Remedial Conference Realignment Board - Intro to UConn and relignment

[CL82]

For those of us who have been following CR for a while, it can be a bit challenging when an poster comes off of another board (cough, cough WBB cough) stops by to say things like, well if we were any good, we'd already be taken. Most of us dutifully try to work them through the narrative, but it is tough, especially when they say things like "well I disagree" or "Oh, I don't think that's true," etc.

So I when I saw a link to this UNC fan piece on the Football board about UConn as a potential 16th member of the ACC, I thought I'd post it hear as a quick and easy way for people to catch up.

The UConn Huskies were strongly considered a favorite to join the ACC when the Big East imploded. The ACC had planned to add Syracuse and UConn, originally wanting the Huskies over Pittsburgh and Louisville. Instead, Boston College blocked the addition of Connecticut due to a dormant grudge originating from BC’s departure from the Big East.

“We didn’t want them in,” former Eagles AD Gene DeFilippo said to the Boston Globe. “It was a matter of turf. We wanted to be the New England team.”

Connecticut would bring a powerful basketball program on both the men’s and women’s side in addition to improving the ACC’s presence on television sets in New York City. We have seen how a New York presence has helped the Big Ten. USA Today reports revenues jumped 33% since adding Rutgers and Maryland.

UConn’s football program is nothing to write home about, but the Huskies have proven in their short history they can compete with major football programs.

Link to article

On edit: The 200 level class can be found in this post:

Let's put in one thread all of our advantages and great qualities that show we really are a P5 school. I'll get it started. Please add to it whatever you can think of.

1) We're a state flagship/land grant/sea grant/space grant school.
2) We're ranked #57 in the U.S. News and World Report list of national schools. We're also the #25 FBS school and the #14 public FBS school according to that list. #57 would place us #2 in the Big 12, only behind the University of Texas at #52.
3) We would rank #3 in the Big 12 in the number of student applications received, trailing only Texas and Baylor.
4) We have a $72 million athletic budget, which is #1 (by a wide margin) over all G5 schools and higher than many P5 schools.
5) We sponsor the most teams in the AAC, and more than many of the P5 schools.
6) We have four national championships in men's basketball.
7) We have eleven national championships in women's basketball.
8) We're the only school to win the men's & women's basketball championship in the same year, and we've done it twice.
9) We've won three men's soccer national championships.
10) Our men's soccer program is consistently among the national leaders in attendance.
11) Our women's soccer team was national runner-up four times.
12) We've won four national championships in field hockey.
13) Our baseball team has been in the NCAA post-season playoffs five times, advanced to the Super Regionals in 2011, and is the current AAC champion.
14) Our men's ice hockey team competes in Hockey East, the top hockey conference in the NCAA.
15) We were one of only three FBS schools to send our football, baseball, men's bb, and women's bb teams to the postseason in 2015-16.
16) Our Director's Cup rank of #57 is between Baylor (#56) and Vanderbilt (#58).
17) We are the dominant college sports brand between Boston and New York City, an area with an approximate population of 20-25 million.
18) Our primary TV market (Hartford-New Haven) is ranked #30. And a large portion of our state lies within the NYC metropolitan area which is the nation's #1 TV market.
19) At the formation of the AAC, it was said by TV executives that UConn and Houston were the top two TV draws in the conference.
20) We are ranked #1 among the states in per capita personal income according to the Information Please almanac (2014).
21) By either significant measure (academic or athletic), UConn's trend has been significantly up over the last 30 years. The good people of Connecticut have been very supportive.

Phew. That took two hours to put together. Please comment, correct, and add whatever you want.

After all that, a typo in the title and I don't think it can be corrected.

 

[SubbaBub]

Are their rules to this conference rejigger thingy? And why doesn't UConn just go independent in FB or drop it all together?

 

[CL82]

Are their rules to this conference rejigger thingy? And why doesn't UConn just go independent in FB or drop it all together?

You are a funny man.

