Rebounding

[codger]

Maybe Geno needs to adopt Kevin Ollie's new practice drill to improve blocking out for rebounds.

UConn has lost the rebound battle 5 times so far this year, including last night against Georgetown, even though Georgetown doesn't have a real inside presence.

 

[bruinbball]

UConn had a plus 3 margin yesterday if I remember correctly.

 

[trisailin]

UConn has lost the rebound battle 5 times so far this year, including last night against Georgetown, even though Georgetown doesn't have a real inside presence.

Hey why let facts get in the way of posting an embedded idea.
Looking at the box from http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/womens-basketball/boxscore?gid=201301090229
the actual margin was +5.
So bruin - you were pretty close to right.

 

[Replicant]

I must be a happy idiot. It seems like there's been an unusually large amount of criticism of our play of late and I'm wondering what it is I'm missing?

We are currently 13-1, not 1-13. Of those 14 games, (6) or 43% have been against ranked teams. We are currently #1 in the nation in assists, scoring offense, scoring defense, scoring margin, opponent FG %, #3 in 3's made per game, #8 in 3 pt %, #15 in rebound margin....and we won "ugly" last night by 28!

What am I missing?

 

[speedoo]

Hey why let facts get in the way of posting an embedded idea.
Looking at the box from http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/womens-basketball/boxscore?gid=201301090229
the actual margin was +5.
So bruin - you were pretty close to right.

Yeah, damn facts. UConn is +9.9 per game in rebounds for the season.

Only game I know of where UConn was outrebounded was ND which outrebounded us 45-44.

 

[bruinbball]

Hey why let facts get in the way of posting an embedded idea.
Looking at the box from http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/womens-basketball/boxscore?gid=201301090229
the actual margin was +5.
So bruin - you were pretty close to right.

Watch out for faulty data. It was +3. Only the official box scores matter
http://www.uconnhuskies.com/sports/w-baskbl/stats/2012-2013/010913.html

 

[meyers7]

Counting DeadBall rebounds (per UCONN official boxscores)


Charleston 45 - 31
Texas A&M 43 – 29
Wake Forest 44 – 32
Marist 44 – 24
Purdue 36 - 27
Colgate 44 – 28
Maryland 39 – 41
Penn St 41 - 43
Oakland 57 – 30
Hartford 35 – 23
Stanford 42 – 49
Oregon 50 – 38
Notre Dame 46 – 48
Georgetown 46 - 46

 

[doggydaddy]

I must be a happy idiot. It seems like there's been an unusually large amount of criticism of our play of late and I'm wondering what it is I'm missing?

We are currently 13-1, not 1-13. Of those 14 games, (6) or 43% have been against ranked teams. We are currently #1 in the nation in assists, scoring offense, scoring defense, scoring margin, opponent FG %, #3 in 3's made per game, #8 in 3 pt %, #15 in rebound margin....and we won "ugly" last night by 28!

What am I missing?

You ain't missing anything. Some posters like to look for went wrong, point the finger at the coach or specific players, even in 27 point wins. And some posters don't.

So, they will post in what some consider a negative fashion, and some will respond to counter those negative posts.

The rest just read both sides and go on their merry way, thinking both ends of the spectrum should get a life...lol.

 

[semper]

For some reason, I'm not able to post messages any more. I get an error message. So I'm experimenting and trying to figure out why. You may get some strange stuff.

 

[codger]

I don't like to look for what is wrong. I want to see the team get better.

Being a fan and a "homer" doesn't prevent me from seeing, game after game, that UConn's boxing out is inconsistent. I hope it gets better.

 

[meyers7]

For some reason, I'm not able to post messages any more. I get an error message. So I'm experimenting and trying to figure out why. You may get some strange stuff.

How will we be able to tell?

 

[Replicant]

I don't like to look for what is wrong. I want to see the team get better.

Being a fan and a "homer" doesn't prevent me from seeing, game after game, that UConn's boxing out is inconsistent. I hope it gets better.

