Question on kids who left vs. those coming in replacing them... | The Boneyard

Question on kids who left vs. those coming in replacing them...

EricSD

EricSD

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I'm not talking about the kids who graduated and did not transfer for 1 more year or something, but rather the kids (Akok, Gaffney, Diggins, Floyd) who transferred out vs. the kids coming in (Alleyne/Newton).

There certainly was some hand-wringing over the consecutive body blows of transfers out. But now we have to really solid guys coming in.

I know some are hoping/expecting for 1 more and maybe a reclassification, but based on talent, team needs, etc. are we better or worse off? And I'm not looking to bash the kids who left - of course Floyd never got to suit up, Gaffney had limited PT, and it was unclear if Akok would ever get back to 100% (ie. where he was before the injury). Obviously to really consider if we are better off or not, a lot of speculation is needed, but objectively, what do the fans in general think?
 
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I've never seen the new guys play, so your guess is as good as mine. It appears, based on their credentials, that we are much better off now for this season.
 
EricLA said:
I'm not talking about the kids who graduated and did not transfer for 1 more year or something, but rather the kids (Akok, Gaffney, Floyd) who transferred out vs. the kids coming in (Alleyne/Newton).

There certainly was some hand-wringing over the consecutive body blows of transfers out. But now we have to really solid guys coming in.

I know some are hoping/expecting for 1 more and maybe a reclassification, but based on talent, team needs, etc. are we better or worse off? And I'm not looking to bash the kids who left - of course Floyd never got to suit up, Gaffney had limited PT, and it was unclear if Akok would ever get back to 100% (ie. where he was before the injury). Obviously to really consider if we are better off or not, a lot of speculation is needed, but objectively, what do the fans in general think?
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How about Diggins?
 
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EricLA said:
I'm not talking about the kids who graduated and did not transfer for 1 more year or something, but rather the kids (Akok, Gaffney, Diggins, Floyd) who transferred out vs. the kids coming in (Alleyne/Newton).

There certainly was some hand-wringing over the consecutive body blows of transfers out. But now we have to really solid guys coming in.

I know some are hoping/expecting for 1 more and maybe a reclassification, but based on talent, team needs, etc. are we better or worse off? And I'm not looking to bash the kids who left - of course Floyd never got to suit up, Gaffney had limited PT, and it was unclear if Akok would ever get back to 100% (ie. where he was before the injury). Obviously to really consider if we are better off or not, a lot of speculation is needed, but objectively, what do the fans in general think?
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You’ll find an extensive discussion of this topic here.
 
NIL opportunities. Have the outgoing players play a pay per view game against the incoming players. All the players keep the revenue.
 
Our starting lineup/rotation is better off with the changes. TBD on the depth, but that's kind of a moot point because those guys rightly didn't want to stick around as end of the bench guys
 
EricLA said:
I'm not talking about the kids who graduated and did not transfer for 1 more year or something, but rather the kids (Akok, Gaffney, Diggins, Floyd) who transferred out vs. the kids coming in (Alleyne/Newton).

There certainly was some hand-wringing over the consecutive body blows of transfers out. But now we have to really solid guys coming in.

I know some are hoping/expecting for 1 more and maybe a reclassification, but based on talent, team needs, etc. are we better or worse off? And I'm not looking to bash the kids who left - of course Floyd never got to suit up, Gaffney had limited PT, and it was unclear if Akok would ever get back to 100% (ie. where he was before the injury). Obviously to really consider if we are better off or not, a lot of speculation is needed, but objectively, what do the fans in general think?
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I don’t see how anyone could reasonably opine on how good Diggins and Floyd could have been. Will have to see how they do in the future to assess.

Akok’s injury derailed his career and Dan Hurley seemed to have soured on him last season. But, no question he seemed to be a shadow of his freshman self.

Same could be said for Gaff. This one really surprised me as I thought he would be at least an excellent back up PG. He made contributions on every game but he didn’t play with confidence and his physical attributes were mostly under wraps.

So, the two new guys will not have to perform so much to surpass what we could have reasonably expected from Akok and Gaff. Jury is still out on whether these guys will outperform what we could have expected to receive from Diggins and Floyd.
 
navery12 said:
Our starting lineup/rotation is better off with the changes. TBD on the depth, but that's kind of a moot point because those guys rightly didn't want to stick around as end of the bench guys
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We'll probably be able to fill in the deep bench spots with similar talent too once summer rolls around and guys who are still left in the portal start to feel a little desperate. The portal pressure works both ways
 
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I'd say we have a higher floor, but maybe a lower ceiling. We got two guys that we know are quality, but probably aren't superstars. The guys leaving could have been terrible, superstars, or more likely, in between.
 
Chuck said:
I'd say we have a higher floor, but maybe a lower ceiling. We got two guys that we know are quality, but probably aren't superstars. The guys leaving could have been terrible, superstars, or more likely, in between.
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I actually have the opposite take. I think next year's team has a lower floor without the built-in consistency of Cole and Martin but a higher ceiling with the potential diversity of scoring we could be looking at.
 
As far as replacing minutes (garbage time excluded) 2022-2023 Newton, Alleyne & Hawkins should be able to match 2021-2022 Cole, Martin, Hawkins, Gaffney & Diggins. Replacement of performance is to be seen but that is a different argument.

Where we could have a severe issue is if a) any of those three gets into foul trouble or b) one or more misses any games for any reason. We will need a couple more bodies purely to confidently execute a game plan.

