Question about Big 12, tv contracts and college sports revenue

[Scottobot]

My understanding of some recent articles is that 99% of sports revenue come from college football tv contracts/ revenue sharing etc. Further, starting soon all college players are going to be paid millions per year and the only way to fund a basketball program or any other sport is to make big money in college football. Don’t laugh at me, but I don’t really pay attention to college football, and was surprised that college basketball is so unpopular and generates so little money compared with football. Is this really accurate?

 

[TheHorde]

I hope the Big 12 members aren’t watching the UConn Maryland football game right now.

 

[UConnTrumbull]

Pretty much spot on. Football and basketball are the only revenue-producing sports. Football is 80-85% of the value for most power schools. With revenue sharing coming, you're either in the club or you're not.

 

[upstater]

My understanding of some recent articles is that 99% of sports revenue come from college football tv contracts/ revenue sharing etc. Further, starting soon all college players are going to be paid millions per year and the only way to fund a basketball program or any other sport is to make big money in college football. Don’t laugh at me, but I don’t really pay attention to college football, and was surprised that college basketball is so unpopular and generates so little money compared with football. Is this really accurate?

Um, no.

The reason football is at a premium is that the NCAA uses the basketball revenue from the NCAAT to fund the playoffs and championships of all other sports, and to fund the salaries at the NCAA, which are considerable.

The tourney makes $1.1b a year. The women's tourney will soon sign an enormous contract itself. If you take the NCAA and the funding of championships out of it, the schools would make an enormous amount from basketball.

Beyond that, the BE conference makes $7-8m in annual bball TV revenue per school. This is with a bunch of small Catholic schools. In terms of TV, they don't draw as well as B1G or ACC schools. UConn is probably worth more like $11-12m when it comes to eyeballs on men's bball, and another $4-5m for the women.

When you combine what the NCAAT should be worth to UConn (3x the current payout of $2.5m) to the value of men's and women's bball, the true value of basketball for UConn (outside of ticket sales, sponsorships) is closer to $25m a year rather than the current $10m (TV revenues + NCAAT credits).

 

[CTFAN4LIFE]

Um, no.

The reason football is at a premium is that the NCAA uses the basketball revenue from the NCAAT to fund the playoffs and championships of all other sports, and to fund the salaries at the NCAA, which are considerable.

The tourney makes $1.1b a year. The women's tourney will soon sign an enormous contract itself. If you take the NCAA and the funding of championships out of it, the schools would make an enormous amount from basketball.

Beyond that, the BE conference makes $7-8m in annual bball TV revenue per school. This is with a bunch of small Catholic schools. In terms of TV, they don't draw as well as B1G or ACC schools. UConn is probably worth more like $11-12m when it comes to eyeballs on men's bball, and another $4-5m for the women.

When you combine what the NCAAT should be worth to UConn (3x the current payout of $2.5m) to the value of men's and women's bball, the true value of basketball for UConn (outside of ticket sales, sponsorships) is closer to $25m a year rather than the current $10m (TV revenues + NCAAT credits).

The deal just signed for the women's tournament and all other tournaments (other than men's basketball and football, of course) is an eight year deal worth 920m, or 115m per year. I'd imagine it is split across all schools but not sure. No matter how split, it feels like the women's basketball tournament is undervalued.

 

[cellocgg]

Ok guys I change my mind, let's stick in the BE and drop Football to FCS

 

[hank970]

Um, no.

The reason football is at a premium is that the NCAA uses the basketball revenue from the NCAAT to fund the playoffs and championships of all other sports, and to fund the salaries at the NCAA, which are considerable.

The tourney makes $1.1b a year. The women's tourney will soon sign an enormous contract itself. If you take the NCAA and the funding of championships out of it, the schools would make an enormous amount from basketball.

Beyond that, the BE conference makes $7-8m in annual bball TV revenue per school. This is with a bunch of small Catholic schools. In terms of TV, they don't draw as well as B1G or ACC schools. UConn is probably worth more like $11-12m when it comes to eyeballs on men's bball, and another $4-5m for the women.

When you combine what the NCAAT should be worth to UConn (3x the current payout of $2.5m) to the value of men's and women's bball, the true value of basketball for UConn (outside of ticket sales, sponsorships) is closer to $25m a year rather than the current $10m (TV revenues + NCAAT credits).

