Premier Basketball taking over espnW?

[DaBball]

 

[UConnCat]

So have we seen the last of fifty-three 5-star players? Let's hope star rankings actually have meaning.

 

[WFFL]

So whats the meaning of this sorry im needing clarity ?

 

[TheFarmFan]

Here's their Top 100. Me thinks there's some insane East Coast bias there; the three West Coast top ten recruits under Olson, Demetre, Iriafen, and Von Oelhoffen, drop from 4, 9, and 10 to 11, 19, and 25, and Rayah Marshall dropped from 14 to 27. I know some folks thought Olson had a west coast bias, but I'm not sure I have any more confidence in these new guys given that nearly every top west coast prospect dropped at least 10 spots.

ETA: And Dawn suddenly goes from having the 3rd, 6th, and 13th recruits to the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th. Ok then.

 

[militarydog]

Here's their Top 100. Me thinks there's some insane East Coast bias there; the three West Coast top ten recruits under Olson, Demetre, Iriafen, and Von Oelhoffen, drop from 4, 9, and 10 to 11, 19, and 25, and Rayah Marshall dropped from 14 to 27. I know some folks thought Olson had a west coast bias, but I'm not sure I have any more confidence in these new guys given that nearly every top west coast prospect dropped at least 10 spots.

ETA: And Dawn suddenly goes from having the 3rd, 6th, and 13th recruits to the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th. Ok then.

Those are some pretty remarkable shifts in rankings.

 

[Alydar]

Those are some pretty remarkable shifts in rankings.

Why do you say the rankings shifted? Look here. 2021 HoopGurlz Recruiting Rankings - espnW 100 - ESPN

See? The other rankings are still there and are still allowed to be used to promote whichever program you wish.

 

[Dillon77]

I compared the "new" Hoopgurlz ratings for 2021 vs. Dan Olson's ratings for the Top 20 prospects .
Here are a few observations and thoughts:

The song remains the same:
- Azzi Fudd is still #1. Excellence stands out.
- Saniya Rivers was at #3 and she's still at #3.
- Sonia Citron is still #16. Only other prospect that stayed the same so all the raters pretty much saw the same thing.

Big Gainers
+32 in this new poll from the old one. Both Caroline Ducharme (UConn), from #37 to #5.
and
Morasha Wiggins (North Carolina), from #50 to #18.
and Double-digit climbers.
+15 in this new poll. Destiny Adams (North Carolina...no surprise to several Adams fans in NJ ), from #5 to #20.
+13. Teonni Key (North Carolina), #22 to #9.
+12. Aubryanna Hall (South Carolina), #26 to #14.
+11. Raven Johnson (South Carolina), #13 to #2.
+11. Jersey Wolfenbarger (Arkansas), from #18 to #7.
+11. Maryam Dauda (Baylor), from #24 to #13.
+10. Rori Harman (Texas), from #20 to #10.

Top 20 Players That Dropped
-10. Amari DeBerry (UConn), from #5 to #15 and Kiki Iriafen (Stanford) from #9 to #19.
-7. Brooks Demetre (Stanford), from #4 to #11.
- 6. Olivia Miles (ND) from #2 to #8 (still in Top Ten).

Collegiate Teams That Saw Prospects Rise

Can you say "Carolinas," as in both South and North?

- South Carolina has three of the top four (Johnson, Saniya Rivers and Sonia Feagin) and another in the Top 15 (A. Hall, who moved up 12 spots).

- North Carolina, who now have 4 players in the Top 20, having benefited from three double-digit jumps. Courtney Banghart, the 2nd year coach, get's her program some higher ratings, which could benefit her in future recruiting.

Team That Saw Prospects' Ratings Fall
- Stanford
Brooks Demetre went from #4 to #11
Amari DeBerry fell from #5 to #15.


Team That Saw Rises and Falls
- UConn
Caroline Ducharme flew like a rocket up to #5
but
Amari DeBerry dropped 10 spots, from #5 to #15
Saylor Poffenbarger went down 13 spots, from #17 to #30


Club Team Whose Players Were Affected (down)
- Philly Belles, with DeBerry (-10) and Olivia Miles (-6)
Sonia Citron just joined them but stayed static at 16.
If memory holds, the new rating organization is located in Texas. Could this affect the viewpoint?

