Remakes that are better than original

[CL82]

No question both True Grit movies are good. The difference in the adaptation of both films is that their primary focus is on different characters.

If you have John Wayne in a movie late in his career, most likely you want the story focused on him. So that is what happens in this version of the story.

In the Coen Brothers version of the movie, the focus is more on the girl and how her actions drive the story. While I have never read the source the material, I have an odd feeling that in this way this movie is a bit closer to the original story as it was written.

I have read the original novel, and enjoyed it. It’s a very good read.

To a certain extent I agree with you in that Maddie Ross is the first person voice of the novel. But both of the original version and the new version merely just choose to highlight different vignettes. The end of the Cohen version does pick up the end of the novel, which was interesting to see on screen. On the other hand the end of the original version, though not in keeping with the novel, is a satisfying “feel good“ ending to the movie. Maddie Ross‘s character in the book is a little darker and sadder than in either of the movie versions.

 

[Kolumbo]

remake Days of Thunder was good but original Top Gun was better.

 

[8893]

No question both True Grit movies are good. The difference in the adaptation of both films is that their primary focus is on different characters.

If you have John Wayne in a movie late in his career, most likely you want the story focused on him. So that is what happens in this version of the story.

In the Coen Brothers version of the movie, the focus is more on the girl and how her actions drive the story. While I have never read the source the material, I have an odd feeling that in this way this movie is a bit closer to the original story as it was written.

As I said, it had been a long time since I had seen the original; I was surprised at how much the focus was on Maddie (played by Darby) and felt that she clearly outshone Cockburn.

 

[dbmill]

As I said, it had been a long time since I had seen the original; I was surprised at how much the focus was on Maddie (played by Darby) and felt that she clearly outshone Cockburn.

I've seen the John Wayne/Kim Darby "True Grit" plenty of times (my wife is a big fan of John Wayne westerns). No question that Maddie's role is substantial in this movie, I agree with you on that. Still, John Wayne casts a strong aura of his stardom in his role as Rooster Cogburn. I think this aura changes the focus of the film, and I think it would be safe to say most people consider this a John Wayne movie. And remember, "True Grit" is the movie where Wayne won his Best Actor Oscar.

The Coen Brothers version of "True Grit" is quite a different movie, as the focus is so much more on the Maddie character. It's hard to envision John Wayne being in this version of the movie, or playing this variation of the Rooster Cogburn character. Whatever the case, it is still a quality movie.

 

[Kolumbo]

many have followed but none compare to the original

 

[8893]

And remember, "True Grit" is the movie where Wayne won his Best Actor Oscar.

I didn't remember that. Good point. Gotta say I didn't think it was a tour de force performance from him. I'm guessing it was more of a lifetime achievement award under the guise of an Oscar.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

The best remake of all time is also the greatest movie of all time and that would be Michael Mann’s “Heat”.

Heat was a remake of Mann’s TV Movie, LA Takedown. Which is also a pretty decent movie.

That movie would have been a lot better if Mann had left in the fact that Vincent Hanna (Pacino's character) was wired the whole movie. The movie was already almost 3 hours long, why not just fill in all the holes at that point? Pacino's acting was distracting the whole movie, but it would have made a lot more sense, and made the character more interesting, if the audience knew just how out of control Hanna was.

I watch the movie now through the lens of Hanna on coke. The movie just works better.

 

[ZooCougar]

How do you distinguish a “remake”from “another adaption”? Is it as simple as following the original script? I kind of view it as if you are remaking the same property, , e.g., the same novel, even if you were highlighting different elements of it, it’s a remake.

When you make another adaptation of a source material then it’s a remake.

You can remake an adaptation if you adhering to the interpretation of that adaptation.

A reinterpretation is just another adaptation.

Let’s say JJ Abrams wanted to make Moby Dick but base it on the book. That’s not a remake.

If he wanted to remake one of the old Moby Dick movies, then that’s a remake.

The best most recent example is Dune which is another cinematic interpretation of the book. Not a remake of David Lynch’s film.

 

[dbmill]

I didn't remember that. Good point. Gotta say I didn't think it was a tour de force performance from him. I'm guessing it was more of a lifetime achievement award under the guise of an Oscar.

It would hardly be the only time that someone got an Oscar that was basically substituting for a lifetime achievement award, that's for sure.