 

[BlueMAB]

If you're capable of critical thinking, then you'll continue to ask "why?", and seek for answers. For those of you intelligent enough to go past a "remedial level", you'll want to ask why the ACC presidents allowed BCU to block us for Pitt. Why did they let the favorite be passed over not once (Pitt) but twice (Louisville)?

There are two possible answers to Pitt:
1) They thought we were replaceable with a similarly valued program, and therefore it wasn't worth pushing BCU to get in line with what was best for the conference.
or
2) BCU holds enough power that they can convince Duke, UNC, et al to do what is in BCU's best interest, rather than the conference's best interest.

With Louisville, we know that FSU and Clemson wanted a superior football product, and not another basketball program. So they blocked us in favor of Ville. Again, the rest of the league let 2 schools decide who to add over UConn.

Why? I'm sure they wanted to keep those schools "happy" so they wouldn't leave, but enough money (see new ACCN deal/GOR) would keep them around either way. So why did they take the second place team over UConn again? Is it because we were replaceable?

Now I'll look forward to my fanhood being questioned, but we can look at what has happened and choose to analyze the "why" at a 301/401 level or we can just say "Flipper did it" and have a remedial 101 understanding.

As the clear choices are dwindled down, our value increases. Certainly we "deserve" to be in a P5. But that has nothing to do with it.

 

[Adios]

How come nelsonmuntz is still posting here???

 

[CL82]

If you're capable of critical thinking, then you'll continue to ask "why?", and seek for answers.

Geesh Diogenes, asking why in the face of facts isn't an indicator of keen intellect; it is that act of petulant toddler. But at least you now acknowledge the narrative, so that's a beginning. Baby steps, right?

So feel free go out and seek the truth on this and report back to us lesser lights. But it would be nice it that truth was more than idle speculation on your part.

 

[Dream Jobbed 2.0]

All we need is a list of PLEASE DO NOT ASK THESE QUESTIONS OR BRING UP THESE TOPICS

 

[BlueMAB]

Geesh Diogenes, asking why in they of facts isn't an indicator of keen intellect; it is that act of petualant toddler. But at least you now acknowledge the narrative, so that's a beginning. Baby steps, right?

So feel free go out and seek the truth on this and report back to us lesser lights. But it would be nice it that truth was more than idle speculation on your part.

I've never denied the narrative, you assumed I didn't know the narrative, I've only tried to get you to think beyond the narrative.

A toddler shows an eagerness to learn by asking why. A petulant toddler refuses to accept the answer when it's given to him/her.

Which one are you?

 

[CL82]

I've never denied the narrative, you assumed I didn't know the narrative, I've only tried to get you to think beyond the narrative.

A toddler shows an eagerness to learn by asking why. A petulant toddler refuses to accept the answer when it's given to him/her.

Which one are you?

Neither, I am the parent who is telling you, quiet honey the adults are talking.

Let's see if quest for truth produces anything other more hot air and speculation. Be sure to post and let us know what you find out.

Until then, feel free to have the last word...

 

[BlueMAB]

Neither, I am the parent who is telling you, quiet honey the adults are talking.

Let's see if quest for truth produces anything other more hot air and speculation. Be sure to post and let us know what you find out.

Until then, feel free to have the last word...

I apologize for interrupting your remedial conversation with critical thinking.

So you're not going to answer the question? I've acknowledged the narrative, are you incapable of taking the conversation a step further? Toddlers can connect the dots, can't you?

It's okay to say "I don't know". But if your'e going to tell me I'm wrong, then you should be able to answer the question for yourself. Otherwise you're just passing yourself off as more intelligent because you refuse to have a deeper discussion than "Flipper did it".

I think you're smart enough to know the answer, but don't like it, so you take your frustrations out on me.

From a guy who introduces the impact of WBB on SNY customers in CT to a discussion of Conference Realignment for the B12, I find that level of arrogance incredibly ironic.

 

[CL82]

All we need is a list of PLEASE DO NOT ASK THESE QUESTIONS OR BRING UP THESE TOPICS

Nah, I think most of us our happy to answer sincere questions. Add this article to @Dooley and Matt's stuff and someone just getting involved would be more or less up to speed.