Point noted and you're probably taking a bit of heat by association with other perceived negative posts of late. It all reminds me of the old joke about the obstinate little sparrow...

Once upon a time there was a nonconforming sparrow who decided not to fly south for the winter. None of the other sparrows could change his mind and so he began to head north alone. However, the weather soon turned so cold that he reluctantly started to fly south. But he'd gone too far and in a short time ice began to form on his wings and he fell to earth in a barnyard, almost frozen. A cow passed by and crapped on the little sparrow.

The sparrow thought it was the end. But the manure warmed him and defrosted his wings. Warm and happy, able to breath, he started to sing.

Just then a large cat came by and, hearing the chirping, investigated the sounds. The cat cleared away the manure, found the chirping sparrow and promptly ate him.

The moral of the story:

• Everyone who ts on you is not necessarily your enemy.
• Everyone who gets you out of is not necessarily your friend.
• And if you're warm and happy in a pile of , keep your mouth shut!

Obviously, UConn women's bball is the farthest thing from the aforementioned manure...but you get the point.

 

[boontonbomber]

since uconn is #15 in rebound differential, which is it's worst stat, maybe codger is not completely off base with his comment. i don't think we see a whole lot of rebounding basics with this group. seems like a lot of the rebounds are a function of hustle and athleticism, as in kelly and kaleena, not because of good boxouts,etc. dolson's basics are less than basic. a bit less work on the outside shot, and a bit more work on offensive rebounding . those are easier shots to make. uconn was out-rebounded in their toughest match-ups - maryland,penn st. , stanford and notre dame.

 

[UConn Sal]

UConn had a plus 3 margin yesterday if I remember correctly.

Against G'town it should have been double digits. Against duke the game would have been in question. I agree that more people need to block out Megan Culmo stated as much during the broadcast and coach has repeatedly said so that is why I started the thread on Dolson.

 

[UConn Sal]

Counting DeadBall rebounds (per UCONN official boxscores)


Charleston 45 - 31
Texas A&M 43 – 29
Wake Forest 44 – 32
Marist 44 – 24
Purdue 36 - 27
Colgate 44 – 28
Maryland 39 – 41
Penn St 41 - 43
Oakland 57 – 30
Hartford 35 – 23
Stanford 42 – 49
Oregon 50 – 38
Notre Dame 46 – 48
Georgetown 46 - 46

You are proving Codger's point against top 4 teams UConn has played they have been out rebounded and against G'town the should have had a double if not a triple digit edge as G'town doesn't have the talent in the post that we do.

 

[msf22b]

From following the game on the computer (game tracker) rather than seeing it, it sure seemed like G'town was getting a whole lot of offensive boards. That of course is anecdotal, not scientific.
Seems when Stewie came in the board situ improved.
It also seemed that all we did was take 3's.
Is no other offense possible when the middle is packed?

Heh. Codger: seems like everyone who joins the board and is in any way critical is "labeled" as negative.
It's almost like an initiation rite.
Don't take it personally, as you continue to post, it dissipates.

 

[UConn Sal]

From following the game on the computer (game tracker) rather than seeing it, it sure seemed like G'town was getting a whole lot of offensive boards. That of course is anecdotal, not scientific.
Seems when Stewie came in the board situ improved.
It also seemed that all we did was take 3's.
Is no other offense possible when the middle is packed?

Heh. Codger: seems like everyone who joins the board and is in any way critical is "labeled" as negative.
It's almost like an initiation rite.
Don't take it personally, as you continue to post, it dissipates.

Not always but I like your post.

 

[Replicant]

since uconn is #15 in rebound differential, which is it's worst stat, maybe codger is not completely off base with his comment. i don't think we see a whole lot of rebounding basics with this group. seems like a lot of the rebounds are a function of hustle and athleticism, as in kelly and kaleena, not because of good boxouts,etc. dolson's basics are less than basic. a bit less work on the outside shot, and a bit more work on offensive rebounding . those are easier shots to make. uconn was out-rebounded in their toughest match-ups - maryland,penn st. , stanford and notre dame.

