reflections on huskies v. gamecocks, 2020

[PacoSwede]

just saw video of the scarolina v huskies regular season game during paige, nika and liya's frosh year. exciting game. it was the one that went into overtime after boston missed two point-blank putbacks at the end of regulation. paige took over in the extra stanza, which ended with her final three-pointer that bounced off the iron, rebounded directly up several feet, then fell delightfully through the net (swish). legendary!

everybody remembers it. but rewatching the whole game was eye-opening. a struggle for both teams -- nothing was very good except the excitement; i suppose the defense ruled.

what struck me was who made large impacts.

no surpise that paige was dominant (solid but not spectatular until crunch time). however, i didn't recall that aubrey, nika and liya were on the floor for much of the game. nika played the point, with liya complementing liv and sometimes going solo inside. both were amazing as freshmen. AND, i didn't remember aubrey (then a soph) having such a significant impact, especially on the boards and with her defense. she, paige and nika caused real disruptions in the enemies' offensive plans.

all four played more effectively than christyn and evina, the upperclassmen, who were absent for the bulks of the game. liv, OTOH, gave good minutes. christyn was particularly weak. (yeah, i know, i know, she allegedly was the crackerjack defender; i didn't glimpse it in this game ... and her offense sucked).

liya wasn't today's liya (AA caliber) but she was solid. nika was, surprisingly, much like her present self -- no fouling issues and she managed the point very well. she was not as aggressive on defense as today, but was still effective. OTOH, she tried to score more than she does now, with some success, notably by driving to the hoop -- fearless, or stupid, facing the imposing foe. as a freshman, she displayed similar energy and enthusiam as she still does -- it just wasn't noticed at the time, at least by me. i think her reputation was devalued in comparison to that other freshman guard.

in the end, paige's magic was noticed. seeing it again makes her absence more heartbreaking.

 

[Brewski]

Good post @PacoSwede and good decision making. I would definitely pick this game to watch over the two we played with them last year. And to think we almost had to play them 3 times last year! I have to say at this point I am apprehensive about the Feb 5 game coming up. Can't wait to get sweet Azzi back on the court to alleviate my concerns.

 

[Bone Dog]

I've watched this game a few times in the last two years -- thank you @MJL243 -- and find new lessons in it almost every time.

Paige was awesome and SC had no answer for her. Her awesome was on full display here. Without her scoring in the 4th q and in OT, there's no way we win this game. This may have been the beginning of the "Paige watching" habit the rest of the team developed, just waiting for Paige to do something spectacular.

Liv was tremendous -- she didn't dominate Boston by any means, but she was a force in her own right.

Saxton got in foul trouble early. Might have had a different result if she'd been on the floor longer. Amihere was a non-factor. Aaliyah seemed a bit green compared to Boston, but when Liv was on the floor next to her, or when Aubrey was on the floor, SC was not able to control the paint as effectively as they usually did to opponents.

We made mistakes and so did they. The pressure was really high for this #1 vs #2 game and both teams really felt it.

Dawn made what seemed like coaching errors in the second half, including calling a timeout when SC had the momentum. It caught me by surprise seeing it. Later, she complained about the game ball used, a different brand then her team was used to.

Nika played well, and did a good job keeping Henny in check.

Beal was tasked with playing deny defense on Paige, which was pretty effective in the first half. But in the second half, and especially the 4th quarter, Paige was able to do pretty much whatever she wanted. Paige's midrange pop-up jumper off the dribble was pretty much unstoppable. It's such a potent weapon, and it amazes me that more guards don't make a point of developing one.

When I think about whether we can beat SC this year, I think of this game. SC is rather similar to what they were in this game, better in some ways, but also weaker in others. But UConn is very much changed from that game. No Paige, of course, though Azzi is an interesting piece to play a similar function. Lou and Caroline represent elements we lacked in that earlier game. If all 3 are shooting well, that is a formidable advantage. On the other hand, Boston Cardoso Saxton and Amihere are significantly better than that team was two years ago. Aaliyah and Dorka and Aubrey are not a match for that front court by themselves. If we had Ice, and if Ayanna had been further along in her development, I think we'd be a better match for them. But that is not our situation. So, the question this year's game will turn on is whether our backcourt is enough better on our side than their front court is on their side. I can hardly wait to see how it plays out.