 

[DaBball]

I compared the "new" Hoopgurlz ratings for 2021 vs. Dan Olson's ratings for the Top 20 prospects .
Here are a few observations and thoughts:

The song remains the same:
- Azzi Fudd is still #1. Excellence stands out.
- Saniya Rivers was at #3 and she's still at #3.
- Sonia Citron is still #16. Only other prospect that stayed the same so all the raters pretty much saw the same thing.

Big Gainers
+32 in this new poll from the old one. Both Caroline Ducharme (UConn), from #37 to #5.
and
Morasha Wiggins (North Carolina), from #50 to #18.
and Double-digit climbers.
+15 in this new poll. Destiny Adams (North Carolina...no surprise to several Adams fans in NJ ), from #5 to #20.
+13. Teonni Key (North Carolina), #22 to #9.
+12. Aubryanna Hall (South Carolina), #26 to #14.
+11. Raven Johnson (South Carolina), #13 to #2.
+11. Jersey Wolfenbarger (Arkansas), from #18 to #7.
+11. Maryam Dauda (Baylor), from #24 to #13.
+10. Rori Harman (Texas), from #20 to #10.

Top 20 Players That Dropped
-10. Amari DeBerry (UConn), from #5 to #15 and Kiki Iriafen (Stanford) from #9 to #19.
-7. Brooks Demetre (Stanford), from #4 to #11.
- 6. Olivia Miles (ND) from #2 to #8 (still in Top Ten).

Collegiate Teams That Benefited from these Changes

Can you say "Carolinas," as in both South and North?

- South Carolina has three of the top four (Johnson, Saniya Rivers and Sonia Feagin) and another in the Top 15 (A. Hall, who moved up 12 spots).

- North Carolina, who now have 4 players in the Top 20, having benefited from three double-digit jumps.

Team That Saw Prospects' Ratings Fall
- Stanford
Brooks Demetre went from #4 to #11
Amari DeBerry fell from #5 to #15.


Team Affected Both Ways

- UConn
Caroline Ducharme flew like a rocket up to #5
but
Amari DeBerry dropped 10 spots, from #5 to #15
Saylor Poffenbarger went down 13 spots, from #17 to #30


Club Team Whose Players Were Affected (down)
- Philly Belles, with DeBerry (-10) and Olivia Miles (-6)
Sonia Citron just joined them but stayed static at 16.
If memory holds, the new rating organization is located in Texas. Could this affect the viewpoint?

Oregon State was affected as well, with von Oelhoffen dropping 15 spots to #25 and Kampschroeder dropping 20 spots to #32.

I believe Oregon’s lone commit, Taylor Bigby from Nevada, remained about the same.

NC State had a few commits drop a good bit, including a top-50 falling out of the top-100.

 

[DeeHusky]

Was Hollingshead in the top 10? If so, they dropped her pretty low. Raven Johnson is the biggest gainer. Is she better than Miles? Definitely don’t think she’s a better prospect than Rivers. Rivers would be 1 if not for Fudd.

 

[shiverz45]

I did not know how far or fast Raven would rise but she has been killing it at all of these AAU tournaments. The new evaluators probably already had a higher opinion of her.

 

[shiverz45]

Was Hollingshead in the top 10? If so, they dropped her pretty low. Raven Johnson is the biggest gainer. Is she better than Miles? Definitely don’t think she’s a better prospect than Rivers. Rivers would be 1 if not for Fudd.

Hollingshead was not in the top 10. I think she is and was ranked somewhere in the 30s.

 

[JDuro]

Hollingshead was not in the top 10. I think she is and was ranked somewhere in the 30s.

Yes, she was ranked #31 by Olson.

Nice to see Bree Hall jump up. I felt she was getting slept on ranked at #26.