The true value of anything, no matter whether it's a home, a Picasso, a used bicycle, or an athletic program, is what someone is willing to pay for it. Right now, UConn basketball is worth whatever it's getting out of its affiliation with the NBE. If a P conference is willing to pay more, then UConn's basketball value will go up even if it can't sustain its championship prowess. If UConn remains in the NBE, then it will be worth only whatever it can wring out of its current situation, and nothing more.

 

[bendm]

Pretty much spot on. Football and basketball are the only revenue-producing sports. Football is 80-85% of the value for most power schools. With revenue sharing coming, you're either in the club or you're not.

UConn men’s basketball made over $10 million in revenue in 2023. Along with NIL that is more than enough to pay players and maintain our dominance in the Big East.

However…the only way the school can continue funding the entire athletic dept (including bball but without using all the bball revenue) is to cut football and possibly whatever women’s teams are needed to offset football pursuant to title ix.

Unfortunately, without getting into a power conference by next year it will be impossible for the school to both fund football and provide the financial resources necessary for bball to stay at its current level.

If there’s another way please tell me

 

[ScottVib]

UConn men’s basketball made over $10 million in revenue in 2023. Along with NIL that is more than enough to pay players and maintain our dominance in the Big East.

However…the only way the school can continue funding the entire athletic dept (including bball but without using all the bball revenue) is to cut football and possibly whatever women’s teams are needed to offset football pursuant to title ix.

Unfortunately, without getting into a power conference by next year it will be impossible for the school to both fund football and provide the financial resources necessary for bball to stay at its current level.

If there’s another way please tell me

Men's basketball also had $13.89 million in expenses in 2023...

Sportico’s Intercollegiate Finance Database

Sportico is maintaining an interactive, real-time database that tracks the official balance sheets of public FBS university athletic departments.

www.sportico.com

 

[bendm]

The deal just signed for the women's tournament and all other tournaments (other than men's basketball and football, of course) is an eight year deal worth 920m, or 115m per year. I'd imagine it is split across all schools but not sure. No matter how split, it feels like the women's basketball tournament is undervalued.

I thought the only cut the schools got was based on tourney credits otherwise it all goes to the ncaa lol. That’s the root of the issue. March madness funds the ncaa because they own the rights whereas the schools get to keep all cfp and bowl game revenue

 

[bendm]

Men's basketball also had $13.89 million in expenses in 2023...

Sportico’s Intercollegiate Finance Database

Sportico is maintaining an interactive, real-time database that tracks the official balance sheets of public FBS university athletic departments.

www.sportico.com

The school can afford to cover most of that. It just can’t afford to cover the loses from football and all the extra women’s sports too.

 

[upstater]

The true value of anything, no matter whether it's a home, a Picasso, a used bicycle, or an athletic program, is what someone is willing to pay for it. Right now, UConn basketball is worth whatever it's getting out of its affiliation with the NBE. If a P conference is willing to pay more, then UConn's basketball value will go up even if it can't sustain its championship prowess. If UConn remains in the NBE, then it will be worth only whatever it can wring out of its current situation, and nothing more.

This is not at all what I was saying.

I'm saying it's a deliberate decision to pay for all NCAA costs and all playoffs and all lawyers with NCAA tournament money.

That's an option they CHOSE to take.

It has nothing to do with values or markets.

UConn obviously is the top basketball school in the country right now and has value far exceeding the rest of the Big East.

If you don't believe that, Im not sure what you're thinking.

 

[upstater]

The deal just signed for the women's tournament and all other tournaments (other than men's basketball and football, of course) is an eight year deal worth 920m, or 115m per year. I'd imagine it is split across all schools but not sure. No matter how split, it feels like the women's basketball tournament is undervalued.

Yes, thank you for that info. It slipped my mind.

It was a colossal error by the NCAA as this thing was signed BEFORE last year's tourney when interest went through the roof.

They needed to delay for a year to see if the 2023 great ratings would continue into 2024. Instead, they signed a below market deal

 

[hank970]

This is not at all what I was saying.

I'm saying it's a deliberate decision to pay for all NCAA costs and all playoffs and all lawyers with NCAA tournament money.

That's an option they CHOSE to take.

It has nothing to do with values or markets.

UConn obviously is the top basketball school in the country right now and has value far exceeding the rest of the Big East.

If you don't believe that, Im not sure what you're thinking.

Yes, UConn basketball is at the top of the heap right now, and yes, it's probably more valuable than any other Big East program. You stated, however, that the true value of UConn basketball is $25 million per year, and I'm thinking that, until someone's actually willing to pay that amount for UConn basketball, it's worth something less -- at least monetarily.