 

[Centerstream]

Swerve: I just watched the replay of this season's game against Iowa. What a great back and forth battle...until Azzi, Aaliyah and Caroline took over the second half.
Swerve back to the OP.
Another of my replay rules is that I won't watch the games of anyone that is on the schedule and we haven't played yet.

 

[Littlemin]

Uconn has to prove they are tough enough to play with South Carolina, plain and simple. Throw stats out the window, throw player comparisons in the same place; it really boils down to standing up to their physicality because like their style or not, rotten shooting or not, they win on sheer toughness more than anything. Toughness on defense but especially on the boards.

 

[Huskee11]

The optimistic case is that we should be able to hold them to 65 or less and while we might not get a lot in transition, we have a few players like Azzi, Lou, Caroline and Aaliyah who should be able to manufacture a decent shot when the offense breaks down and the shot clock is running down, like Paige in 2021.

That, and staying out of foul trouble especially early.

 

[Topdawg]

I was watching the South Carolina / Georgia game earlier today. The matched zone offense was quite effective in the first half and Georgia was able to maintain the lead. For UCONN to win this year, strong defense will have to be sustained for 40 minutes. On the offense, good ball movement, screens, and quick shots (3s and mid-range 2s) will be needed. With limited scoring opportunities, even Nika will need to take jump shots. Or we may need long stretches with Azzi, Lou, Caroline, Aaliyah, and Dorka.

How well things work out when you coach from a couch!

 

[genzhusk]

Dawn accustomed that loss to having to use a subpar Nike ball. I thought about how if this is true, all UConn’s wins over the years is super impressive having to use such varying quality of basketballs (LOL).

 

[BobbyJ]

Uconn has to prove they are tough enough to play with South Carolina, plain and simple. Throw stats out the window, throw player comparisons in the same place; it really boils down to standing up to their physicality because like their style or not, rotten shooting or not, they win on sheer toughness more than anything. Toughness on defense but especially on the boards.

Exactly. I tend to throw stats out the window most of the time too but there are 4 that illustrate your points. Last 4 games vs SC: 55 PPG, 39% shooting, 24% 3 pt. shooting, and only 7 FTs per game. When SC (or any good defensive team) attacks the high ball screens and jams up the perimeter passing, UConn can't see through or run their sets through pressure. And with the inside game shut down, they have no one other than Bueckers who can create shots through that type of pressure. That's what produces only 7 FTs per game. I'd like to be wrong but this year's team doesn't pass as well as last year's did and that didn't work, so I don't see a different result. And I won't mention UConn's interior defense against the size of SC. Next year may be a different story.

 

[Bone Dog]

BY folks have been calling for more toughness since April and maybe there's something to it. But it's not about being big and strong. We are plenty big and strong enough to challenge SC in the paint. I mean, after watching the Georgia game yesterday, they played SC plenty tough for the first half and led 29-26, largely on the strength of Warren's 3pt shooting, and they played no one taller than 6'3", and none of their posts are "bruisers." It was mainly Brittany Smith in the post until she got in foul trouble, and she's not even an imposing 6'3", yet she was able to hold her own and even score over Boston.

Georgia wasn't able to sustain their advantage in the second half, which isn't surprising, given the character of their team. Cooke went on a tear, and they shut down Battles and Warren in the second half, and Georgia had no other answers. But it shows pretty clearly that the challenge to SC doesn't have to come from sheer size and strength. Defensive intensity combined with good perimeter shooting seems to be the key. We can do that, but we need to do it for 40 minutes.

 

[Littlemin]

Exactly. I tend to throw stats out the window most of the time too but there are 4 that illustrate your points. Last 4 games vs SC: 55 PPG, 39% shooting, 24% 3 pt. shooting, and only 7 FTs per game. When SC (or any good defensive team) attacks the high ball screens and jams up the perimeter passing, UConn can't see through or run their sets through pressure. And with the inside game shut down, they have no one other than Bueckers who can create shots through that type of pressure. That's what produces only 7 FTs per game. I'd like to be wrong but this year's team doesn't pass as well as last year's did and that didn't work, so I don't see a different result. And I won't mention UConn's interior defense against the size of SC. Next year may be a different story.

Well, many here get annoyed so I reluctantly comment on Bueckers at all but in the NC game last year she took only 13 shots in 39 minutes; coincidentally she also took the same 13 in 40 minutes against Arizona in the FF loss the year before, so I am not sure I agree with the widely held sentiments about her being able (or maybe it is willing) to hunt for and create her own shot. On the other hand, she certainly did do that spectacularly in the tourney last year against NC State, but never attempted to take over by hunting shots in either of the aforementioned losses. That somewhat selfish aspect of playing is a mindset maybe she just doesn’t possess, as good as she is.