 

[Nash83]

Tenn didn't fare any better...
Sara Puckett, 6-2 forward, Alabama now 43 (was 62)
Karoline Striplin, 6-3 forward, Alabama now 45 (was 48)
Kaiya Wynn, 6-0 guard, Tennessee now 62 (was 23)
Brooklynn Miles, 5-6 point guard, Kentucky now not ranked (was 46)

 

[visitingcock]

So have we seen the last of fifty-three 5-star players? Let's hope star rankings actually have meaning.

17 - 5 stars

17 - 4.6 stars

66 - 4 stars

Seems more rational whether or not it has "meaning."

 

[CocoHusky]

I compared the "new" Hoopgurlz ratings for 2021 vs. Dan Olson's ratings for the Top 20 prospects .
Here are a few observations and thoughts:

The song remains the same:
- Azzi Fudd is still #1. Excellence stands out.
- Saniya Rivers was at #3 and she's still at #3.
- Sonia Citron is still #16. Only other prospect that stayed the same so all the raters pretty much saw the same thing.

Big Gainers
+32 in this new poll from the old one. Both Caroline Ducharme (UConn), from #37 to #5.
and
Morasha Wiggins (North Carolina), from #50 to #18.
and Double-digit climbers.
+15 in this new poll. Destiny Adams (North Carolina...no surprise to several Adams fans in NJ ), from #5 to #20.
+13. Teonni Key (North Carolina), #22 to #9.
+12. Aubryanna Hall (South Carolina), #26 to #14.
+11. Raven Johnson (South Carolina), #13 to #2.
+11. Jersey Wolfenbarger (Arkansas), from #18 to #7.
+11. Maryam Dauda (Baylor), from #24 to #13.
+10. Rori Harman (Texas), from #20 to #10.

Top 20 Players That Dropped
-10. Amari DeBerry (UConn), from #5 to #15 and Kiki Iriafen (Stanford) from #9 to #19.
-7. Brooks Demetre (Stanford), from #4 to #11.
- 6. Olivia Miles (ND) from #2 to #8 (still in Top Ten).

Collegiate Teams That Benefited from these Changes

Can you say "Carolinas," as in both South and North?

- South Carolina has three of the top four (Johnson, Saniya Rivers and Sonia Feagin) and another in the Top 15 (A. Hall, who moved up 12 spots).

- North Carolina, who now have 4 players in the Top 20, having benefited from three double-digit jumps.

Team That Saw Prospects' Ratings Fall
- Stanford
Brooks Demetre went from #4 to #11
Amari DeBerry fell from #5 to #15.


Team Affected Both Ways

- UConn
Caroline Ducharme flew like a rocket up to #5
but
Amari DeBerry dropped 10 spots, from #5 to #15
Saylor Poffenbarger went down 13 spots, from #17 to #30


Club Team Whose Players Were Affected (down)
- Philly Belles, with DeBerry (-10) and Olivia Miles (-6)
Sonia Citron just joined them but stayed static at 16.
If memory holds, the new rating organization is located in Texas. Could this affect the viewpoint?

I have to disagree with you on these two points. "Collegiate Teams That Benefited from these Changes" & Club Team Whose Players Were Affected (down) ". I don't think any team benefited from these ranking changes. These kids are going to show up on campus and some are going to out perform their ranking and some will not. Players are not affected by rankings regardless of which rankings service you use or the program you follow. Don't know why people are getting so worked up about these rankings. Besides UCONN what school has turned a number 1 recruiting class into a championship within 4 years of getting the number 1 class? Maybe 2004 Maryland?

 

[cancontent]

Why do you say the rankings shifted? Look here. 2021 HoopGurlz Recruiting Rankings - espnW 100 - ESPN

See? The other rankings are still there and are still allowed to be used to promote whichever program you wish.

There are some huge shifts even on this one. It looks like it's been updated too.

Look at Lattimore and Day-Wilson. Wasn't Lattimore a top 15 (11 I think?). Now she's listed at 84. Understandable that Canadians weren't able to compete in AAU this summer. Didn't think the drop off is that much.

Premier's list have her at 34 I think. That's a big disparity between the two.

 

[Gamecockfan77]

Haven't really talked about it much before, but this North Carolina class makes me pretty confident they are going to be near the top of the ACC going forward.