 

[8893]

It would hardly be the only time that someone got an Oscar that was basically substituting for a lifetime achievement award, that's for sure.

Agreed. I was just surprised that it didn't appear to be a great performance by Wayne. I grew up a John Wayne fan so I may have a skewed memory of the quality of his performances, but when I think of The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance, which is one of my favorite movies of all time, I remember it as a much stronger and better performance by Wayne. And also nuanced in a way that was very interesting. I remember The Quiet Man--a St. Patrick's Day tradition when I was growing up--as a better performance, too.

 

[CL82]

I didn't remember that. Good point. Gotta say I didn't think it was a tour de force performance from him. I'm guessing it was more of a lifetime achievement award under the guise of an Oscar.

What performances of his do you like better? Off the top of my head, I’d say maybe Quiet Man, maybe Liberty Valance but arguably he’s a supporting actor in that. Keep in mind that Oscars are not only your performance, but the performances of others who are competing against you. All of that said, I do think there was a “body of work“ component to his True Grit Oscar

Edit: Lol, I saw your post above mentioning Liberty Valance and Quiet Man after I had already posted this. Great minds.., right?

 

[dbmill]

Agreed. I was just surprised that it didn't appear to be a great performance by Wayne. I grew up a John Wayne fan so I may have a skewed memory of the quality of his performances, but when I think of The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance, which is one of my favorite movies of all time, I remember it as a much stronger and better performance by Wayne. And also nuanced in a way that was very interesting. I remember The Quiet Man--a St. Patrick's Day tradition when I was growing up--as a better performance, too.

I would add "The Searchers" and "Red River" to that list of excellent John Wayne performances. He is quite good in the "The Quiet Man" as well.

 

[8893]

I would add "The Searchers" and "Red River" to that list of excellent John Wayne performances. He is quite good in the "The Quiet Man" as well.

We watched The Searchers last week, too (the True Grit DVD came in a three-pack of Wayne movies, which included that). I agree that was also a very good Wayne performance.

 

[ZooCougar]

That movie would have been a lot better if Mann had left in the fact that Vincent Hanna (Pacino's character) was wired the whole movie. The movie was already almost 3 hours long, why not just fill in all the holes at that point? Pacino's acting was distracting the whole movie, but it would have made a lot more sense, and made the character more interesting, if the audience knew just how out of control Hanna was.

I watch the movie now through the lens of Hanna on coke. The movie just works better.

Heat is my all time favorite movie. I could go on for days on it.

Heat, like most crime epics are an examination of the conflicts between business and the family.

In this case drugs wouldn’t make sense because the two protagonists are addicted to their work and their professionalism.

In Neil McCaulley’s case there isn’t much difference between his business and his family. His crew is his family. When Chris’s wife starts messing around he takes care of it. He is a criminal monk. It’s not until he gets a girlfriend that he starts getting sloppy.

Vincent Hanna is just like Neil. Except Hanna is on his 2nd or 3rd marriage and his life is in his own words “a train wreck”. His work is his drug. Cocaine would just complicate matters. And it would just become a Tony Scott movie.

Within Neil’s crew you have a gambling addict who loves his wife, an action fiend and another guy who loves his wife. These are all their weaknesses and flaws.

In the coffee scene, which is the key to the whole movie Neil and Vincent see each other as kindred spirits. Neil asks him how he can make moves on the street and have a family. Vincent responds “what are you? A monk”. But Vincent knows he is right.

“If you want to make moves on the street then you can’t have anything in your life that you can’t walk out on in 15 minutes flat if you feel the heat coming around the corner.”

Vincent’s situation comes to a head when his stepdaughter (Portman) attempts suicide in his hotel room. He knows that having others in his life will only lead others to pain and unhappiness.

Neil executes his escape plan with his lady. Which has become something he can’t walk out on until it’s too late.

At the last minute he gets sloppy and chooses to exact revenge on Waingro. But in reality he can’t both escape and kill Waingro.

Perfection.

 

[Waquoit]

Didn't anyone else have an issue with the Glen Campbell performance? He really hurt the original Grit for me.

 

[dbmill]

Didn't anyone else have an issue with the Glen Campbell performance? He really hurt the original Grit for me.

My wife and I are fine with Glen Campbell in True Grit, his performance doesn't bother us. But I don't think you are the only person who has an issue with Glen Campbell's performance in that movie.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Heat is my all time favorite movie. I could go on for days on it.

