Question About the 3-Second Rule

[JoePgh]

So it looks like we have a few more days to kill before the next game. So, inspired by the thread on the step-back / traveling rule, let me ask a question about another rule: the 3-second rule. I am motivated to do this because when I look in the official rulebook cited in SVCBeercats's post in that thread, it doesn't say what I expected it to say.

My understanding of the 3-second rule had always been that an offensive player cannot be in the lane for more than 3 consecutive seconds without his/her team taking a shot. But that is not what the official rule says. Instead, it says that the only time a player can stay for more than 3 seconds is if that player is in motion to attempt his/her own shot.

This immediately raises some questions (two specifically) about how this rule would apply in common situations.

1. Suppose Liv has been in the lane for 2 seconds trying to position herself for a post entry pass, and Paige decides to launch a shot from the 3-point line or beyond. Is Liv obligated (in order to avoid a 3-second turnover) to vacate the lane while the shot is in the air, thereby depriving herself of any realistic chance for an offensive rebound? Shouldn't the 3-second count stop as soon as her teammate's shot is launched?
2. Suppose a shot is missed and there is a major scrum under the basket for the rebound. Two offensive rebounders and one or two defensive rebounders are contending for the rebound. An offensive player grabs the rebound and attempts a putback shot, which misses. The other offensive player grabs that rebound and tries another putback, also unsuccessful. These two putback shots consume more than 3 seconds. Has a 3-second violation occurred? If so, I've never seen it called in that situation. As long as putback shots are being attempted, anyone can be in the lane for as long as the ball is on the rim. If that were not the case, the offensive team would be severely disadvantaged in its ability to get rebounds, since anyone who didn't actually get the rebound and put a shot back up would violate the rule. Moreover, if an offensive player grabbed one of these rebounds and kicked it out to a teammate, that would be a violation of the 3-second rule.

Are these just more examples of where the game as called in practice differs from the rulebook? Or is there some other provision of the rules that is not covered by what I see on Page 85 of the rulebook?

 

[HuskyPhan]

OK, based on many long car drives to NE Connecticut from my Mystic home with my referee dad in the 70's, and many, many rules discussions-here's my take Your first comment "without his/her team taking a shot" is correct. As soon as that shot is taken, the accrued time in the paint goes to zero. The 3 seconds only pertains to hanging in the paint while your team is passing the ball around. I believe you could have a 5 second scrum in the paint and no one is getting called for 3 seconds because the ball is already in the paint.

 

[Zinethar]

I laughed when I saw this question then I realized you were referring to basketball not to food landing on the floor ?

 

[Skeets]

I laughed when I saw this question then I realized you were referring to basketball not to food landing on the floor ?

OK, if you make me laugh, you get a "like".

 

[Viet Vet]

OK, based on many long car drives to NE Connecticut from my Mystic home with my referee dad in the 70's, and many, many rules discussions-here's my take Your first comment "without his/her team taking a shot" is correct. As soon as that shot is taken, the accrued time in the paint goes to zero. The 3 seconds only pertains to hanging in the paint while your team is passing the ball around. I believe you could have a 5 second scrum in the paint and no one is getting called for 3 seconds because the ball is already in the paint.

This former referee agrees with your dad.

A frequently misunderstood point is that when an offensive player "with the ball" is in motion to shoot, the three second rule is momentarily suspended to permit that player to complete her shot. If, however, she does not shoot, and has exceeded three seconds in the bucket (doesn't matter if she dribbles, passes or remains stationary) it is a violation. Fans who love to count, "one, two, three" as she is in the act of shooting are contributing to this misunderstanding.

BTW, should an offensive player be straddling the bucket, and lift the foot that is inside the bucket off the floor, that does NOT stop the three second count. The player must "vacate" (both feet) the bucket to terminate the three second count.

 

[chrissaran]

I laughed when I saw this question then I realized you were referring to basketball not to food landing on the floor ?