I think they are a former power on the big time rise.

 

[cancontent]

I compared the "new" Hoopgurlz ratings for 2021 vs. Dan Olson's ratings for the Top 20 prospects .
Here are a few observations and thoughts:

The song remains the same:
- Azzi Fudd is still #1. Excellence stands out.
- Saniya Rivers was at #3 and she's still at #3.
- Sonia Citron is still #16. Only other prospect that stayed the same so all the raters pretty much saw the same thing.

Big Gainers
+32 in this new poll from the old one. Both Caroline Ducharme (UConn), from #37 to #5.
and
Morasha Wiggins (North Carolina), from #50 to #18.
and Double-digit climbers.
+15 in this new poll. Destiny Adams (North Carolina...no surprise to several Adams fans in NJ ), from #5 to #20.
+13. Teonni Key (North Carolina), #22 to #9.
+12. Aubryanna Hall (South Carolina), #26 to #14.
+11. Raven Johnson (South Carolina), #13 to #2.
+11. Jersey Wolfenbarger (Arkansas), from #18 to #7.
+11. Maryam Dauda (Baylor), from #24 to #13.
+10. Rori Harman (Texas), from #20 to #10.

Top 20 Players That Dropped
-10. Amari DeBerry (UConn), from #5 to #15 and Kiki Iriafen (Stanford) from #9 to #19.
-7. Brooks Demetre (Stanford), from #4 to #11.
- 6. Olivia Miles (ND) from #2 to #8 (still in Top Ten).

Collegiate Teams That Benefited from these Changes

Can you say "Carolinas," as in both South and North?

- South Carolina has three of the top four (Johnson, Saniya Rivers and Sonia Feagin) and another in the Top 15 (A. Hall, who moved up 12 spots).

- North Carolina, who now have 4 players in the Top 20, having benefited from three double-digit jumps.

Team That Saw Prospects' Ratings Fall
- Stanford
Brooks Demetre went from #4 to #11
Amari DeBerry fell from #5 to #15.


Team Affected Both Ways

- UConn
Caroline Ducharme flew like a rocket up to #5
but
Amari DeBerry dropped 10 spots, from #5 to #15
Saylor Poffenbarger went down 13 spots, from #17 to #30


Club Team Whose Players Were Affected (down)
- Philly Belles, with DeBerry (-10) and Olivia Miles (-6)
Sonia Citron just joined them but stayed static at 16.
If memory holds, the new rating organization is located in Texas. Could this affect the viewpoint?

Question - wasn't Lattimore (Syracuse commit) part of the top 20 before? The HoopGurlz list has her in the 80s now. Premier's list has her in the top 40.

This doesn't do anything to help "clarify" things for anyone from what I'm reading.

 

[Gamecockfan77]

As for South Carolina, I think the three point shooting improvements made by Raven Johnson and Bree Hall are pretty noteworthy.

I don't see either climbing the ratings as particularly unexpected, though Johnson to #2 is maybe a little higher than expected. Seems like some other service had her very high.

the ability of this group to shoot from the perimeter will perhaps be the difference in winning championships. Honestly this group will be expected to contend for at title as freshmen.

One thing seems pretty sure, they're going to be hell on defense.

 

[Gamecockfan77]

Did Premier have available ratings before now? Were they public?

I'd be curious to see if these are risers for them or if they have always had them higher or lower than Olsen.

If they didn't have their own ratings, I'm curious how much they used Olsen's ratings as a template.

Also interested in any background or gossip or perceived biases for Premier vs the perceived biases for Olsen.

 

[visitingcock]

I have to disagree with you on these two points. "Collegiate Teams That Benefited from these Changes" & Club Team Whose Players Were Affected (down) ". I don't think any team benefited from these ranking changes. These kids are going to show up on campus and some are going to out perform their ranking and some will not. Players are not affected by rankings regardless of which rankings service you use or the program you follow. Don't know why people are getting so worked up about these rankings. Besides UCONN what school has turned a number 1 recruiting class into a championship within 4 years of getting the number 1 class? Maybe 2004 Maryland?