Heat, like most crime epics are an examination of the conflicts between business and the family.

In this case drugs wouldn’t make sense because the two protagonists are addicted to their work and their professionalism.

In Neil McCaulley’s case there isn’t much difference between his business and his family. His crew is his family. When Chris’s wife starts messing around he takes care of it. He is a criminal monk. It’s not until he gets a girlfriend that he starts getting sloppy.

Vincent Hanna is just like Neil. Except Hanna is on his 2nd or 3rd marriage and his life is in his own words “a train wreck”. His work is his drug. Cocaine would just complicate matters. And it would just become a Tony Scott movie.

Within Neil’s crew you have a gambling addict who loves his wife, an action fiend and another guy who loves his wife. These are all their weaknesses and flaws.

In the coffee scene, which is the key to the whole movie Neil and Vincent see each other as kindred spirits. Neil asks him how he can make moves on the street and have a family. Vincent responds “what are you? A monk”. But Vincent knows he is right.

“If you want to make moves on the street then you can’t have anything in your life that you can’t walk out on in 15 minutes flat if you feel the heat coming around the corner.”

Vincent’s situation comes to a head when his stepdaughter (Portman) attempts suicide in his hotel room. He knows that having others in his life will only lead others to pain and unhappiness.

Neil executes his escape plan with his lady. Which has become something he can’t walk out on until it’s too late.

At the last minute he gets sloppy and chooses to exact revenge on Waingro. But in reality he can’t both escape and kill Waingro.

Perfection.

I agree that the movie is incredible, and I have seen it like 50 times, so I know the arc and the duality of the two characters. The problem remains with the way Pacino played Hanna. The character is clearly bizarre, and Pacino has said that the character was written with a coke problem. Mann cut a clip of Hanna doing blow from the movie. Whether you like the idea of that character on cocaine or not, the character was clearly written that way, and without that perspective, Pacino just comes off like a scenery chewing lunatic.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Shogun - I was initially super pumped for the remake of the 1980 mini-series. I love the book, and think this show could use a remake given that Richard Chamberlain was way too old in the original and I think he sucks anyway. The rest of the cast of the original was pretty awesome though, and I was hoping FX would spend a bit and some bigger names would step up just to be part of a good series.

Unfortunately, looking at IMDB, there are some thin resumes among the actors playing key characters, which is disappointing. I will hope for the best.

 

[ZooCougar]

I agree that the movie is incredible, and I have seen it like 50 times, so I know the arc and the duality of the two characters. The problem remains with the way Pacino played Hanna. The character is clearly bizarre, and Pacino has said that the character was written with a coke problem. Mann cut a clip of Hanna doing blow from the movie. Whether you like the idea of that character on cocaine or not, the character was clearly written that way, and without that perspective, Pacino just comes off like a scenery chewing lunatic.

Well, the character IS a scenery chewing lunatic.

He is so single minded he basically hangs up the phone as soon he finds out one of his men are ok after the the shootout.

He may have been written to be an addict but it was edited out because it would have been superfluous and would have changed the nature of the character too much. His addiction is work, he doesn’t need another addiction.

That’s just the way it is. Sorry.

 

[Kolumbo]

Heat is my all time favorite movie. I could go on for days on it.

Heat, like most crime epics are an examination of the conflicts between business and the family.

In this case drugs wouldn’t make sense because the two protagonists are addicted to their work and their professionalism.

In Neil McCaulley’s case there isn’t much difference between his business and his family. His crew is his family. When Chris’s wife starts messing around he takes care of it. He is a criminal monk. It’s not until he gets a girlfriend that he starts getting sloppy.

Vincent Hanna is just like Neil. Except Hanna is on his 2nd or 3rd marriage and his life is in his own words “a train wreck”. His work is his drug. Cocaine would just complicate matters. And it would just become a Tony Scott movie.

Within Neil’s crew you have a gambling addict who loves his wife, an action fiend and another guy who loves his wife. These are all their weaknesses and flaws.

In the coffee scene, which is the key to the whole movie Neil and Vincent see each other as kindred spirits. Neil asks him how he can make moves on the street and have a family. Vincent responds “what are you? A monk”. But Vincent knows he is right.

“If you want to make moves on the street then you can’t have anything in your life that you can’t walk out on in 15 minutes flat if you feel the heat coming around the corner.”

