has attracted top 50 recruits (Kellie Jolly Harper struggled to get top notch recruits) so that LV name does resonate.

The article really critiques her style of play as ill-suited for her current crop of players. It is sort of like the "no-huddle" offense that opponents may struggle the first time they see it but after getting enough film, they have it figured out.

Bottom line to me is Caldwell needs to show she has more than a "gimmick" style and can actually teach defense, offensive sets, ball movement and team work. Without that, she is doomed. She comes across a tad arrogant when defending her scheme. It might work in D2 or mid-major level D1 but against the P4 quality, not...so...much.

 

[CL82]

UConn really needs to cast a wide net when they do their next coaching search. And honestly, they can learn something from Tennessee.

They shouldn’t be obsessed with the next coach having “UConn DNA.” Geno didn’t have UConn DNA. Identify the best coaching options and interview all of them. Please. 🙏

True, but before Geno was hired, UConn WBB also didn't have a winning season, so…

 

[WBBTakeover]

UConn really needs to cast a wide net when they do their next coaching search. And honestly, they can learn something from Tennessee.

They shouldn’t be obsessed with the next coach having “UConn DNA.” Geno didn’t have UConn DNA. Identify the best coaching options and interview all of them. Please. 🙏

Ideally, you'd have a mix of both--outsiders and those from the UConn tree.

We see what happens when you try to go with someone off the tree at the expense of all other candidates (Tennessee). However, the opposite can be true when you're deliberate about going with a candidate who isn't part of the tree (Virginia--three times, three duds). Either extreme produces less than satisfactory results.

 

[Stagnant]

True, but before Geno was hired, UConn WBB also didn't have a winning season, so…

Tennessee constantly tried to find someone that had a connection to Pat. Didn’t work. Manchester United sought a connection to Alex Ferguson. Didn’t work. There are a lot of instances of teams and clubs that choose to not evolve and are obsessed with the past.

Our approach to the hire shouldn’t be “okay, who has UConn experience.”

I am not saying he is available or that we can get him. But I do remember Geno himself once said Walz from Louisville would be who he would want. In 2028, or whenever Geno retires; UConn should seek his advice. There might be a new coach he recommends.

 

[CL82]

Tennessee constantly tried to find someone that had a connection to Pat. Didn’t work. Manchester United sought a connection to Alex Ferguson. Didn’t work. There are a lot of instances of teams and clubs that choose to not evolve and are obsessed with the past.

Our approach to the hire shouldn’t be “okay, who has UConn experience.”

I am not saying he is available or that we can get him. But I do remember Geno himself once said Walz from Louisville would be who he would want. In 2028, or whenever Geno retires; UConn should seek his advice. There might be a new coach he recommends.

It's debatable. On one hand, you want to maintain culture, particularly when your culture has been uniquely successful. On the other hand, though, you obviously want someone who's competent. The gold standard is if you can find both.

That said, I feel like it's a waste of energy to be talking about Geno's departure, when he hasn't indicated any plans to do so, and we're in the middle of an amazingly successful season. It feels like we do it every few days here, which to me seems silly. Obviously, feel free if you'd like, but I going to opt out.

 

[Gus Mahler]

I've always thought Walz would be a good choice to replace Geno. I think he could handle the spotlight.

I don't see a UConn alum that fits very well. Shea? Possibly. She is having a great year, and she might go on to have more great years, but why on earth would she leave VU to take on an impossible task? VU and Nashville have so much to offer. And alumni often struggle when they come back home (Roy Williams is an exception, but he was not a star player). I urge UConn admin to try to find the best coach they can get, irrespective of college affiliation.

 

[TheFarmFan]

This article got a lot of play on the Stanford board, in part as a cautionary tale, and in part questioning whether everything said about Tennessee is equally true about Stanford. The Card will always have the potential to be a destination because it has some unique factors that few D1 schools can equal, but I do wonder if the combo of NIL $ + transfer portal + ACC travel has dimmed its potential as a destination.

Tennessee and UConn have slightly different problems - they have more rabid fan bases, but neither school has anything especially distinctive about it beyond one extremely legendary coach, and therefore an illustrious alumni base. And unlike Tennessee, UConn is not in a destination conference, so it'll be really interesting to see whoever replaces Geno tailor their recruiting pitches. I suspect - and fear- UConn will be unable to sustain the past 30 years once Geno retires, if for no other reason than my tried and true adage "they have Geno and you don't" isn't replicable.

 

[Zonepress]

It's debatable. On one hand, you want to maintain culture, particularly when your culture has been uniquely successful. On the other hand, though, you obviously want someone who's competent. The gold standard is if you can find both.

That said, I feel like it's a waste of energy to be talking about Geno's departure, when he hasn't indicated any plans to do so, and we're in the middle of an amazingly successful season. It feels like we do it every few days here, which to me seems silly. Obviously, feel free if you'd like, but I going to opt out.

your second paragraph about sums it up
perfectly!

 

[Viet Vet]

Vanderbilt is a great university, a “near Ivy”, along with Stanford, Duke, Northwestern and Rice. Nashville is a vibrant city. Shea coming to Storrs would be a major lifestyle change with very little professional upside, and lots of downside.

I am a big fan of Shea. I want her to succeed at Vanderbilt, not to be judged as a former UConn star in the shadow of Geno.

 

[bballnut90]

Vanderbilt is a great university, a “near Ivy”, along with Stanford, Duke, Northwestern and Rice. Nashville is a vibrant city. Shea coming to Storrs would be a major lifestyle change with very little professional upside, and lots of downside.