Edit: Just added a great post by @Redding Husky to my original post above.

 

[AZHuskiePop]

AZ s brief history of CR for the intellectually impaired
Prior to 2016
B1G was a non starter even though I feel it's my favorite cultural fit and the best place for UConn's actualization.
Even if the money was even
But we are non AAU ,a relativity small state with a less than legendary football history and although there was a slight chance of going after the Rutgers add.
We lacked a partner ,our status might have been overlooked if they needed a partner for someone like ND. ( that was my dream, odds against 100-1.)
Contrary to the some on the board Rutgers did not even come close to take a potential spot for us in fact their inclusions actually keep us slightly in play.
Big 12 was never a consideration
It is only now ,because ,they have a contract loophole with short term monetary benefit ,Their media partners stuck it to them,and some of the schools are hanging on expansion to save their conference. They are the Big East 2004-2011.
It does give us a bigger stage in future expansion and short term cash.
SEC
Only possible reason for the Conference to add us is it ,needs another BB school who will battle Kentucky.or they want to have an excuse to visit NY. I don't think the New York market is that important to them. But all these commissioners are pretty delusional so who knows. Not really a serious consideration.
ACC
At the first ACC expansion UConn was just making the transition from what is now FCS to FBS. So we weren't a consideration. We however were seriously impacted by this decision. In reality rather than entering into a respected football conference we entered into a weakened conference whose death was likely. Replacing Miami ,and Va Tech with ,Cinn,and SFU feels a little like the Big 12 replacing Texax A&M ,and Nebraska , with us a Cinn. when they talk football
The second go round or the shot that killed the Big East in 2011 .
Allegedly we were slated to go with Cuse ,football had two 8-3 seasons , and in BB we were about to win our third NC ,Allegedly Pitt was a last minute sub for us when BC black balled us. When you think about it the B12 screwed themselves and us up big time
when they didn't take Pitt, Louisville, and Cinn along with WVA
The last snub is really overstated on this board
The ACC lost a huge piece in Marykand , they were tethering in the brink
If FSU and Ckemson went to the Big 12 ,the ACC reputation as a football conference was in shot.
Louisville was really their only choice
UConn's once bright football future was cracking ,Even the future of BB looked Shakey , Louisville emerged from their sleep enough to make it look like a seamless transaction from Petrino to Strong.But it's their dark interlude that mostly is remembered by UConn fans. All memory is selective.
Our departed local rivals also kind of relished the idea if killing UConn
UConn can make our Dark Interlude disappear slso
To say the process is completely non bias is reducules
The TCU and apparent Houston adds scream good ole boy
Our first ACC snub was a vendetta
The PAC is my second choice , maybe it's because I'm a UConn fan living in Arizona close to ASU ,no that couldn't possibly be the reason.

 

[Waquoit]

That was clever how you put remedial and a misspelled word in the title.

 

[CL82]

That was clever how you put remedial and a misspelled word in the title.

Yeah... uh, it was intended... haha.. that's the ticket...

I am a habitual typo offender. Please accept my apologies for all future mistakes.

 

[Mr. Wonderful]

If you're capable of critical thinking, then you'll continue to ask "why?", and seek for answers. For those of you intelligent enough to go past a "remedial level", you'll want to ask why the ACC presidents allowed BCU to block us for Pitt. Why did they let the favorite be passed over not once (Pitt) but twice (Louisville)?

There are two possible answers to Pitt:
1) They thought we were replaceable with a similarly valued program, and therefore it wasn't worth pushing BCU to get in line with what was best for the conference.
or
2) BCU holds enough power that they can convince Duke, UNC, et al to do what is in BCU's best interest, rather than the conference's best interest.

Are you familiar with how the ACC's expansion committee was structured in 2003 when all this went down? And the exact mechanism, taking advantage of that committee's structure, by which BCU was able to effectively block UConn?

 

[HuskyHawk]

I apologize for interrupting your remedial conversation with critical thinking.