Vincent’s situation comes to a head when his stepdaughter (Portman) attempts suicide in his hotel room. He knows that having others in his life will only lead others to pain and unhappiness.

Neil executes his escape plan with his lady. Which has become something he can’t walk out on until it’s too late.

At the last minute he gets sloppy and chooses to exact revenge on Waingro. But in reality he can’t both escape and kill Waingro.

Perfection.

I have to watch it again because although I liked it I didn't think it was one of the greats. I like Amy Brenneman but she doesn't seem right for this role for some reason. I think her character should have had a more significant role in the movie but I really have to see it again.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Well, the character IS a scenery chewing lunatic.

He is so single minded he basically hangs up the phone as soon he finds out one of his men are ok after the the shootout.

He may have been written to be an addict but it was edited out because it would have been superfluous and would have changed the nature of the character too much. His addiction is work, he doesn’t need another addiction.

That’s just the way it is. Sorry.

It was LA in the 90's and people were partying. He was a badass, out of control, emotionally damaged person that happened to be a cop. Those aspects of him made the character interesting, and making him a cocaine user would not have changed much. But they needed to do something to explain why the character acts that way.

10 Intense Behind-The-Scenes Facts About Heat

Heat's noir-tinged, sun-drenched portrayal of a crime-ridden L.A. made it an instant classic. Here are 10 intense facts from behind the film's scenes.

screenrant.com

The "was Hanna on coke" issue seems like a Script Supervisor screwup. As far as Pacino was concerned, the character was on coke. Either Mann or the Script Supervisor needed to step in and stop Pacino from playing the character that way during filming, or they needed to put in a scene to explain why Hanna was so nuts. I just assume it was a scene that would have been in the Director's Cut, and then the character seems more real.

 

[ZooCougar]

It was LA in the 90's and people were partying. He was a badass, out of control, emotionally damaged person that happened to be a cop. Those aspects of him made the character interesting, and making him a cocaine user would not have changed much. But they needed to do something to explain why the character acts that way.

10 Intense Behind-The-Scenes Facts About Heat

Heat's noir-tinged, sun-drenched portrayal of a crime-ridden L.A. made it an instant classic. Here are 10 intense facts from behind the film's scenes.

screenrant.com

The "was Hanna on coke" issue seems like a Script Supervisor screwup. As far as Pacino was concerned, the character was on coke. Either Mann or the Script Supervisor needed to step in and stop Pacino from playing the character that way during filming, or they needed to put in a scene to explain why Hanna was so nuts. I just assume it was a scene that would have been in the Director's Cut, and then the character seems more real.

But he’s not a partier. He’s obsessed with chasing criminals. That is his party.

I don’t think you have ever watched this movie.

 

[ZooCougar]

It was LA in the 90's and people were partying. He was a badass, out of control, emotionally damaged person that happened to be a cop. Those aspects of him made the character interesting, and making him a cocaine user would not have changed much. But they needed to do something to explain why the character acts that way.

10 Intense Behind-The-Scenes Facts About Heat

Heat's noir-tinged, sun-drenched portrayal of a crime-ridden L.A. made it an instant classic. Here are 10 intense facts from behind the film's scenes.

screenrant.com

The "was Hanna on coke" issue seems like a Script Supervisor screwup. As far as Pacino was concerned, the character was on coke. Either Mann or the Script Supervisor needed to step in and stop Pacino from playing the character that way during filming, or they needed to put in a scene to explain why Hanna was so nuts. I just assume it was a scene that would have been in the Director's Cut, and then the character seems more real.

Script supervisor screw up? Michael Mann is an auteur. He has a vice grip on every molecule of his productions.


Script supervisor screw up LOL!

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Script supervisor screw up? Michael Mann is an auteur. He has a vice grip on every molecule of his productions.


Script supervisor screw up LOL!

So you think Pacino is lying about why he played Hanna that way. Not much more to discuss then.

 

[ZooCougar]

So you think Pacino is lying about why he played Hanna that way. Not much more to discuss then.

It simply doesn’t matter. If he acts like a coke fiend who actually is criminal fiend then that works, because that is actually what he is.

Having him on coke would have detracted from the story.

 

[Kolumbo]

Maybe we can assume he was coked up.

 

[ZooCougar]

Maybe we can assume he was coked up.

Nah. He’s just bombastic to intimidate. It’s an act.