That was in the movie "Crown for Christmas" with Danica McKellar.

 

[stamfordhusky]

first, everyone needs to remember that the rule says this:

“It is a violation for a player to have any part of their body remain in the three-second lane for more than three consecutive seconds while the ball is in control of that player’s team in their frontcourt.”

Since the ball has to be in control of a given players team, that eliminates any scenario where the ball is loose or in the air.

One thing I have noticed over the years, that I have confirmed in talks with a couple of good college refs, is that most of the refs in the men’s game apply common sense. They do not want to call a three second violation if a player is gaining no advantage from it. For example if a player has his heel on the line while he is posting up and remains there for more than three seconds, they will ignore it since he is gaining no advantage. Likewise if a player falls down and has his leg in the lane, they will not use that as an excuse to call three seconds.

In contrast, many women’s refs use no common sense and look for any excuse to call three seconds. Over the last few years in the games I have watched - and I have looked closely for this, as it is a pet peeve - three second violations are called more than three times as often in women’s games than men’s games. For example last week in a UConn game one of the players hit the deck and was lying there with part of her leg in the lane. The referee couldn’t wait to call a three second violation for that. Absolutely no advantage gained.

 

[eebmg]

Nothing confuses me more. It seems to me that every time a post player is fighting for position, they spend more than 3 seconds in the lane.

 

[ju6381]

Is there a basketball ref at the college/pro level with a reputation for making this call more then others. A basketball versions of "Balkin" Bob Davidson?

 

[donalddoowop]

A player can be in the lane for two seconds, receive a pass, and a new count starts. However, if she passes the ball, a three second violation should be called. When players are fighting for a rebound, as soon as the ball is shot, a new count starts. So they can be in the lane until a basket is made or the other team secures the rebound.

 

[CL82]

This reminds me of a good friend whose daughter played AAU ball with my daughter. He would yell “hey ref that’s three seconds, you gonna call that?” He must’ve done it at least a dozen times a game. His daughter was a post player and if three seconds were called on her he would say “come on Ref if it’s three seconds on this side of the court it’s got to be three seconds on the other side too. I don’t care how you call it but call it both ways!” The crapper the people around, and often the reps. In fact on the few occasions he got warned. Otherwise, nicest guy ever want to meet.

( As long as I am reminiscing about that let me add that his daughter was the sweetest girl ever want to meet, too. One time, toward the end of the game she, from my perspective out of the blue, just body checked some girl into the bleachers. She got a technical and was ejected. I don’t think it cost the team the game but it made it closer than it should have been. I asked my daughter about it after the game and she said when she asked her teammate about it her answer was “yeah she just needed to go into the stands.”)

 

[SVCBeercats]

This immediately raises some questions (two specifically) about how this rule would apply in common situations.

1. Suppose Liv has been in the lane for 2 seconds trying to position herself for a post entry pass, and Paige decides to launch a shot from the 3-point line or beyond.
2. Suppose a shot is missed and there is a major scrum under the basket for the rebound.

A three second violation can only occur if a team has control of the basketball. In both of your examples the team is no longer in control of the ball. Therefore no three second violation should be called.

 

[Viet Vet]

A player can be in the lane for two seconds, receive a pass, and a new count starts. However, if she passes the ball, a three second violation should be called. When players are fighting for a rebound, as soon as the ball is shot, a new count starts. So they can be in the lane until a basket is made or the other team secures the rebound.

Sorry, but you are mistaken. TEAM control is maintained while the ball is in the air being passed from one teammate to another. Thus a player in the lane for two seconds who then receives a pass from a teammate does NOT get a new three-second count.

 

[donalddoowop]

Sorry, but you are mistaken. TEAM control is maintained while the ball is in the air being passed from one teammate to another. Thus a player in the lane for two seconds who then receives a pass from a teammate does NOT get a new three-second count.

She does if she immediately shoots the ball. However, if she passes the ball, the call should be made.