So you're not going to answer the question? I've acknowledged the narrative, are you incapable of taking the conversation a step further? Toddlers can connect the dots, can't you?

It's okay to say "I don't know". But if your'e going to tell me I'm wrong, then you should be able to answer the question for yourself. Otherwise you're just passing yourself off as more intelligent because you refuse to have a deeper discussion than "Flipper did it".

I think you're smart enough to know the answer, but don't like it, so you take your frustrations out on me.

From a guy who introduces the impact of WBB on SNY customers in CT to a discussion of Conference Realignment for the B12, I find that level of arrogance incredibly ironic.

There are some flaws in the assumptions you draw from these moves.

First ACC expansion: Are Pitt and Syracuse more or less on par with UConn? Yes. Stronger in football history, both with good hoops teams at that point, and both with good academics. Markets didn't matter much at that point. The BTN was only a fledgling network and the $$ differences weren't so stark. It cost the ACC nothing to placate the wishes of BC. Word was that ESPN had a list with no preferences among them.

B1G addition of Rutgers and Maryland: $$ and markets driving the bus for the B1G, not athletic performance. Contiguous state schools, AAU and big campuses in huge markets. Prior adds of Nebraska and Penn State shored up the content quality.

ACC back-fill of Louisville: The climate for the ACC has changed. Football has been terrible. BC regressed dramatically. Miami has not returned to glory. VT has regressed. Clemson is good but not great. FSU has a new coach after a down stretch (4 loss seasons in 2010 and 2011). Decision made November of 2012. Simply put, at that precise moment in time the ACC simply had to add a capable football team, one that was in the final four as a #1 the prior year and which won the NC the season they were added.

What any given league needs at any given moment in time will drive their decision process. Had the concept of a league network been front and center for the ACC at either point, it would have added UConn. It wasn't. That doesn't mean that they next move they make may not lead them to UConn. Things have changed again for the ACC. Football has been stronger. They have a network of sorts.

 

[BlueMAB]

Are you familiar with how the ACC's expansion committee was structured in 2003 when all this went down? And the exact mechanism, taking advantage of that committee's structure, by which BCU was able to effectively block UConn?

You mean the 12 person committee? Yes, I am.

Teel Time: Here's the ACC expansion committee the conference tried to keep secret

The answer that many of our fans have refused to accept lies in the following quote, and it's still true today (although to a lesser extent due to the dwindling supply of quality programs)

Power move by ACC - The Boston Globe

"Although BC and UConn are the only FBS schools in New England, BC officials were reluctant to give UConn any more credence. Membership in the ACC would do that.

UConn had already reached milestones that BC had not - including national championships in men’s and women’s basketball and a BCS bid in football. And there was the lawsuit.

Duke and North Carolina, who have thrived as rivals and neighbors, didn’t quite understand the passion behind BC’s argument, but Pittsburgh seemed like a reasonable alternative. (emphasis added) Under Jamie Dixon, Pittsburgh had established itself as a national power in men’s basketball, so the Tobacco Road contingent didn’t argue. Calls were made and invitations were accepted.

Veteran Big East observers could only shake their heads at the irony. Pittsburgh, led by president Mark Nordenberg, was one of BC’s strongest critics when it left the Big East. It blasted BC when it left after being rejected by the ACC the first time and then regrouping with the other Big East schools to formulate a battle plan for survival, with Nordenberg describing BC as the “fox in the henhouse.’’

What prompted the lawsuit by UConn and Pitt was not the jump to the ACC. All the schools involved, including UConn, conceded that if they had been called, they probably would have done the same thing. What caused the rage was the timing, which was after the initial rejection and during what Big East schools considered confidential strategy sessions."

It's amazing to me that people still refuse to accept that there were, and are, "acceptable alternatives" to UConn. It's not just Flipper, and it's not the lawsuit. They thought they could accomplish what they wanted to with other programs, and looking at their new deal and GOR, it seems as if they've succeeded.

I'll let the "adults" get back to the "remedial" conversation now.

 

[HuskyHawk]

You mean the 12 person committee? Yes, I am.