On Castle's potential reclassifying: I imagine that we won't have an answer on that until after it becomes too late to add anyone else from the portal. He isn't a projected post grad debating whether or not to forego the post grad year, it's a kid attempting (a couple months before the school year ends) to find it if it is feasible and/or practical to graduate a year early.
 
Corey Floyd in particular is going to hurt. He had 4 years of eligibility and all signs pointed towards him being a Big East caliber starter in at least three of them.

But without question, we are better off in the immediate term with these two additions (assuming we get at least two more rotation caliber players to fill out the bench)
 
Chuck said:
I'd say we have a higher floor, but maybe a lower ceiling. We got two guys that we know are quality, but probably aren't superstars. The guys leaving could have been terrible, superstars, or more likely, in between.
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Are you saying that the transfers out had a higher ceiling than the guys that came in? I would disagree with that strongly. Would have loved CFJ to stick around, would have liked Akok to stick around to see if he could get some of his old ways back, but the group we brought in as both a vastly higher floor and ceiling for next year than the transfers out.
 
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The two we've gotten so far are objectively better than Diggins and Gaffney. I don't think there's any question about it.

But we still need to start developing our own point guards. We can't rely exclusively on the portal to fill our point guard position. In the ideal scenario, Diggins would've lived up to expectations coming in and gotten ample playing time last season - and would've been ready to take the keys this coming season, with Jalen as his back-up. That's not what happened and we were forced to go to the portal.

I'm hopeful we'll have better luck going forward with Castle and future guard recruits.
 
The core that is leaving are all very good players individually but didn't fit great together as a team. They lacked scoring and team speed. It's almost easier to start building a team from scratch. I'm hoping to see lots of running, and then more running.
 
BigErnMcCracken said:
I actually have the opposite take. I think next year's team has a lower floor without the built-in consistency of Cole and Martin but a higher ceiling with the potential diversity of scoring we could be looking at.
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Per the OP, I was comparing Newton and Alleyne to Akok, Gaffney, Diggins, Floyd. The former are pretty known commodities at this point. We still had no idea what could get from Diggins and Floyd and even Akok and they could have been bad... or great (but would probably be somewhere in between).

I'd agree that we can't feel confident that we have made up for the loss of Cole and Martin
 
If we're just talking about the transfers in/out, Newton and Alleyne have both a higher floor AND a higher ceiling for this upcoming year than Diggins/Floyd/Gaffney. We're replacing Akok's minutes in-house it seems with Johnson/Karaban, so I'm not going to consider that in regards to the transfers in.

I guess you could argue that the floor is lower due to injuries for the moment, but that should hopefully be remedied by a couple more depth additions.
 
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While it's great to have a top recruiting ranking based on your freshman class, I think Hurley has realized that when you're trying to rebuild and rebrand and program and a culture you can't do it with fresh faces all at once, and expect to win. The approach he probably should have adopted the last two classes is maybe one less FROSH and one more experienced portal player.

The roster is most definitely better. Both of these kids are proven leaders with multiyear track records of success albeit at mid-major schools (yes, I consider WSU a mid-major still). If I'm trying to win AND develop kids like Hawkins, Jackson, Johnson, Clingan, Karabian, Castle (next year) etc this is a step I would need to take and makes a whole lot more sense than the alternative. Because think about it....with the amount of experience UCONN lost without transfers this year, if Hurley had to go into next season with essentially 7 inexperienced players (Clingan, Karaban, Diggins, Floyd, Akok, Springs, Johnson) there's probably gonna be a good amount of losing involved, certainly the record would regress a bit. And then those kids might leave anyway looking for better opportunities at a 'winning program'. Kind of a Catch-22. Better you tell them up front you're bringing in experienced hires and the let the chips fall.

There are a select few schools where you can get away with the 4/5 FROSH per year, wash/rinse/repeat and expect to win 30+ games, win your conference and go pretty far in the NCAAs. And right now I think you can tell which programs I've referring to (Duke, Kentucky ahem).

UCONN is not that, really never was even in JC's primacy. We've always been a coaching oriented school as opposed to pure ability roll-them-out-there-and-out-talent-the-other-team.
 
WhereistheDove? said:
Are you saying that the transfers out had a higher ceiling than the guys that came in? I would disagree with that strongly. Would have loved CFJ to stick around, would have liked Akok to stick around to see if he could get some of his old ways back, but the group we brought in as both a vastly higher floor and ceiling for next year than the transfers out.
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No Big Ern is saying last years team with Cole, Martin, et al had a higher floor
 
aburks41 said:
We'll probably be able to fill in the deep bench spots with similar talent too once summer rolls around and guys who are still left in the portal start to feel a little desperate. The portal pressure works both ways
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Just like NBA free agency. Player thinks he's gonna get a $10-15M pretty year contract and when the money dries up he's left signing for the mid-level exception or veteran's min contract.
 
My take is compared to last year, Newton should cover the loss of Cole and Alleyne would make up for the 3 point threat from Polley (and I expect him to be better than last years Polley). Akok, Diggins and Floyd were nonfactors as they didn’t play, or at least didn’t play any sort of decent minutes. So we’re looking at a loss from Gaffney, Martin, and Whaley essentially. Gaffney just wasn’t good last year, any backup point guard can easily replace his production (and hopefully do better), whether it be Castle or a transfer. Martin and Whaley will be hard to replace, but I think the big potential of AJ, Hawkins, and Johnson, not to mention Clingan and Karaban, will outgain the loss of those two. Then of course Sanogo can step up to be the guy and one of the best in the league.

I would say we’re much better off where we’re at now than what we had last year. Let’s bring in a backup guard or two and sit pretty.
 
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