 

[Bone Dog]

Well, many here get annoyed so I reluctantly comment on Bueckers at all but in the NC game last year she took only 13 shots in 39 minutes; coincidentally she also took the same 13 in 40 minutes against Arizona in the FF loss the year before, so I am not sure I agree with the widely held sentiments about her being able (or maybe it is willing) to hunt for and create her own shot. On the other hand, she certainly did do that spectacularly in the tourney last year against NC State, but never attempted to take over by hunting shots in either of the aforementioned losses. That somewhat selfish aspect of playing is a mindset maybe she just doesn’t possess, as good as she is.

Against Arizona, Paige only got 13 shots because Aari MacDonald was playing ball deny defense on her, and she has the energy to do it. For UConn to succeed against that defense, someone else has to step up, hit some shots, and make Arizona switch defensive schemes... and no one else did. There's one almost comical moment when Paige gets the ball and Aari slipped and fell, and Paige promptly sank a 3. It was that kind of game.

This leads me to believe that the "hunting shots" image doesn't really fit either of those games. You can't hunt your shot if you're the only threat, which is what happened in each game. This says to me that we have to have more than one scoring threat this time around. I'll leave it up to everyone else to decide if we have more than one scoring threat this year. But I will observe that in SC's close call against Georgia -- don't worry, I know what the final score was -- the bulk of the scoring came from Cooke, and mostly in the second half. Imagine what would have happened if Georgia had been able to sustain their defensive pressure against her for the entire game.

 

[Littlemin]

Against Arizona, Paige only got 13 shots because Aari MacDonald was playing ball deny defense on her, and she has the energy to do it. For UConn to succeed against that defense, someone else has to step up, hit some shots, and make Arizona switch defensive schemes... and no one else did. There's one almost comical moment when Paige gets the ball and Aari slipped and fell, and Paige promptly sank a 3. It was that kind of game.

This leads me to believe that the "hunting shots" image doesn't really fit either of those games. You can't hunt your shot if you're the only threat, which is what happened in each game. This says to me that we have to have more than one scoring threat this time around. I'll leave it up to everyone else to decide if we have more than one scoring threat this year. But I will observe that in SC's close call against Georgia -- don't worry, I know what the final score was -- the bulk of the scoring came from Cooke, and mostly in the second half. Imagine what would have happened if Georgia had been able to sustain their defensive pressure against her for the entire game.

Well, we just disagree. Bueckers was able to hunt shots against NC State last year when the game was on the line and no one else was stepping up.
Bueckers was the NPOY that year, wasn’t she? I guess MacDonald should have been if she was able to single-handedly take Bueckers out of the game. And “generational” players take over games or go down trying to make plays, either for themselves or their teammates; they don’t wait for others to pick up the slack.
Anyway, this is an old argument I have raised before and I was wrong to re-visit it; sincerely, my bad and my last word on the subject.

 

[Bone Dog]

Well, we just disagree. Bueckers was able to hunt shots against NC State last year when the game was on the line and no one else was stepping up.
Bueckers was the NPOY that year, wasn’t she? I guess MacDonald should have been if she was able to single-handedly take Bueckers out of the game. And “generational” players take over games or go down trying to make plays, either for themselves or their teammates; they don’t wait for others to pick up the slack.
Anyway, this is an old argument I have raised before and I was wrong to re-visit it; sincerely, my bad and my last word on the subject.

How did we switch to the NC State game? Was anyone playing deny defense on Paige in that game? I don't think so.

Also, In the NC St game, other players did step up. You're only remembering the OT, when Paige took over.

Aari face guards Paige in the Arizona game in which the rest of her team doesn't step up, this is your argument her getting the NPoY? Puhleeeze. And exactly how did we end up on this tangent?

It sounds like you're arguing merely for the sake of arguing. But I've gotten fixated on hobby horses before, so I can't really blame you. Let's round up our hobby horses and ride!!!

 

[Littlemin]

How did we switch to the NC State game? Was anyone playing deny defense on Paige in that game? I don't think so.

Also, In the NC St game, other players did step up. You're only remembering the OT, when Paige took over.