Teel Time: Here's the ACC expansion committee the conference tried to keep secret

The answer that many of our fans have refused to accept lies in the following quote, and it's still true today (although to a lesser extent due to the dwindling supply of quality programs)

Power move by ACC - The Boston Globe

"Although BC and UConn are the only FBS schools in New England, BC officials were reluctant to give UConn any more credence. Membership in the ACC would do that.

UConn had already reached milestones that BC had not - including national championships in men’s and women’s basketball and a BCS bid in football. And there was the lawsuit.

Duke and North Carolina, who have thrived as rivals and neighbors, didn’t quite understand the passion behind BC’s argument, but Pittsburgh seemed like a reasonable alternative. (emphasis added) Under Jamie Dixon, Pittsburgh had established itself as a national power in men’s basketball, so the Tobacco Road contingent didn’t argue. Calls were made and invitations were accepted.

Veteran Big East observers could only shake their heads at the irony. Pittsburgh, led by president Mark Nordenberg, was one of BC’s strongest critics when it left the Big East. It blasted BC when it left after being rejected by the ACC the first time and then regrouping with the other Big East schools to formulate a battle plan for survival, with Nordenberg describing BC as the “fox in the henhouse.’’

What prompted the lawsuit by UConn and Pitt was not the jump to the ACC. All the schools involved, including UConn, conceded that if they had been called, they probably would have done the same thing. What caused the rage was the timing, which was after the initial rejection and during what Big East schools considered confidential strategy sessions."

It's amazing to me that people still refuse to accept that there were, and are, "acceptable alternatives" to UConn. It's not just Flipper, and it's not the lawsuit. They thought they could accomplish what they wanted to with other programs, and looking at their new deal and GOR, it seems as if they've succeeded.

I'll let the "adults" get back to the "remedial" conversation now.

I absolutely agree that the ACC viewed Pitt, UConn and Syracuse as more or less equivalent. That allowed the BC preference to have an impact, negatively for UConn. But please consider what that means...your own analysis. UConn is every bit as much a P5 as Pitt or Syracuse, even in the ACC's eyes.

 

[Mr. Wonderful]

@WingU-Conn: Why, then, is UConn a threat to BCU, but Pittsburgh is not?

 

[BlueMAB]

There are some flaws in the assumptions you draw from these moves.

First ACC expansion: Are Pitt and Syracuse more or less on par with UConn? Yes. Stronger in football history, both with good hoops teams at that point, and both with good academics. Markets didn't matter much at that point. The BTN was only a fledgling network and the $$ differences weren't so stark. It cost the ACC nothing to placate the wishes of BC. Word was that ESPN had a list with no preferences among them.

B1G addition of Rutgers and Maryland: $$ and markets driving the bus for the B1G, not athletic performance. Contiguous state schools, AAU and big campuses in huge markets. Prior adds of Nebraska and Penn State shored up the content quality.

ACC back-fill of Louisville: The climate for the ACC has changed. Football has been terrible. BC regressed dramatically. Miami has not returned to glory. VT has regressed. Clemson is good but not great. FSU has a new coach after a down stretch (4 loss seasons in 2010 and 2011). Decision made November of 2012. Simply put, at that precise moment in time the ACC simply had to add a capable football team, one that was in the final four as a #1 the prior year and which won the NC the season they were added.

What any given league needs at any given moment in time will drive their decision process. Had the concept of a league network been front and center for the ACC at either point, it would have added UConn. It wasn't. That doesn't mean that they next move they make may not lead them to UConn. Things have changed again for the ACC. Football has been stronger. They have a network of sorts.

Paragraph 1: I've said that a dozen times, and all it's gotten is people questioning my fanhood and knowledge of what happened. Yet, you just agreed with my point. We were replaceable.

Paragraph 3: That's not entirely true. Teams were leaving to new conferences for more money due to the TV contracts. Maryland was never a football powerhouse, but FSU and Clemson wanted a football school, so the 2 got what they wanted. The ACC didn't have to add a football school, the ACC could have added UConn with the hopes of locking down the NE market. But FSU/Clemson got their way because....Ville was a suitable replacement.