Beyond that, I couldn't care less how the NCAA allocates its resources.

 

[upstater]

Yes, UConn basketball is at the top of the heap right now, and yes, it's probably more valuable than any other Big East program. You stated, however, that the true value of UConn basketball is $25 million per year, and I'm thinking that, until someone's actually willing to pay that amount for UConn basketball, it's worth something less -- at least monetarily.

Beyond that, I couldn't care less how the NCAA allocates its resources.

Again, you seem to have missed what I wrote entirely. I already stated it twice.

I wrote that UConn's men media rights are worth around $11-$12m a year.

$25m was adding up other things like the true value of NCAA credits as well as the women's package.

I don't think I'll be repeating myself about this a third time so feel free to misunderstand what I wrote again.

 

[CTFAN4LIFE]

Yes, UConn basketball is at the top of the heap right now, and yes, it's probably more valuable than any other Big East program. You stated, however, that the true value of UConn basketball is $25 million per year, and I'm thinking that, until someone's actually willing to pay that amount for UConn basketball, it's worth something less -- at least monetarily.

Beyond that, I couldn't care less how the NCAA allocates its resources.

Because we don't get compensated requisite to our brand, market, and performance I cannot agree with that statement and if things continue the way they are we could see the deterioration of the entire AD.

 

[superjohn]

UConn men’s basketball made over $10 million in revenue in 2023. Along with NIL that is more than enough to pay players and maintain our dominance in the Big East.

However…the only way the school can continue funding the entire athletic dept (including bball but without using all the bball revenue) is to cut football and possibly whatever women’s teams are needed to offset football pursuant to title ix.

Unfortunately, without getting into a power conference by next year it will be impossible for the school to both fund football and provide the financial resources necessary for bball to stay at its current level.

If there’s another way please tell me

Yep, this is the problem. We need football to move to the Big 12 but it's an albatross and it's what's keeping us out of the Big 12. I don't see how that changes and if it doesn't change and we can't fund basketball like we need to we have to scrap football completely so we can also scrap the women's scholarships that need to be covered with football.

 

[bendm]

Yep, this is the problem. We need football to move to the Big 12 but it's an albatross and it's what's keeping us out of the Big 12. I don't see how that changes and if it doesn't change and we can't fund basketball like we need to we have to scrap football completely so we can also scrap the women's scholarships that need to be covered with football.

In 2023 Football was a net negative of $14mill (operating expenses minus revenue). Women’s sports not including bball were a net negative of $18mill. Without football the school could get rid of 6 of its 12 women’s sports (volleyball, swimming, crew, cross country, tennis, lacrosse).

So Not having to cover the loses from football and half its women’s sports would have saved the school ~$23mill in 2023.

Starting next year the men’s bball program will need to “share” about half its annual revenue (~$5mill**) with players. That wouldn’t be an issue if the athletic department starts saving over $20mill/year elsewhere

**of the $20mill in annual revenue that power schools can start sharing with players, I don’t foresee them sharing more than 1/3 with their men’s bball players ($6-7mill). the majority will go to football.

 

[CJasmer]

In 2023 Football was a net negative of $14mill (operating expenses minus revenue). Women’s sports not including bball were a net negative of $18mill. Without football the school could get rid of 6 of its 12 women’s sports (volleyball, swimming, crew, cross country, tennis, lacrosse).

So Not having to cover the loses from football and half its women’s sports would have saved the school ~$23mill in 2023.

Starting next year the men’s bball program will need to “share” about half its annual revenue (~$5mill**) with players. That wouldn’t be an issue if the athletic department starts saving over $20mill/year elsewhere

**of the $20mill in annual revenue that power schools can start sharing with players, I don’t foresee them sharing more than 1/3 with their men’s bball players ($6-7mill). the majority will go to football.

Those women sports could still be club. I would argue most non revenue sports should be club. Probably left with just basketball and hockey that generate any real revenue. All other sports will need to get alumni to support them directly.

 

[upstater]

Yep, this is the problem. We need football to move to the Big 12 but it's an albatross and it's what's keeping us out of the Big 12. I don't see how that changes and if it doesn't change and we can't fund basketball like we need to we have to scrap football completely so we can also scrap the women's scholarships that need to be covered with football.

With $1.1 billion + $200m on the women's side, that's too much money for the P4 to ignore.

They will take it eventually.

I give it 10 years to account for the payout to former players if that deal gets approved.

When the NCAA stops paying former players, that's when the P4 go their own way.