I am a big fan of Shea. I want her to succeed at Vanderbilt, not to be judged as a former UConn star in the shadow of Geno.

I agree with all of this, plus Shea's talked quite a bit about how supported she feels by the athletic department which is huge. They also have a couple of highly ranked recruits on board, 2 more years with Blakes and 3 with Galvan. She's setting up Vanderbilt to compete with Kim, Dawn and Vic for SEC titles the next few years which is an incredible feat for any coach.

That said, I'm sure if UCONN wants her they'll throw a major bag of money her way. I don't see Geno retiring without being heavily involved with transitioning the program to the next of kin, and I'm sure he'll want the coach to be in his family tree. I'd expect a similar process to Coach K with Jon Scheyer or in volleyball with John Cook passing off the program to Dani Busboom-Kelly. But there really isn't a strong UCONN candidate right now outside of Shea, so if it's not her, who is it then?

 

[packwrap]

3. Perhaps most important, they weren't willing to shell out big bucks to attract bigger name coaches for either Harper or Caldwell's hirings. LSU threw a ton of money at Kim Mulkey and she left the program she's been at for 20 years and it's paying dividends. Texas did the same at Vic to get him to leave Mississippi State and they're a national power now. Tennessee never did the same and reportedly was looking for a cheap hire. If you want top talent, you have to shell out for it. Otherwise you're going to get surpassed by programs that are willing to pay coaches better.

Mulkey was the perfect storm. Not just money but a Louisiana girl coming home...and bigger stage, bigger budget, better conference etc.

Was not the routine "go out and hire a big name coach" scenario.

 

[Sargassoc]

I've always thought Walz would be a good choice to replace Geno. I think he could handle the spotlight.

I don't see a UConn alum that fits very well. Shea? Possibly. She is having a great year, and she might go on to have more great years, but why on earth would she leave VU to take on an impossible task? VU and Nashville have so much to offer. And alumni often struggle when they come back home (Roy Williams is an exception, but he was not a star player). I urge UConn admin to try to find the best coach they can get, irrespective of college affiliation.

Not Carla Berube?

 

[Phil]

True, but before Geno was hired, UConn WBB also didn't have a winning season, so…

I think it's fair to say that UConn caught lightning in a bottle. The hiring of Geno and Chris may turn out to go down in history as the greatest higher of all time, but it's not reproducible, at least not with any confidence. There may be some mediocre program who hires some brash assistant, and that program turns into gold, but I guarantee no one will confidently call the hire the next Geno. Anyone claiming that first happened is engaging in revising the recollection to suit the circumstances. There aren't too many models of great programs way to a new coach turns out to be equally great.

I'm on board with the notion that we have to be careful about too much schadenfreude. On will have to address this issue is far off in the future as one can hope but almost certainly sometime in the next few years, and it is almost inconceivable that the program will be described as "continuing without skipping a beat". We have two advantages that Tennessee did not enjoy — the ability to look at Tennessee as a case study, and the likelihood that Geno will give UConn administration more notice than was possible in the case of Pat Summitt. It will still be monumentally tough.

 

[Phil]

May be worth keeping in mind that Rocky Top as a destination looks differently to prospective coaches and prospective players.

Obviously, when attempting to woo either a new coach or a recruit, the school can put together a very impressive documentation of the history of the program. But history that's lived carries more weight than history documented in the record books.

If Tennessee decides they need to consider a coaching change, virtually every serious candidate either watched will probably attended in person the final fours of 2007 and 2008 when Tennessee won back-to-back national champions.

Not a single player recruit will have been alive the last time Tennessee won a national championship.

 

[cancontent]

Mulkey was the perfect storm. Not just money but a Louisiana girl coming home...and bigger stage, bigger budget, better conference etc.

Was not the routine "go out and hire a big name coach" scenario.

Especially after the Nikki Fargas experience. LSU wanted to get back to being a successful program like when Fowles and Augustus were playing for them. Couldn't do any better than Mulkey for their fanbase.

 

[bballnut90]

Not Carla Berube?

She's 30 years removed from the program and has never coached in a Sweet 16. She did a great job at Tufts and is doing great things at Princeton but she's unproven on a bigger stage and doesn't have any experience being around P4 programs as a coach.

May be worth keeping in mind that Rocky Top as a destination looks differently to prospective coaches and prospective players.

Obviously, when attempting to woo either a new coach or a recruit, the school can put together a very impressive documentation of the history of the program. But history that's lived carries more weight than history documented in the record books.

If Tennessee decides they need to consider a coaching change, virtually every serious candidate either watched will probably attended in person the final fours of 2007 and 2008 when Tennessee won back-to-back national champions.

Not a single player recruit will have been alive the last time Tennessee won a national championship.

To extend that, not a single recruit was alive since Tennessee reached a Final Four. And no recruit will have any memory of Pat coaching or being present in women's basketball. After she retired she was hidden from the limelight and wasn't present until she passed. The history of the program will always be there, but there aren't many ties to Pat's era in Knoxville anymore.

 

[JstVisiting]

... I suspect - and fear- UConn will be unable to sustain the past 30 years once Geno retires, if for no other reason than my tried and true adage "they have Geno and you don't" isn't replicable.

UConn should consider it a success if their first post-Geno coach performs at the level of 2020’s Iowa.* He’s the most successful coach of all time. No one is going to live up to his standards, especially if Husky fans consider his standard to be early 2010’s.

* but they won’t. Someone will walk into the same situation as Alabama’s successor to Nick Saban.