Final Paragraph: I agree. Needs drive decisions. But the ACC doesn't need UConn, Would we improve their value if we're added? Probably, but we don't know how much they are getting in their new contract. Yes, they COULD add UConn, they could also replace us with Cincy if we aren't available and ND does what they've said they'll avoid at all costs.

But if ND joins, it won't matter who #16 is. ND brings enough value to the table that the ACC could add whoever is left of USF/UCF/Houston/Memphis/UConn/Temple and still have a great league financially.

Edit, I should have included ECU.

 

[BlueMAB]

I absolutely agree that the ACC viewed Pitt, UConn and Syracuse as more or less equivalent. That allowed the BC preference to have an impact, negatively for UConn. But please consider what that means...your own analysis. UConn is every bit as much a P5 as Pitt or Syracuse, even in the ACC's eyes.

I don't expect you to read through my posts and find a quote where I said that UConn doesn't deserve to be in a P5, so I'll save you the time and let you know I didn't. Check my recent posts history in my profile (if it's available) you'll see that just today I said we deserve a seat at the table.

But if you think i'm lying, and I don't think we're suitable for the P5, then please post a quote where I said that.

 

[BlueMAB]

Why, then, is UConn a threat to BCU, but Pittsburgh is not?

Who said they aren't? You're building a strawman here.

Go back and read my posts, and if there's something specific you disagree with quote it and tell me why, otherwise you're wasting our time.

 

[Mr. Wonderful]

Who said they aren't? You're building a strawman here.

It's a legit question.

Why was Pitt preferable to BCU? Not the rest of the ACC, who at the time saw Pitt and UConn as equals. BCU did not. Why?

 

[BlueMAB]

It's a legit question.

Why was Pitt preferable to BCU? Not the rest of the ACC, who at the time saw Pitt and UConn as equals. BCU did not. Why?

I already replied to you with a link to an article that answers the question. Nobody is confused about why BCU didn't want UConn in the ACC. Nobody. You're missing the point.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Paragraph 1: I've said that a dozen times, and all it's gotten is people questioning my fanhood and knowledge of what happened. Yet, you just agreed with my point. We were replaceable.

Paragraph 3: That's not entirely true. Teams were leaving to new conferences for more money due to the TV contracts. Maryland was never a football powerhouse, but FSU and Clemson wanted a football school, so the 2 got what they wanted. The ACC didn't have to add a football school, the ACC could have added UConn with the hopes of locking down the NE market. But FSU/Clemson got their way because....Ville was a suitable replacement.

Final Paragraph: I agree. Needs drive decisions. But the ACC doesn't need UConn, Would we improve their value if we're added? Probably, but we don't know how much they are getting in their new contract. Yes, they COULD add UConn, they could also replace us with Cincy if we aren't available and ND does what they've said they'll avoid at all costs.

But if ND joins, it won't matter who #16 is. ND brings enough value to the table that the ACC could add whoever is left of USF/UCF/Houston/Memphis/UConn/Temple and still have a great league financially.

Edit, I should have included ECU.

At the time the ACC added Louisville, they needed a football school, because the teams they had were all down. Pitt was bad. BC was bad (and no they weren't always and won divisional titles in the ACC), Miami...meh, VT...ok but barely more than that. It was so bad that FSU and Clemson were considering leaving, and so when the proposed additions were UConn and a hot Louisville team with Tedy Bridgewater, and a stronger football fanbase, they demanded the latter. Since Louisville basketball was plenty strong and unlike the B1G, the ACC had no network, UConn's market advantage was reduced and academics is all we had left. It wasn't enough. I'm sure southern culture at Louisville helped as well.

I disagree that #16 doesn't matter. Better is better. It simply is. There isn't any school left except UConn and maybe Temple that could be a viable #16 for the ACC. The B1G was certainly financially set before adding RU and Maryland. If the ACC adds ND, it needs to stake a claim on NY, and Syracuse isn't enough even with ND.