I agree. Re-ranking changes nothing about the players or the school they committed to. We were extremely happy with our class before this adjustment/change. The only thing that is affected is hype - and that can bring positives and/or negatives to a program.

These are the rankings that ESPN's talking heads are going to go off of when they discuss recruiting classes. Assuming UConn gets Azi, the heads will probably say that SCar and UConn have the two top recruiting classes for 2021 and they will say it a LOT during our game against each other while talking about our 2019 class and your 2020 class. It will all be hype, but prospects for 2022 and 2023 will be listening - for good or ill.

Indeed, in every game where our 2019 recruiting class is mentioned, I expect them to add "and the 2021 class is ranked number " for good or ill.

Of course, UConn needs no hype.

 

[Dillon77]

I have to disagree with you on these two points. "Collegiate Teams That Benefited from these Changes" & Club Team Whose Players Were Affected (down) ". I don't think any team benefited from these ranking changes. These kids are going to show up on campus and some are going to out perform their ranking and some will not. Players are not affected by rankings regardless of which rankings service you use or the program you follow. Don't know why people are getting so worked up about these rankings. Besides UCONN what school has turned a number 1 recruiting class into a championship within 4 years of getting the number 1 class? Maybe 2004 Maryland?

Oh, Points Taken To Some Degree but I'll push back mildly in one regard.

Of course, UCONN, S. Carolina, Stanford, Notre Dame, Oregon State, etc. are all happy with their recruits: they were going after them as players and probably lost track of the numbers assigned to them ages ago.

I spent a fair amount of time comparing the two lists on my computers and probably should've spend a bit more time on the modifiers I chose.

However, I think a 2nd year coach like Courtney Banghart will benefit a bit on the recruiting tale by having her prospects' ratings upgraded. Hey...look at the top talent we're pulling in! (Of course, Jersey Shore watchers like myself could've told you Destiny Adams was a catch!)

As for the Philly Belles, I highly doubt that organization is going to shake in it's boots and it probably tells me that they didn't play in tournaments associated with the ratings group.

Lastly, I'm scratching my head why ESPNw would drop a new set of 2021 rankings out a mere two months before 2021 signing day, when most of the prospects (save Fudd) have already committed. Seems a bit anti-climatic (and most certainly adds another set of data for compilers like me to add).

Anyways, I'll tweak the headers....

 

[Gamecockfan77]

Oh, Points Taken To Some Degree but I'll push back mildly in one regard.

Of course, UCONN, S. Carolina, Stanford, Notre Dame, Oregon State, etc. are all happy with their recruits: they were going after them as players and probably lost track of the numbers assigned to them ages ago.

I spent a fair amount of time comparing the two lists on my computers and probably should've spend a bit more time on the modifiers I chose.

However, I think a 2nd year coach like Courtney Banghart will benefit a bit on the recruiting tale by having her prospects' ratings upgraded. Hey...look at the top talent we're pulling in! (Of course, Jersey Shore watchers like myself could've told you Destiny Adams was a catch!)

As for the Philly Belles, I highly doubt that organization is going to shake in it's boots and it probably tells me that they didn't play in tournaments associated with the ratings group.

Lastly, I'm scratching my head why ESPNw would drop a new set of 2021 rankings out a mere two months before 2021 signing day, when most of the prospects (save Fudd) have already committed. Seems a bit anti-climatic (and most certainly adds another set of data for compilers like me to add).

Anyways, I'll tweak the headers....

Don't they generally update them after the summer every season?

 

[Dillon77]

Don't they generally update them after the summer every season?

Well, they do update them. As for a "set time," I think they do so when they have time (most of these organizations are pretty small).

The deal here is that ESPNw has switched from having Dan Olson from doing the ratings to a new group, Premier Basketball. So it's a whole different evaluator(s).

 

[visitingcock]

Well, they do update them. As for a "set time," I think they do so when they have time (most of these organizations are pretty small).

The deal here is that ESPNw has switched from having Dan Olson from doing the ratings to a new group, Premier Basketball. So it's a whole different evaluator(s).

I think Dan Olson is one of the four evaluators for Premier. Two other guys and one woman.