We're the #1 team in the nation in almost half of all the team metrics counted. It's absurd to suggest that any team could possibly perform better. And when did #15 in rebounding out of 300+ schools make anyone chopped liver.

That said, there's a damn good reason this year's squad won't be top 5 in the category and it's not because of any deficiency...quite the contrary, it's the Yin-Yang of our style of play.

We're a full court team that pushes the ball. We don't sit in static half court offensive sets as much as any of the teams you mentioned, so we've constantly got guards committed to breaking downstream for outlet passes...leaving less available personnel to scrum for defensive boards. That translates into a nation leading 85 ppg...call it the Yin!

Next, we lead the nation in assists and FG% which means we convert at a higher rate than anyone else and don't get, or need the added offensive boards most teams live and die by...that's why Stanford needs Chiney to be the best rebounder in the nation. And there's the Yang!

Next, we're a leading 3 pt shooting team which translates into longer rebounds on misses and negates the criticism of our BIGS even further.

And given all that, we were out rebounded by a meager 2 boards in 3 of the 4 games you cited as evidence of some possible deficiency. And in the Stanford game there was only a 5 board differential, which again belies the notion of a deficiency because we cleared the bench with approx. 5 minutes left in garbage time. I checked, they had 3 more boards than us during that time frame.

 

[Kibitzer]

"There are liars, damned liars, and statisticians." [variously attributed, but usually to Harry Truman]

Stats are useful but can occasionally either be deceiving or cause the casual fan to draw incorrect conclusions. Permit one example.

The simplistic and logical conclusion to be drawn from "assists" is that the player with the most assists is the best passer. Very sensible. BUT. . .

A passer only gets an assist when the recipient of the pass scores a basket. No credit at all for a great pass and a blown layup. I know for certain that at least one (and probably many more) NBA team keeps track of "would be assists" by whatevern name -- those excellent passes followed by an errant shot.

Similarly, as has been noted, misses of 3-point shots often clang out to guards, far beyond those players muscling for position close to the basket. This can neutralize -- even penalize -- players who are gallantly boxing out their opponent down low.

And this is why coaches rely on "film," or videotape, because the trained naked eye is more reliant than the box score as a means of measuring hustle.

 

[boontonbomber]

We're the #1 team in the nation in almost half of all the team metrics counted. It's absurd to suggest that any team could possibly perform better. And when did #15 in rebounding out of 300+ schools make anyone chopped liver.

That said, there's a damn good reason this year's squad won't be top 5 in the category and it's not because of any deficiency...quite the contrary, it's the Yin-Yang of our style of play.

We're a full court team that pushes the ball. We don't sit in static half court offensive sets as much as any of the teams you mentioned, so we've constantly got guards committed to breaking downstream for outlet passes...leaving less available personnel to scrum for defensive boards. That translates into a nation leading 85 ppg...call it the Yin!

Next, we lead the nation in assists and FG% which means we convert at a higher rate than anyone else and don't get, or need the added offensive boards most teams live and die by...that's why Stanford needs Chiney to be the best rebounder in the nation. And there's the Yang!

Next, we're a leading 3 pt shooting team which translates into longer rebounds on misses and negates the criticism of our BIGS even further.

And given all that, we were out rebounded by a meager 2 boards in 3 of the 4 games you cited as evidence of some possible deficiency. And in the Stanford game there was only a 5 board differential, which again belies the notion of a deficiency because we cleared the bench with approx. 5 minutes left in garbage time. I checked, they had 3 more boards than us during that time frame.

your yin and yang in no way convinces me that uconn shouldn't be a better rebounding team.

 

[Replicant]

your yin and yang in no way convinces me that uconn shouldn't be a better rebounding team.

 

[UConnCat]

We're the #1 team in the nation in almost half of all the team metrics counted. It's absurd to suggest that any team could possibly perform better. And when did #15 in rebounding out of 300+ schools make anyone chopped liver.