There's simply too much money in basketball which the top schools aren't getting.

As an aside, I saw an ESPN article recently which related that my often stated best option for organizing college sports (go pro and just use the school's brand) was one of the options the bigwigs are discussing, and I was fairly surprised that my far-fetched idea is actually possible. I believe it is viable, but thought they'd never go for it. It's far-fetched but it makes the most sense.

 

[AZHuskiePop]

My understanding of some recent articles is that 99% of sports revenue come from college football tv contracts/ revenue sharing etc. Further, starting soon all college players are going to be paid millions per year and the only way to fund a basketball program or any other sport is to make big money in college football. Don’t laugh at me, but I don’t really pay attention to college football, and was surprised that college basketball is so unpopular and generates so little money compared with football. Is this really accurate?

That‘’s obviously not true
Since they media partners made a significant chunk of change from BB content. However 25% additional revenue comes from Football Playoff money which we won’t get a dime of
Since any breakout is hypothetical getting exact numbers is . difficult
I‘ve heard 20% and as high as 30% of the media contract . Neither number is sufficient
I believe the Big East Contract opened some eyes as to the potential of BB money as a conference with lower ratings is getting 22% of the Big 12 at average .
which doesn’t reflect the true value of UConn. We also bring an additional team
I estimate UConn worth in the Big East
is about $14,000,000
adding 50% for rating difference I think the provider will bump up the contract by that amount .
UConn can’t go to the B12 for 20% or 30%
my but forget the the current deal with regard to UConn
UConn and the Big 12 should negotiate in the context of what is actual worth . With the Big East as a starting point
“ Well the smart answer is what ever you can get ESPN to agree to”

 

[CL82]

With $1.1 billion + $200m on the women's side, that's too much money for the P4 to ignore.

They will take it eventually.

I give it 10 years to account for the payout to former players if that deal gets approved.

When the NCAA stops paying former players, that's when the P4 go their own way.

There's simply too much money in basketball which the top schools aren't getting.

As an aside, I saw an ESPN article recently which related that my often stated best option for organizing college sports (go pro and just use the school's brand) was one of the options the bigwigs are discussing, and I was fairly surprised that my far-fetched idea is actually possible. I believe it is viable, but thought they'd never go for it. It's far-fetched but it makes the most sense.

Agree, 100% that basketball money is low hanging fruit that eventually will need to be harvested by the "power" schools.

Regarding your proposed "go pro" idea, it's definitely possible, though that might be a bridge too far for me. I guess we'll see.

 

[upstater]

Agree, 100% that basketball money is low hanging fruit that eventually will need to be harvested by the "power" schools.

Regarding your proposed "go pro" idea, it's definitely possible, though that might be a bridge too far for me. I guess we'll see.

Here's how many UConn fans would get sucked into a pro concept: the vast majority of the country will go along with it not even batting an eyelash. Breads & Circuses. With 80% of the country still being heavily invested in "college" sports, the enthusiasm will carry over to the northeast simply because everyone else is doing it.

I would stop watching, but I think I'd be in a teen teeny minority.

The real problem with going pro is "Who owns and funds and builds all the stadiums and venues?"

MLS is having difficulty building stadiums even with billionaire owners.

 

[Patman]

Ok guys I change my mind, let's stick in the BE and drop Football to FCS

i mean sure, then UConn basketball won't be relevant in 10 years.

edit: Why don't the basketball people realize the "power 3" will just leave everybody else behind in a few years? You think they'll keep a life raft for UConn? Really?

 

[CL82]

Here's how many UConn fans would get sucked into a pro concept: the vast majority of the country will go along with it not even batting an eyelash. Breads & Circuses. With 80% of the country still being heavily invested in "college" sports, the enthusiasm will carry over to the northeast simply because everyone else is doing it.

I would stop watching, but I think I'd be in a teen teeny minority.

The real problem with going pro is "Who owns and funds and builds all the stadiums and venues?"

MLS is having difficulty building stadiums even with billionaire owners.

For what it's worth, in the unlikely event that we got a P4 invite conditioned upon building and on campus stadium, one of the big question marks is what happens to the Rent. For what it's worth, in the unlikely event that we got a P4 invite conditioned upon building and on campus stadium, one of the big question marks is what happens to the rent. It would make a terrific MLS stadium. Potentially they could have a nice rivalry with the New York Red Bulls.

Totally get that we're millions of miles away from that ever happened, it's just a thought I've had from time to time.