Aari face guards Paige in the Arizona game in which the rest of her team doesn't step up, this is your argument her getting the NPoY? Puhleeeze. And exactly how did we end up on this tangent?

It sounds like you're arguing merely for the sake of arguing. But I've gotten fixated on hobby horses before, so I can't really blame you. Let's round up our hobby horses and ride!!!

Puhleeze, with the condescending nonsense. Bueckers has been face guarded forever, you seem to know enough ball to know that great players do not allow themselves to get taken out of the game that easily. I am an idiot to get sucked into these conversations, some on this board, you obviously included, always have someone else to blame when anyone thinks Bueckers does anything less that walk on water.

 

[GoChips20]

I've watched this game a few times in the last two years -- thank you @MJL243 -- and find new lessons in it almost every time.

Paige was awesome and SC had no answer for her. Her awesome was on full display here. Without her scoring in the 4th q and in OT, there's no way we win this game. This may have been the beginning of the "Paige watching" habit the rest of the team developed, just waiting for Paige to do something spectacular.

Liv was tremendous -- she didn't dominate Boston by any means, but she was a force in her own right.

Saxton got in foul trouble early. Might have had a different result if she'd been on the floor longer. Amihere was a non-factor. Aaliyah seemed a bit green compared to Boston, but when Liv was on the floor next to her, or when Aubrey was on the floor, SC was not able to control the paint as effectively as they usually did to opponents.

We made mistakes and so did they. The pressure was really high for this #1 vs #2 game and both teams really felt it.

Dawn made what seemed like coaching errors in the second half, including calling a timeout when SC had the momentum. It caught me by surprise seeing it. Later, she complained about the game ball used, a different brand then her team was used to.

Nika played well, and did a good job keeping Henny in check.

Beal was tasked with playing deny defense on Paige, which was pretty effective in the first half. But in the second half, and especially the 4th quarter, Paige was able to do pretty much whatever she wanted. Paige's midrange pop-up jumper off the dribble was pretty much unstoppable. It's such a potent weapon, and it amazes me that more guards don't make a point of developing one.

When I think about whether we can beat SC this year, I think of this game. SC is rather similar to what they were in this game, better in some ways, but also weaker in others. But UConn is very much changed from that game. No Paige, of course, though Azzi is an interesting piece to play a similar function. Lou and Caroline represent elements we lacked in that earlier game. If all 3 are shooting well, that is a formidable advantage. On the other hand, Boston Cardoso Saxton and Amihere are significantly better than that team was two years ago. Aaliyah and Dorka and Aubrey are not a match for that front court by themselves. If we had Ice, and if Ayanna had been further along in her development, I think we'd be a better match for them. But that is not our situation. So, the question this year's game will turn on is whether our backcourt is enough better on our side than their front court is on their side. I can hardly wait to see how it plays out.

As a Gamecocks fan I watch every press conference Dawn does and I remember groaning out loud when I heard the comment about the type of ball. She never should have said that. Some fans of other programs still haven’t let us live it down. It wasn’t the reason we lost.

I will say that 2020-21 team was pretty handily the weakest squad of the four teams featuring Boston & Co. and that team came a putback away from a better-than-even shot at a title. I am curious in what areas you think this year’s SC team is weaker than that one?

 

[Bone Dog]

Puhleeze, with the condescending nonsense. Bueckers has been face guarded forever, you seem to know enough ball to know that great players do not allow themselves to get taken out of the game that easily. I am an idiot to get sucked into these conversations, some on this board, you obviously included, always have someone else to blame when anyone thinks Bueckers does anything less that walk on water.

I've "liked" lots of your posts, but not this one. Disagreeing with you is apparently forbidden. I have never faulted you for being critical of Paige. I just don't share your view. I think she deserved that NPoY award freshman year, and I think it is also instructive to reflect on why Clark or Boston or Jones didn't get it.

And no, Paige was not face guarded every game in that year. Aari did a much better job of trying to contain her than Didi did for Baylor, or Beal did for SC. I think this was because Aari was much quicker than either of them, but also because the rest of the team didn't show up.

So, feel free to disagree with me. I won't resent it, the way you seem to do. And don't obfuscate, like you did in the previous post. I think your account of the NC St game was inaccurate, and it was an unsuitable extension of the point you tried to make about her inability to hunt her shots in the other games. Who exactly was face guarding Paige in that game? But I agree with you that the "hunting shots" metaphor is not often helpful.