That said, there's a damn good reason this year's squad won't be top 5 in the category and it's not because of any deficiency...quite the contrary, it's the Yin-Yang of our style of play.

We're a full court team that pushes the ball. We don't sit in static half court offensive sets as much as any of the teams you mentioned, so we've constantly got guards committed to breaking downstream for outlet passes...leaving less available personnel to scrum for defensive boards. That translates into a nation leading 85 ppg...call it the Yin!

Next, we lead the nation in assists and FG% which means we convert at a higher rate than anyone else and don't get, or need the added offensive boards most teams live and die by...that's why Stanford needs Chiney to be the best rebounder in the nation. And there's the Yang!

Next, we're a leading 3 pt shooting team which translates into longer rebounds on misses and negates the criticism of our BIGS even further.

And given all that, we were out rebounded by a meager 2 boards in 3 of the 4 games you cited as evidence of some possible deficiency. And in the Stanford game there was only a 5 board differential, which again belies the notion of a deficiency because we cleared the bench with approx. 5 minutes left in garbage time. I checked, they had 3 more boards than us during that time frame.

As I mentioned in another thread, UConn has never been a great rebounding program. UConn beat Tenn for the national championship in 2003 and Tenn grabbed 18 more rebounds. In fact, Tenn out-rebounded UConn in each and every one of UConn's Final Four wins 2000, 2002, 2003 and 2004.

I'm sure the coaches would like the team improve its rebounding just like it wants the team to improve in everything it does.

 

[Replicant]

As I mentioned in another thread, UConn has never been a great rebounding program. UConn beat Tenn for the national championship in 2003 and Tenn grabbed 18 more rebounds. In fact, Tenn out-rebounded UConn in each and every one of UConn's Final Four wins 2000, 2002, 2003 and 2004.

I'm sure the coaches would like the team improve its rebounding just like it wants the team to improve in everything it does.

There are limited resources for every endeavor. The point I tried to make, is that if Geno wanted to reallocate his focus to rebounding first, we'd be the #1 rebounding team in the country, but suffer elsewhere because of priorities. A lot has to get done in 40 minutes and he's decided where our strengths and weaknesses exists.

I fully agree with you that rebounding has never been our strongest suit (statistically) because our agenda is more dynamic than that and we're a running team. Add to that, the uber 3 point capability and focus of this particular squad for all the reasons I stated related to boards.

 

[doggydaddy]

Heh. Codger: seems like everyone who joins the board and is in any way critical is "labeled" as negative.
It's almost like an initiation rite.
Don't take it personally, as you continue to post, it dissipates.

First of all, posters aren't labeled as negative, they ARE negative. And not all posters that join the board are negative.

It's not close to an initiation rite. And if posters continue to post negative posts, they will be responded to in the same manner. In fact, they will probably get more abuse as they continue to post constant critical and finger pointing posts from the posters that get tired of reading that stuff.

 

[doggydaddy]

You are proving Codger's point against top 4 teams UConn has played they have been out rebounded and against G'town the should have had a double if not a triple digit edge as G'town doesn't have the talent in the post that we do.

No, here is the point.

Charleston 45 - 31 WIN
Texas A&M 43 – 29 WIN
Wake Forest 44 – 32 WIN
Marist 44 – 24 WIN
Purdue 36 - 27 WIN
Colgate 44 – 28 WIN
Maryland 39 – 41 WIN
Penn St 41 - 43 WIN
Oakland 57 – 30 WIN
Hartford 35 – 23 WIN
Stanford 42 – 49 WIN
Oregon 50 – 38 WIN
Notre Dame 46 – 48 LOSS
Georgetown 46 - 46 WIN

The 3 of the 4 games that UConn was outrebounded they won. The one game they were outrebounded by 7, they killed the other team.

The next time overall rebounding causes UConn to lose, then you might have a point. Until then it's like complaining about Cindy Crawford mole.